Internet Discus Sales

[White Worm]

I wanted to know what everyone likes to see on a web page when they are considering their discus purchases...and...how they would prefer seller conduct sales. I may have my own site one day so I would like to get opinions now. Who knows, I may sell a discus or two one day.
I will ask the questions and answer them with what I look for and expect but I would like everyone to give their ideas also. Please add something if I dont cover it.
Would you like to see fancy pictures of an adult discus and purchase juvies hoping they will turn out like this one perfect example?
or.....
Would you like to see the actual tanks with the fish in them that you are buying? Maybe see closeups?
Do you want to get what you pay for (size) or is a half inch smaller ok when you buy 3" fish (just an example, could be any size)?
Would you expect a large breeder/seller to know what size the fish are that they are selling.
or....
Would you just buy a fish small, medium or large?
How do you think forums and message boards affect sellers?
What exactly would make you think to yourself......this site seems reliable?
There are some sites I go to that dont even list the prices. Do you want to know right away or would you like to have to contact seller to find out?
What else do you expect or like to see?

My answers..
I would prefer to see the real deal. A fancy picture of an adult fish that is probably not the parent, has never been seen in person or is not even remotely related is mis-leading especially to new people to the hobby. The juvies could turn out to be something close or not even close. This is important if you are looking for certain characteristics for breeding or bringing in new stock. I want to see the parents picture and the tank of the juvies from the parents so I know what my chances are. I know that it will not be guaranteed but I will have a better idea. I want to see how they are kept, tankmates, other discus in the tank, reaction during feeding time, etc. It may be alot to ask but I have seen many great sellers do it here without taking too much extra time to make sure the customer service is there. Kenny for example, is not posting pics of Forrest's adults. He is showing what you are buying. I want to see if there are dark fish in the tank with mine or sick fish. Once I know a seller, I'm not as concerned but picking out in person is the best way.

[White Worm]

I would see a size and base my purchase and cost on that size and I would not expect a respected seller to sell me something that I did not ask for. If I wanted something smaller, I would pay less money for the smaller size. I dont expect every fish to be measured but a good eye is something I have seen most good sellers here have. I would like to see size (pretty close) and price clearly listed.
I think message boards like this are a great way to keep most in check. I know you will not be able to keep the larger importers and wholesalers in check but word of mouth can work wonders. To large importers, the small hobbyist is of no real concern because we dont affect the bottom line that much because we dont buy in bulk.

[White Worm]

I like to see a site that has nothing to hide and would gladly show you their set-ups and how they keep their fish. Of course, references are a good tool to use when making purchases off the internet no matter what you buy. I like a site that is easy to navigate also. I like to be able to see what I am buying and how much.
Anyone? :D

[B-O-F]

One of the contestants in the Discus growing comp has set up a webcam that can be seen all the time. How great would that be for selling fish. I could log on to your site, where you have a chat facility and say I want that one, second on the right and you could seperate it wile I watched.

Probably woldn't work for big sellers but ......

[Kindredspirit]

I want to see the parents picture and the tank of the juvies from the parents so I know what my chances are.

I agree with this 100%!



reaction during feeding time

I feel this is very important ~ just like a puppy, I would want the one that comes instantly to me and chews my pant leg, not the one that lags behind all the others;)

An aggressive, bright, eager discus esp at feeding times should tell the perspective buyer a lot in just a few seconds ~




Kenny for example, is not posting pics of Forrest's adults. He is showing what you are buying..


What you see is what you get ~ and this should be stated up front if not the case ~





picking out in person is the best way.


It really is the best way ~ not always practical, however ~ unless, of course you live near someone that has very cool fish:D

[AADiscus]

I can speak from experience here. When Andrew first setup our website we had prices and anything we could put on there. (adults, juvies, fry, etc.) However the problem you run into is that on prices you don't always have that strain available and people see prices and want that strain. I do like to see a picture of the parents (fancy :D) with a picture of THERE fry showing they are a breeder. I will always email someone picture(s) of certain fish that are current pictures if they request. You would do nothing but update your website everyday if you had everything on there. Personally, we do not have time to do that right now or you have to put on there what you think best fits for the time being. Also, if you don't put prices on there it also makes someone email or call you. It is better to me to do a one on one with someone because you can talk to them, find out how much they know about discus and answer any questions they might have also. It's better then someone calling saying I want to order 6 red melons and thats it. Then your fish are leaving your tanks going to someone you know nothing about.

I do like the web cam that is currently setup on one of the contestants tank. I think that would be great on a website. The down fall there is I would probably forget about it and you guys probably would get a big chuckle sometimes. Probably end up on you tube. lol

[GulfCoastDiscus]

As a seller,
I completely agree in posting pics of the actual fish available. I post pics of the whole tank and not just the best one in the tank. This way everyone can see the total health of the tank. I also try to update the pics regularly to see the growth.

The glass on my tanks may not always be cleaned but the fish gets their waterchange 2x a day.:)

-Daniel
Sample below
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q180/GCDiscus/00wb003.jpg

[Kindredspirit]

However the problem you run into is that on prices you don't always have that strain available and people see prices and want that strain.

If you don't have that strain available, then don't post it on the site? Or is this where you state, "you would always be editing your site on a continuing basis and who has time for that" comment? lol!

I got it I got it:o

[C_of_Discus]

Biggest thing is to have your site updated weekly. If you can spend time on Simply you should be able to update your site weekly or at least once a month. Have a date stamp. This is the most important thing IMO , Have sales everyone wants a sale and this creates buzz. Add new pics everyone want to look at the product.

This is your best marketing tool out there. Get someone to setup your site so you can make changes easily on your own. If the site has last updated 2 years ago i figure this person may not even be in business anymore. Also If i go to a site and then back next month and nothing has changed well after 3 or 4 visits I am never going back to that site.

I would rather have the shipping included in the over all price or package something up. Like 6 Discus @ $$ free shipping. Well the shipping isn't really free but tons of People myself included like the idea of free shipping.

Cheaper fish would mean more volume and more traffic. I would also rather pay less and have no guarantee on them arriving alive. Most hobbiest understand the chance they are taking with having fish shipped and paying shipping costs that amount to half the price of the fish maybe more.


If I were to lose 2 of 6 Discus at example $20 I would chalk that up to the cost of doing business. But if I was to lose 2 of 6 @ $ 45 I would be upset and maybe never order again.

I really believe the more you can get your product "Discus" to the average hobbiest the better the hobby is and the more interest more different ideas more sales more of everything that is good for the hobby.

[White Worm]

One of the contestants in the Discus growing comp has set up a webcam that can be seen all the time. How great would that be for selling fish. I could log on to your site, where you have a chat facility and say I want that one, second on the right and you could seperate it wile I watched.

Probably woldn't work for big sellers but ......
The webcams would probably work great. You could have individual cams on each large growout tank that you are selling from. The chat would be alot of work though because you would have to constantly be monitoring it. Maybe just post hours of chat operation daily?


I agree with this 100%!

I feel this is very important ~ just like a puppy, I would want the one that comes instantly to me and chews my pant leg, not the one that lags behind all the others;)

An aggressive, bright, eager discus esp at feeding times should tell the perspective buyer a lot in just a few seconds ~

What you see is what you get ~ and this should be stated up front if not the case ~

It really is the best way ~ not always practical, however ~ unless, of course you live near someone that has very cool fish:D
Behavior characteristics could mean the difference between getting a healthy discus and losing one shortly after arrival. Then, you have to hastle with replacements, money, shipping and then everyone is pissed.


However the problem you run into is that on prices you don't always have that strain available and people see prices and want that strain. I do like to see a picture of the parents (fancy :D) with a picture of THERE fry showing they are a breeder. I will always email someone picture(s) of certain fish that are current pictures if they request. You would do nothing but update your website everyday if you had everything on there. Personally, we do not have time to do that right now or you have to put on there what you think best fits for the time being. Also, if you don't put prices on there it also makes someone email or call you. It is better to me to do a one on one with someone because you can talk to them, find out how much they know about discus and answer any questions they might have also. It's better then someone calling saying I want to order 6 red melons and thats it. Then your fish are leaving your tanks going to someone you know nothing about.

I do like the web cam that is currently setup on one of the contestants tank. I think that would be great on a website. The down fall there is I would probably forget about it and you guys probably would get a big chuckle sometimes. Probably end up on you tube. lol
I agree that you should screen new hobbyists. At the level of a small breeder / seller, that seems to be appropriate. I dont think the larger importers or those doing it as a business worry to much about it. You can tell those who appreciate the welfare of their discus and those who dont. I've never ran a web site and dont know what is involved in constantly updating it. Is it more difficult than posting pictures and writing on simply? I figure if I'm on here 3 days a week, I could update my webpage unless it is a more difficult process. Time is a huge factor these days.


As a seller,
I completely agree in posting pics of the actual fish available. I post pics of the whole tank and not just the best one in the tank. This way everyone can see the total health of the tank. I also try to update the pics regularly to see the growth.

The glass on my tanks may not always be cleaned but the fish gets their waterchange 2x a day.:)

-Daniel

My point exactly, the overall health of the tank is an important part of this but many new hobbyists dont know and seem to take a shot in the dark. Dan, one day I'm going to figure out how you take such good photos. I have never seen anyone take such clear photos.


Biggest thing is to have your site updated weekly. Have sales everyone wants a sale and this creates buzz. Add new pics
This is your best marketing tool out there. Get someone to setup your site so you can make changes easily on your own. If the site has last updated 2 years ago i figure this person may not even be in business anymore.
I would rather have the shipping included in the over all price or package something up.
.
I agree, nothing worse than going to a site and seeing something you want and then noticing that is hasnt been updated for 2 years. Everyone loves a sale and shipping included does make things simple.

[mikesmac]

. Everyone loves a sale and shipping included does make things simple.

Hi Mikscus,

Just from a different perspective on this one point.... Sales?...... Usually if I see a sale I'm running in the other direction. A sale on Discus usually says to me that the best have been picked over and they need to get rid of the rest. I would rather pay more for one excellent discus than pay less for 10 mediocre ones.

Mike

[C_of_Discus]

Hi Mikscus,

Just from a different perspective on this one point.... Sales?...... Usually if I see a sale I'm running in the other direction. A sale on Discus usually says to me that the best have been picked over and they need to get rid of the rest. I would rather pay more for one excellent discus than pay less for 10 mediocre ones.

Mike


Exactly!

Thanks for making my point!

IMO People try to make Discus an Elite fish and charge accordingly . I think a sale on Quality Discus from a quality Breeder is never a bad thing.

They love the mystique of a hard to keep expensive fish. I have never been a breeder but I would have to believe that their Discus are not flying out of the tanks and they are making money hand over fist. Most are in to breeding just for the love and the ability to modify these fish "Colour" , Size, Shape etc...

The hobbiest is in it for the love of the fish the way they look the fun of maybe having them breed. I think there is a vast market for Discus that no one is tapping into. I have been in the Cichlid hobby for 20 years know many people that have kept hundreds of different types of cichlids but ask them if they ever tried Discus and 80 percent or more will say nope to hard to keep?

These are the people with 20 or more tanks in their homes thousands of dollars in fish.

[KJoFan]

Well I certainly don't have the answers but I do know that I really dislike looking at sites that haven't been updated in a couple years. So that's one thing to really stay on top of. As far as content of the site....Like has been mentioned I want to see what's available not what has been in the past or may be in the future. I might pick something out I want, only to find it's not really available. But, the question is how do you prevent all that from happening and still have a decent site? i would imagine the most useful option for everyone is just maintain a simple list if possible of your current stock and possibly pieces available? That way, depending on the size of your operation at least, people would have a pretty accurate idea of what's available. And as for visual effects...I like Dan's idea of shooting the whole tank rather than an individual fish. Or, do a combo of both. Show some whole tanks shots, as well as a few individuals for people to see that may not be familiar with a certain strain. It would show more detail I'd think.

I hope to someday be selling some of mine once I get to that point so this is an interesting topic, however one I haven't given much in depth thought to, hence the post that's more a stream of consciousness than anything. :)

[mikesmac]

Exactly!

Thanks for making my point!

IMO People try to make Discus an Elite fish and charge accordingly . I think a sale on Quality Discus from a quality Breeder is never a bad thing.



Sorry, but I think you missed my point. I have gotten fry from my discus and know that even from the best of them the fry produced can vary greatly. Out of a batch of hundreds sometimes only a few will be exceptional. That is the reality of it... not some perceived image out there for marketing purposes. The exceptional ones will rarely...if ever... make it into a "sale".

Mike

[KJoFan]

I think it depends on the intentions of the seller/breeder. I think exceptional discus can and do make it into a sale. If the seller is interested in only providing high quality discus then...they have to sell those exceptional ones or they won't have a good reputation. If they get one from a batch of fry that's perfect or next to it, sure they may keep it for their breeding stock, but then they may decide to sell one of their previous breeders. If it was good enough for the seller (assuming they provide quality) then...sure I'd probably buy it. Did I miss your point too? :o

[dpt8]

Mike, I really LOVE Dan's Gulf Coast websight.. especially his for sale page.. He even updates the pics of the fish he is selling periodically. That is what I love to see, and I have bought alot of fish from Dan based on the pics.. Also his reputation is such that people believe the fish are quality and those in the pics...

[DiscusOnly]

I don't buy discus every week (maybe once a year). That's a good thing cause Discus is an expensive hobby and the worse part. The better you do in keeping your discus healthy, the chance of getting new discus is nil unless you plan to expand every few months. Atleast that's my case. I manage to lose 1 and cull 2 of my 17 discus in the past 12 months.

I think the reputation and a group shot of the batch of discus is good enough for me. I know when a seller has hundreds of Discus to sell, tagging each individual is too time consuming. I like what I saw from Kenny's last shipment (too bad I was slow to the trigger and no room for larger Discus at this time but I would have no problem saying I want one of this and one of that). But for ordering a discus from a catalog picture? Sorry, that's not me. I would rather visit the lfs and and wait to pick out something that I like.

The whole idea about how much work it is get actual pictures up on the site is just not being professional. Maybe the seller doesn't have the right tool to managing updaing their stock on the website.

GulfCoastDiscus: Those are nice looking discus.:thumbsup:

[C_of_Discus]

Quality Discus are not the same for all people.

To most hobbiest it means healthy fish (no disease) fish that will grow and eat.


Quality to a breeder is a different thing like you said maybe 1 or 2 out of a hundred.

so the 98 you have that are not perfect "breeder Quality" lets say

could be sold for less making room for your 2 or 3 you want to raise on your own and breed \ show

Most People in the hobby would happily except the 98 out of the hundred that didn't make your grade.

[fredox]

Keeping an up to date list of stock and prices could be done fairly simply be posting a text file on the site that can be changed on a regular basis. As for the rest of the site keep it up to date and simple to navigate and I'm happy.

[mikesmac]

Did I miss your point too? :o

Kind of.....I didn't say they wouldn't sell the exceptional ones.... only that they usually are not going to be ones that are included in a a "sale". The exceptional ones are usually going to demand a premium no matter if they are the best of a group shipped in, the best of a batch of fry, or previous breeders. The only way they may slip through in a "sale" is if you purchase very small ones that it is impossible for even the breeder to tell what the quality will turn out to be.... and in this case you'll probably end up paying anyways because of the quantity you will need to buy....and grow out..... in order to get the 1 or 2 exceptional ones.

One side note also....Aside from the obvious basics...round body...not stunted... healthy.. etc. ...I have my own criteria based on what I like...... what is exceptional to me could be junk to someone else...and vice versa so sometimes you can get lucky that way. I know that if I have too many of the same thing they can be excellent quality and I'll still sell them off (or give them away) just to clear tank space..... but I'm not trying to survive as a business... and I don't ship. If you lived close to me you could get some great deals if you catch me at the right time. I accepted a long time ago that I was going to spend WAAAAY more than I would ever get back and have spent more on a single discus than a lot of hobbyists spend on their whole set-up...tank and all.

Mike

[alxjss]

Hi all. When i started looking for discus, i did a search. Saw many websites and their sponsers and I agree w/mikeus. I think a tank shot is great and a sep. shot of the fish u r buying. I like to see prices. I hate calling just for pricing. If i don't see the price, i won't inquire unless i like it sooo much i can't help myself. :p
I like a site that is run well, ie.. updates on fish sold, how many left
news about upcoming shipments and possible pics, like is done here from some sponsers. Maybe a video or two. It needs to be user friendly. Not too high tech. Some people don't get into cyberspace.:alien:
Lastly, when inquiring, u get good service from someone who cares, not just someone in a business making $$. This is just some of the things i can think of @ the moment.
thanks

[GrillMaster]

Hmmmmmmmm.... Mike....I personally wouldn't get any Discus from anyone, or web sites unless I knew them! I would however buy Discus from any of the sponsers here!! :)

Doesn't matter if they post prices, pics, or whatever. You for one know as well as I do that the best places to get Discus are right here on this forum!! :D

tc
Mark

[C_of_Discus]

I personally think http://www.sunrisetropicals.com has the model everyone should look at and copy.

has dates photos taken
has group shots
Has individuals and prices under them

Specials on all the time

Very well laid out

[Kindredspirit]

the best places to get Discus are right here on this forum!! :D



I would not go anywhere else ~ I did once and almost lost it all:(

[alxjss]

I personally think http://www.sunrisetropicals.com has the model everyone should look at and copy.

has dates photos taken
has group shots
Has individuals and prices under them

Specials on all the time

Very well laid out

I totally agree. Can't find too much more than that. Wonderful site. Spent about 45 min on the site just checking things out. Nice.....

[White Worm]

Hmmmmmmmm.... Mike....I personally wouldn't get any Discus from anyone, or web sites unless I knew them! I would however buy Discus from any of the sponsers here!! :)

Doesn't matter if they post prices, pics, or whatever. You for one know as well as I do that the best places to get Discus are right here on this forum!! :D

tc
Mark I agree Mark!
I see very good examples of how a site should be ran and how breeders, importers and sellers should operate just from this site. Sure makes things easy knowing that we have a large pool to choose from right here with little to no worries. Reputation goes a long way.


I personally think http://www.sunrisetropicals.com has the model everyone should look at and copy.

has dates photos taken
has group shots
Has individuals and prices under them

Specials on all the time

Very well laid out
I too consistently monitor Tony's site at sunrise tropicals. Real time photos of current stock and prices clearly listed. He keeps it pretty up to date.

[White Worm]

Hi Mikscus,

Just from a different perspective on this one point.... Sales?...... Usually if I see a sale I'm running in the other direction. A sale on Discus usually says to me that the best have been picked over and they need to get rid of the rest. I would rather pay more for one excellent discus than pay less for 10 mediocre ones.

Mike

I guess it depends on space and number of growouts. If you cull properly, there should be no reason to be selling crap or the picked over ones. I figure a sale could mean they just have too many of certain ones and may have to make room for new types. Look at Al, he isnt selling low quality, he is just getting over run with too many and that is our benefit. A hobbyist may have 5-6 breeding pairs and all of a sudden, you have 500-600 juvies to move in about 2 months. Sure, they all wont be perfect but I think after a proper culling, you should end up with a good number of quality discus that anyone would love to have in their tank, just maybe not enter into a competition. Most of us dont do that anyways. Reputation again is key.

[Rod]

Would you like to see fancy pictures of an adult discus and purchase juvies hoping they will turn out like this one perfect example? Yes
or.....
Would you like to see the actual tanks with the fish in them that you are buying? Maybe see closeups? Definately see the fish i am interested in purchasing.
Do you want to get what you pay for (size) or is a half inch smaller ok when you buy 3" fish (just an example, could be any size)? No, if the seller says 3" then i expect the smallest of the group to be 3".
Would you expect a large breeder/seller to know what size the fish are that they are selling. Yes
or....
Would you just buy a fish small, medium or large? that would be ok as well, afterall he has sent me photos of the actual discus and a decision can be based from there.
How do you think forums and message boards affect sellers? They affect them a lot, forums tend to be more about popularity than solid facts. If you can come across well on a forum, then you will do well. If you are not so adept at it, then you may find it difficult.
What exactly would make you think to yourself......this site seems reliable? Nothing would make me think that, i buy once, if i like i will buy again.
There are some sites I go to that dont even list the prices. Do you want to know right away or would you like to have to contact seller to find out? Prices are a guide only, being a wholesaler and importer i buy huge quantities of tropical fish on a regular basis and the price is based on quantity. Same as selling, if someone wants 5 or 6 discus i don't even entertain a discount, if someone wants 20 discus then the price is different. I'm happy to contact the seller.
What else do you expect or like to see? For me i like my questions answered honestly, if i get lied to, then i never buy again.

[April]

well..my website has a few articles and i have that i sell discus and a few pics. i dont have any updated stuff or price lists..as i dont have access to my website. most of my fish are sold locally..and the ones who i ship to i take pics of the fish. but i for sure send the fish id be proud to own. if they have issues i offer to replace or refund. no big deal..all i can do.
i find alot of times..theres fish i think are ahhh. so so . not amazing..but decent for hobbyists..and people come in and say wow..those are so nice . so it is all dependant on the buyer . id say for the most part..my fish are defnitely a notch up from what they see locally or in stores. when people do come in..i tell then nah..you dont want that one. i cant make myself bag up a fish i dont like. and if im shipping..i do the same. i wont put a fish in a bag i wouldnt want badly. id do the freezer bag first.
i only buy from people i spend time getting to know though and ask alot of questions. i also go by referrals or ask others who received if they were pleased. i usually ask brew or rod..lol. if they were happy..then..i know they were good. lol.
but thats more for me buying wholesale. of course when i buy wholesale..im buying fsh for me to keep or play with for longterm or til lthey are sold.
alot id say is dependant on personality of the seller. some toot their own horns..or money is their main drive..and some..are very modest and honest and more laid back. so good to spend some time talking on the fone..and emails for awhile.

[Greg Richardson]

Long ago I got fish for someone on here to hold for them due to where they lived. I told them I'd buy one fish to test his stock.
This person has a great reputation on here and no it's been years so I'm not going to reveal who the seller was it would be unfair to them now.


This person bought 2.5 inch fish.
Out of 13 fish only a few were 2.5.
I work hard for my money.
I expect you to deliver what you say you will.
If you are selling 2 to 3 inch fish for a price fine I know what to expect. But when you receive 2 inch fish and smaller when they suppose to be 2.5 inch you have just killed the chance of me ever buying or referring you ever again.
My money isn't off a tree.
I work hard for it.

BTW.
My last order from Dan was labeled at 3 to 3.5 inch fish.
That is EXACTLY what I got. The way it should be.

[Discus_KC]

I haven't updated my website but that has no bearing on anything as far as I'm concerned. I still breed fish and still have satisfied customers. I prefer people coming and hand picking out their fish. I want to know who is getting my fish, how they plan to care for them, and how knowledgeable they are. I've seen too many fish on this forum and others that looked great when they were purchased and then are destined to a horrible life because of poor care. There is a lot of time and TLC that breeders put into their fish.

We all need to get to know the people we may want to get fish from. I prefer phone calls versus someone just asking for Price list and availability. My reply response is "What are you looking for?" and call me at this number. If someone can't address me or at least tell me who they are, then I really doubt they are serious.

Jack

[KJoFan]

I don't think someone's lack of desire to call is an indication of being serious about their purchase or not. I'm not someone that likes talking on the phone, in fact I try to avoid it especially with people I don't know well or at all. And I'm not a big fan of walking into someone's house or store or what have you and have all the attention on me. But again...that has no bearing on my seriousness about what I'm doing. If I can get a pricelist and make my order without alot of personal contact, I will. Maybe that doesn't make me a very serious hobbyist...

I understand wanting to make sure someone has the know how to take care of the fish I just don't think it's fair to assume that because someone doesn't want to call you they aren't serious about what they're doing.

Of course that's only my perspective. :)

[White Worm]

I haven't updated my website but that has no bearing on anything as far as I'm concerned. I still breed fish and still have satisfied customers. I prefer people coming and hand picking out their fish. I want to know who is getting my fish, how they plan to care for them, and how knowledgeable they are. I've seen too many fish on this forum and others that looked great when they were purchased and then are destined to a horrible life because of poor care. There is a lot of time and TLC that breeders put into their fish.

We all need to get to know the people we may want to get fish from. I prefer phone calls versus someone just asking for Price list and availability. My reply response is "What are you looking for?" and call me at this number. If someone can't address me or at least tell me who they are, then I really doubt they are serious.

Jack
Just another example of a larger breeder that cares about the hobby, discus and customer service. Thats why you do as well as you do Jack. Great job. With your reputation, anyone should feel free to buy from you. I would and I know just about everyone who knows you would.


I don't think someone's lack of desire to call is an indication of being serious about their purchase or not. I'm not someone that likes talking on the phone, in fact I try to avoid it especially with people I don't know well or at all. And I'm not a big fan of walking into someone's house or store or what have you and have all the attention on me. But again...that has no bearing on my seriousness about what I'm doing. If I can get a pricelist and make my order without alot of personal contact, I will. Maybe that doesn't make me a very serious hobbyist...

I understand wanting to make sure someone has the know how to take care of the fish I just don't think it's fair to assume that because someone doesn't want to call you they aren't serious about what they're doing.

Of course that's only my perspective. :)
No worries, I too like to see some prices and I dont really care to chit chat on the phone. I like to type on simply but I'm just not a phone guy. Maybe send an email to Jack or any sponsor and tell them what you want, give your background and ask for prices per the size you are wanting. I do move on rather quickly though if I have to do too much work to find out what someone has. :o
Most are pretty good at responding pretty quick to an email though.

[White Worm]

Would you like to see fancy pictures of an adult discus and purchase juvies hoping they will turn out like this one perfect example? Yes
or.....
Would you like to see the actual tanks with the fish in them that you are buying? Maybe see closeups? Definately see the fish i am interested in purchasing.
Do you want to get what you pay for (size) or is a half inch smaller ok when you buy 3" fish (just an example, could be any size)? No, if the seller says 3" then i expect the smallest of the group to be 3".
Would you expect a large breeder/seller to know what size the fish are that they are selling. Yes
or....
Would you just buy a fish small, medium or large? that would be ok as well, afterall he has sent me photos of the actual discus and a decision can be based from there.
How do you think forums and message boards affect sellers? They affect them a lot, forums tend to be more about popularity than solid facts. If you can come across well on a forum, then you will do well. If you are not so adept at it, then you may find it difficult.
What exactly would make you think to yourself......this site seems reliable? Nothing would make me think that, i buy once, if i like i will buy again.
There are some sites I go to that dont even list the prices. Do you want to know right away or would you like to have to contact seller to find out? Prices are a guide only, being a wholesaler and importer i buy huge quantities of tropical fish on a regular basis and the price is based on quantity. Same as selling, if someone wants 5 or 6 discus i don't even entertain a discount, if someone wants 20 discus then the price is different. I'm happy to contact the seller.
What else do you expect or like to see? For me i like my questions answered honestly, if i get lied to, then i never buy again.
Thanks Rod, straight to the point!


well..my website has a few articles and i have that i sell discus and a few pics. i dont have any updated stuff or price lists..as i dont have access to my website. most of my fish are sold locally..and the ones who i ship to i take pics of the fish. but i for sure send the fish id be proud to own. if they have issues i offer to replace or refund. no big deal..all i can do.
i find alot of times..theres fish i think are ahhh. so so . not amazing..but decent for hobbyists..and people come in and say wow..those are so nice . so it is all dependant on the buyer . id say for the most part..my fish are defnitely a notch up from what they see locally or in stores. when people do come in..i tell then nah..you dont want that one. i cant make myself bag up a fish i dont like. and if im shipping..i do the same. i wont put a fish in a bag i wouldnt want badly. id do the freezer bag first.
i only buy from people i spend time getting to know though and ask alot of questions. i also go by referrals or ask others who received if they were pleased. i usually ask brew or rod..lol. if they were happy..then..i know they were good. lol.
but thats more for me buying wholesale. of course when i buy wholesale..im buying fsh for me to keep or play with for longterm or til lthey are sold.
alot id say is dependant on personality of the seller. some toot their own horns..or money is their main drive..and some..are very modest and honest and more laid back. so good to spend some time talking on the fone..and emails for awhile.
I think it is important to have integrity when selling anything, especially something as specialized as a discus. Thats where the hobby suffers I think is lfs selling whatever to whoever and then new hobbyists prove the "hard to keep" myth is true. Well, when you buy sick inferior fish, its probably going to happen 7 out of 10 times. Others may get lucky. Large wholesalers contribute to the lfs quality (good and bad). You just hope that a lfs has some idea of how to keep them until sold.


Long ago I got fish for someone on here to hold for them due to where they lived. I told them I'd buy one fish to test his stock.
This person has a great reputation on here and no it's been years so I'm not going to reveal who the seller was it would be unfair to them now.


This person bought 2.5 inch fish.
Out of 13 fish only a few were 2.5.
I work hard for my money.
I expect you to deliver what you say you will.
If you are selling 2 to 3 inch fish for a price fine I know what to expect. But when you receive 2 inch fish and smaller when they suppose to be 2.5 inch you have just killed the chance of me ever buying or referring you ever again.
My money isn't off a tree.
I work hard for it.

BTW.
My last order from Dan was labeled at 3 to 3.5 inch fish.
That is EXACTLY what I got. The way it should be.
Exactly, and thats why Dan is also one of the trusted here. I too would expect value with the money spent on discus. If someone is selling 2.0-2.5in discus, I wouldnt expect to get all 2.0in discus or any shy of 2in, maybe even a couple of slightly larger ones as a surprise would definately keep my return business. :)

[KJoFan]

No worries, I too like to see some prices and I dont really care to chit chat on the phone. I like to type on simply but I'm just not a phone guy. Maybe send an email to Jack or any sponsor and tell them what you want, give your background and ask for prices per the size you are wanting. I do move on rather quickly though if I have to do too much work to find out what someone has. :o
Most are pretty good at responding pretty quick to an email though.

I may have inquired once awhile back when I was first looking for quality discus with Jack and did receive an email list but I can't recall if prices were included or not. I think the introvert trait is something found rather often in our hobby. So if I can get done what I need to through emails and PMs I will. But I think at least on this site that can kind of be overcome as I would hope that if I were to inquire with Jack about getting fish from him he'd at least have an idea of the care I'd give them through this site. But I realize it's hard to get a feel for a person through the written word only. So, I do get where he's coming from I just...don't like the generalization that if someone's unwilling to pick up the phone and call that they aren't reputable. :)

[White Worm]

I may have inquired once awhile back when I was first looking for quality discus with Jack and did receive an email list but I can't recall if prices were included or not. I think the introvert trait is something found rather often in our hobby. So if I can get done what I need to through emails and PMs I will. But I think at least on this site that can kind of be overcome as I would hope that if I were to inquire with Jack about getting fish from him he'd at least have an idea of the care I'd give them through this site. But I realize it's hard to get a feel for a person through the written word only. So, I do get where he's coming from I just...don't like the generalization that if someone's unwilling to pick up the phone and call that they aren't reputable. :)
I get ya, I just think (dont know) that Jack may field many inquiries about stock and prices from those who arent on simply and dont have any idea what they are doing and probably arent very serious about it. That could be a big time waster and when someone cares about what they do, that screening process needs to be there. He probably deals more so with that issue I would think. I guess if someone is seriously interested, they will take the time to communicate their desires somehow. Sometimes I'm not as serious as I would like to be. Heck, I live right down the way from Kenny and I didnt get any discus. :( I have an empty tank and money to buy, just didnt get off my butt to do it. Now I gotts to wait, lol. :)

[KJoFan]

Yes, I'm sure you're right in that he fields many inquiries and needs some way to screen them. I wasn't really trying to fault his idea just...sticking up for those that aren't so willing to pick up the phone but are still serious about buying. And you're right, if I want it bad enough I'd make the effort. :) I would hope that if I emailed or PMed Jack about getting some fish though he might decide he knows me well enough to know the care level I'd give and hook me up. ;)

[White Worm]

Yep, I'd like to get hooked up with some of those passions when he gets them in the mood again. :D

[jeep]

Tony at Sunrise has an impressive web site. He is also in this full time and he has help. He also has some pretty high prices, which are fine because he has earned the right to sell what he sells. Tony is also an importer, not a breeder. Most breeders in this country work full time and are in this hobby part-time. Try working 8-10 hours per day then come home and do daily maintenance on thousands of gallons worth of tanks, feed the fish, make fish food, make special water for your breeders and then special food for their babies, then pay the electric company, the gas company and the water company, attend school plays, help deliver girl scout cookies, take the kids bowling, feed the cat and dog, blah, blah, blah... THEN sift through several hundred emails per week with the hope that you will have the opportunity to get up at 4am to bag and box fish in order to have them at the airport in time for same day delivery because FedEx has a 50/50 chance of destroying your shipment (at your expense), all for a $200 average order, lol...

Live streaming video? Daily updates of stock and prices? Chat? Free shipping? not gunna happen with a part-timer who delivers quality every time :D If you see those gimmicks then I suspect something's fishy with the whole deal :antlers:

My first Internet order was based upon what I read on the forums and the reputation the breeder had earned. I sent no less than 30 emails to this person and left no less than 20 messages on his answering machine before he got back to me. It was worth it :antlers:

[Discus_KC]

This whole thread has been a whole lot of broad generalizations.

Should I take offense? No...and I don't. But to clarify to Karen about my email reference.

The email has no subject line. The only words are

"Price list and Availability".

No thank you for you time or this is such and such with a name. Should I even open the email? Those are the ones I ask to call me. Not every person that inquires. If somebody sends me a email with some content I will answer.

So I apoligize to Karen if I offended her.

Jack

[KJoFan]

You certainly didn't offend me Jack. I was just...giving a voice to some of those possibly unread emails. ;)

[Discus_KC]

You certainly didn't offend me Jack. I was just...giving a voice to some of those possibly unread emails. ;)

Fair enough !! Just don't send me one without a subject line !! I won't open it

Jack

[KJoFan]

Ok, I'll make a big bold all caps one so I stand out...besides...you'd hook me up wouldn't you? :o

[April]

not even from me jack?lol. i blabber quitie well in emails..but i can understand karen..theres alot who do better with typing than fones including me. : )
there are alot of tire kickers though.

[White Worm]

Tony at Sunrise has an impressive web site. He is also in this full time and he has help. He also has some pretty high prices, which are fine because he has earned the right to sell what he sells. Tony is also an importer, not a breeder. Most breeders in this country work full time and are in this hobby part-time. Try working 8-10 hours per day then come home and do daily maintenance on thousands of gallons worth of tanks, feed the fish, make fish food, make special water for your breeders and then special food for their babies, then pay the electric company, the gas company and the water company, attend school plays, help deliver girl scout cookies, take the kids bowling, feed the cat and dog, blah, blah, blah... THEN sift through several hundred emails per week with the hope that you will have the opportunity to get up at 4am to bag and box fish in order to have them at the airport in time for same day delivery because FedEx has a 50/50 chance of destroying your shipment (at your expense), all for a $200 average order, lol...

Live streaming video? Daily updates of stock and prices? Chat? Free shipping? not gunna happen with a part-timer who delivers quality every time :D If you see those gimmicks then I suspect something's fishy with the whole deal :antlers:

My first Internet order was based upon what I read on the forums and the reputation the breeder had earned. I sent no less than 30 emails to this person and left no less than 20 messages on his answering machine before he got back to me. It was worth it :antlers:

Lol, you forgot the wife in there somewhere! :D

[Rod]

Fair enough !! Just di
Jack

I hear you Jack....lol. I may be worse, if it doesn't say discus in the subject line, and i don't recognize the sender, i hit the delete button. I give out my cell number these days, i think if the person is keen enough they will call otherwise its no biggie, there are so many time wasters tyre kicking i was too frustrated and dumped my website after a cpl of years. I'm a slow typer but a good talker, so i play to my strengths. Overall i think it works better for me, and i think thats the secret, you need to find what is comfortable for yourself.

Rod:)

[Discus-Hans]

Tony at Sunrise has an impressive web site. He is also in this full time and he has help. He also has some pretty high prices, which are fine because he has earned the right to sell what he sells. Tony is also an importer, not a breeder. Most breeders in this country work full time and are in this hobby part-time. Try working 8-10 hours per day then come home and do daily maintenance on thousands of gallons worth of tanks, feed the fish, make fish food, make special water for your breeders and then special food for their babies, then pay the electric company, the gas company and the water company, attend school plays, help deliver girl scout cookies, take the kids bowling, feed the cat and dog, blah, blah, blah... THEN sift through several hundred emails per week with the hope that you will have the opportunity to get up at 4am to bag and box fish in order to have them at the airport in time for same day delivery because FedEx has a 50/50 chance of destroying your shipment (at your expense), all for a $200 average order, lol...

Live streaming video? Daily updates of stock and prices? Chat? Free shipping? not gunna happen with a part-timer who delivers quality every time :D If you see those gimmicks then I suspect something's fishy with the whole deal :antlers:

My first Internet order was based upon what I read on the forums and the reputation the breeder had earned. I sent no less than 30 emails to this person and left no less than 20 messages on his answering machine before he got back to me. It was worth it :antlers:

The best post in this thread. Pitty Mikscus is living in California otherwise I would say come and work here for a month.......no 1 week is enough lol

I hope one day you got some Discus for sale, looking forward to that day.

We don't "update" our home page because the stock is always there.

Complains about Discus smaller as advertised, doesn't happen here because the smallest we import are 2.5"
You know what's funny with Discus people, if they talk about their Discus in their tanks, they are always smaller as they say.
If they buy Discus, they are always bigger as think they are :p

Hans

[Greg Richardson]

Hans.
Complains about Discus smaller as advertised, doesn't happen here because the smallest we import are 2.5"
You know what's funny with Discus people, if they talk about their Discus in their tanks, they are always smaller as they say.
If they buy Discus, they are always bigger as think they are



That is an old joke that has been around the forums for some time. Ha Ha.

You order 100 pounds of FBW and you get 95 pounds you think that's a joke? I don't think so.

[White Worm]

The best post in this thread. Pitty Mikscus is living in California otherwise I would say come and work here for a month.......no 1 week is enough lol

I hope one day you got some Discus for sale, looking forward to that day.

We don't "update" our home page because the stock is always there.

Complains about Discus smaller as advertised, doesn't happen here because the smallest we import are 2.5"
You know what's funny with Discus people, if they talk about their Discus in their tanks, they are always smaller as they say.
If they buy Discus, they are always bigger as think they are :p

Hans

I dont understand what you are trying to say but not everyone and not even many deal with the amount of "import" that you do so you are probably the exception. Most deal on a smaller level and should certainly have the time to concentrate on customer service. I guess it depends on where the most business comes from. Thats where you are going to concentrate your efforts. People want to see what they are getting and pay to get exactly what they want. If I ever do sell discus, I will show and sell exactly what I have with nothing to hide. :)

[Kindredspirit]

I sent no less than 30 emails to this person and left no less than 20 messages on his answering machine before he got back to

You must have patience of Jobe, Brian! You never considered going anywhere else after 30 emails and 20 messages? lol!

[jeep]

Nope, his name was Cary Strong and I wanted his fish, lol :D

[Discus-Hans]

Hi all,

Greg, I got the first post you made by email.
I know how to work with a tape measure believe me, but let me try to explain, we do whole sale, if we ship out it's 5 to 10 boxes a day.
We start packing around 3:00pm and have time to 7:00pm than we've to go to the FedEx to drop them off.
If we need 5 or 10 say 2.5" Discus, we open up a tank, there are between 100 and 180 2,5" Discus in a tank, the ones that are on the top, the most agresive eaters, are cought. And NO we don't put them on a ruler lol.
The one time we got FBW in was to give it a try I got in 200 lbs, do you think I check 200 lbs, it could have bine 190 I realy don't know.
I stopped feeding those btw. because after a week I had an explosion of snales in my systems that could only come from the FBW.
Same with Discus, if you get 40-80 boxes of Discus in, you realy don't count them.

Mikscus, my customer serves is one of the highest, I know for you hard to believe, but that's because you're not a customer, so you can't judge.
Me being on those forums is a kind of service to the "end ussers", any idea btw. why you don't see any of the bigger whole salers on the forums any more?????
If one of my resellers is involved in a discusion, I'm there for them.
And I've nothing to hide.

Hans

[Greg Richardson]

Hans.
Greg, I got the first post you made by email.

I should have left it up. LOL!
But hey trying to show some more grace and I see it didn't work.

That offer to come work with me for 2 hours still stands.

Then we will see if you value your money like the rest of us hobbyist who can only afford fish every once in a while.

That is what this is about. It's not about what you do.
The fish didn't come from you so give it a rest.


Because you don't count your fish has nothing to do with this.
You are free to do things the way you want to do them.
Works for you great. That is how you value your time/money great.
Don't expect others to do the same.

Anyone who sends me a batch of fish where the majority of them are under what the person was paying for is doing wrong.

There is NO grey area here.

Most people work to hard for their money.
Like I said you come work with me for two hours let alone a day you'll gain a whole new perspective on receiving what you pay for.

[Apistomaster]

Hi Greg,
It's been awhile, but when I advised you that the only albino Bushy noses I had at the time were very small did you feel like I made a fair representation? I have never sold them that small except those I sent you, with some trepidation, I might add. I was concerned with their survival rate shipping them at maybe 3/4 inches or less.
Happy new year,
Larry

[White Worm]

Hi all,
Mikscus, my customer serves is one of the highest, I know for you hard to believe, but that's because you're not a customer, so you can't judge.
Me being on those forums is a kind of service to the "end ussers", any idea btw. why you don't see any of the bigger whole salers on the forums any more?????
If one of my resellers is involved in a discusion, I'm there for them.
And I've nothing to hide.

Hans
You may have high customer ratings with those who you sell to like lfs's. The hobbyist is not your concern from what I have seen from your responses to people here. You seem to be in this for the money. We dont all have the freedom to choose from thousands of discus so we expect to get what we pay for. I'm not a customer so you are right, I dont know but I'm not impressed and I'm glad we have many choices with who we decide to use for our purchases. I would like to see how things are done in your discus world. That would definately be a highlight to see your facility regardless. :)

[Greg Richardson]

Hi Larry. Nope. In fact I requested them to be small.

Advice that came from someone I can't remember who their observations through out the years were the smaller they were the better cleaners they are thus the request.

I bought some from two of you and both purchases were requested to be small. Only lost a few and I expect that when that small.

You both did a great job!

In fact they are breeeding size now but I haven't stuck in a cave yet.