Can I treat in my planted tank? White Feces

[digthemlows]

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish/when and how they started

2 days ago two of my seven discus stopped eating, the turq is dark and still hasn't eaten while the pigeon came out and ate tonight. I feed live CBW, Frozen Bloodworms, and tetrabits (although the discus rarely touch the tetrabits). Now there is solid white feces coming from my pigeon

http://starboardbough.com/tmp/sickpigeon1.jpg

http://starboardbough.com/tmp/sickpigeon2.jpg


2. Symptoms = turning dark, not eating, clamped fins, white poop, and hiding

3. What medications/ treatments that you have already tried and results. Include dosages and duration of treatment.

Nothing yet, and I don't have a QT tank anymore, My son set it up with a red devil recently.

Tank/Water

4. Tank size and age, number and size of fish

Tank has been running for a few months.......72 gallon
6 discus, all juv.........1 2.5", 4 3.5", 1 5".....
2 Clown Loaches, 4 CoryCats, 2 VAE's, 5 rosy barbs, 3 Cardinals, 2 Rummy noses.

5. Water change regime/ how long has tank been running/ bare bottom or gravel/ do you age your water?

20% daily with 40% 1 or 2 times a week............no real aging has been needed.........Planted tank with silica sand.........this tank has been running for 2 months, although the filters, and driftwood, and even some water in the beginning are from my 55 gallon that ran for 15 years........

6 Parameters and water source;

- temp _83____

- ph __7.5___

- ammonia reading __0__

- nitrite reading ____

- nitrate reading _<.3___

- well water ____

- municipal water __yes__

7. Any new fish/plants added recently.......2 Corycats added a week ago.

[judy]

That looks a lot like tapeworm, which I had not long ago. Prazipro, if you can get it. Follow bottle directions, works like a charm, doesn't damage plants or biolfilter.

[digthemlows]

The feces did break up after he/she swam around for a while and it really broke into very small almost slime...........I saw another guy a month ago with the clear/white stringy feces, but it only happened once and then he started eating and pooing good again..........I'm worried about treating for Tapeworm when it could be hex?? Any other tell tale signs? Otherwise I'll grab some prazipro tonight and go for it!

[Harriett]

Here's how they look, from my experience:
HEX poop looks roughly cylindrical, is whitish/ light grey, is sort of segmented like little sausages strung together. You almost always see one poop coming out at a time. The white is actually stomach lining being evacuated.
TAPE WORM: you would see FLAT VERY white worms [really flat like tape] and you can expect to see possibly LOTS of worms trying to be passed at the same time---it is pretty alarming to see.
Prazi is easily tolerated by discus. I'd try the prazi first from what I am seeing of your photo; if you get worms within 24 hours [usually sooner], be certain to retreat in about 10 days. If on the other hand you treat and get NO worms, give them a little rest and do a 3 day Metro treatment. Do you know how to do Metro?
Does that help?
Harriett

[judy]

Give them a week before you do the Metro treatment--- FYI Hole N Head Guard combines metro, salt, and acriflavine (which is used for fungal infections), dissolves easily and instantly, and was tolerated well by my tank-- both fish and plants.
I gave the tank a Prazipro treatment, week-long rest, and the Hole N Head treatment which they;ve just finished, and now I hope I have rid the tank of both tapeworm and the hexamita that one of them was showing all the signs of...
metro, I *think*, also handles camallanus and capilleria, two other common worm infestations (someone correct me here if I'm wrong on this, because I may be!)

[pcsb23]

Metro will not deal with camallanus and I do not think it will deal with capillera either. Flubendazole will deal with both, and fenbendazole will deal with the capillera and other worms too, it may deal with camallanus too but take that with caution. I have no direct experience with levimasole but believe it too deals with these worms.

[Mick B]

Hi,

I tend to agree, treat for round worms 1st, if not, then treat with Metro for Hex.

But (IME) if fish are eating, then use medicated beefheart to get meds into fish, as dosing a planted tank, potentially for 5 to 7 days (if Metro/Hex) will screw your plants.

If they are not eating, then no option unless you can put all in QT/Hospital/BB

HTH, Cheers, Mick B

[judy]

levamisole works on camallanus and capilleria?

[pcsb23]

levamisole works on camallanus and capilleria?
Yes I believe so.

[judy]

So I have some medicate food with parzi, metro and levamisole, and am feeding (to those who will eat) in conjunction with heavy metro treatment (the hole N Head does not seem to have done the trick, so after three days rest, I'm back at it again...this time, heavy duty straight metro)

[senso]

Increase the temp to 90 to 92 if you have not done so. Most heat tolerant plants (anubias, Crypts, Java fern) will be okay for a few days

[digthemlows]

Quick update, I did a huge water change 2 days after my initial post and my turq that was dark and hiding came out and started eating, the pigeon hasn't had any poo problems either but I found prazipro yesterday and put 3.5 teaspoons in my 72 gallon tank.......everyone ate this morning but I didn't see any worms anywhere...........What are folks suggestions for the treatment? I was thinking of doing 50% waterchanges every other day with 1 teaspoon of the PP each time for the next 8 days........

[judy]

Thanks, Senso-- I bumped up the temp at treatment start Friday night to 92, which seems to be as high as both heaters can manage. I'm told I should keep it up for a week or so after treatment to let the fish get back some appetite and energy... I hope the plants don't cook!
Digthemlows-- I just followed the directions on the Prazipro bottle. Worked for me. Tapeworms gone.
Hex and spironuclea a whole 'nother issue, of course.

[senso]

Judy

I think you will be pleasantly surprised. Depending on the plants you have, a week of the heat will not affect anubias, crypts, some echindodorus, or java ferns. I think you will be amazed with theresponse from the fish. Let us know

Regards
Rossano

[judy]

That pretty much lists all my plants, senso, except for the lotus, which keeps blooming on me, the val, and the java moss. Only a couple of the eight fish have been showing signs of hex (or spiro). and while the other six are active as ever in the heat, these two are still not responding to food. They look interested-- but they're still not eating. That's on the evening of day three of the full metro treatment plus heat. Once i do the WC tomorrow AM, and keep the heat up, and return them to regular food rather than the medicated stuff they've been getting-- well, we'll see. I hope they pull through-- they've got the best shapes of the bunch!
It's so depressing when the hobby that brings you joy begins to cause you such worry and stress...

[digthemlows]

One of my newer guys that I didn't even think was sick was passing quite a few tapeworms this morning...........no need for pictures, it was obvious what it was.........funny though, he was eating and growing well and I would have never thought he had any......I think I'll do one more treatment in a week just to be safe...........

[digthemlows]

my two stunted "rescues" are now passing lots of worms (no wonder they are stunted). The prazipro says to do a teaspoon for every 20 gallons. It says "a single treatment lasting 5-7 days is normally suffecient. Retreat as neccessary, but no more than once every 3-5 days." What????? Should I treat again?? I did a 50% water change on Sunday and cleaned and replaced the filter sponges and haven't done a water change since. Anyone have suggestions?

[digthemlows]

Oh and I'm pretty sure my cories and/or loaches ate the passed worms, is that bad??

[judy]

I'd do a second treatment a week after the first. The worms will have been dead when your cories and laoches ate them, so that shouldn't be a problem-- I think.

[pcsb23]

Oh and I'm pretty sure my cories and/or loaches ate the passed worms, is that bad??Other than making some people go "icky" no it's not bad :)

For worm treatment I normally re-dose after a week.

[deanne]

Question- where does one get these medications? I have just treated with those fizz-tabs called Parasite Clear, which has several of these meds in it. But it looks like you guys are using pure meds and more measured doses, so you must be buying them individually?

Everybody looks okay now but I want to be ready...

[deanne]

Nevermind, I found the stickies with great info...
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=34834

[BSW]

I've used PraziPro several times, in Angelfish tanks and now once in my Discus tank. I love the stuff. Didn't hurt a darn thing, Corys, Neons, Ottos, Loaches, filters, OR the plants. Doesn't foul the tank, etc... Fish don't seem to go through any stress while being medicated. BUT, I'm not sure that it is the best broad spectrum wormer !
I think it might be more limited in what it will kill.
B