Please help! Discus not getting better!

[DiscusKeeper403]

Hi,


I have a 50 gallon Discus tank, it is bare bottom and cleaned 30 percent every day. I have 5 Discus in the tank. About a month ago I noticed my Discus stopped eating, and hasn't done so up to this day. He looks normal, but pretty skinny. I see him pass bowl movements every once in a while but it looks like it is all pus. I started treating the tank with both Praziquantal and Flagyl. I found out it was probably bacterial, so I started just using Flagyl instead. The temperature is at 30 degrees. I have about 200 mg per 10 gallons in the tank. It looks like another Discus has the same thing now, won't eat. It's very frustrating, because it's been a good 3 weeks that I have been treating the tank with no progress. I really need some advice before it is too late! Please help!

Forgot to mention, water stats are fine Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0.


Thought I would add, the Discus in my display picture doesn't look like that anymore. For some reason he always has more black spots. He is a pigeon blood, so I guess this is normal?

[GulfCoastDiscus]

Hi,
Sorry to hear your problem. More than likely these fishes had this issue before you got them. Metro for 3 weeks does not sound good. I hate to say this but the chances of them becoming 100% better is slim to none.
I don't think metro is the choice of med for this problem.

Call me and i can better explain it to you. 2816330966

Daniel

[Moon]

Is Flagyl the same as Metro?

[GulfCoastDiscus]

Is Flagyl the same as Metro?

Yes,
Metronidazole is fish grade and Flagyl is human grade.

[Lee C]

Temperature needs to be higher 32 to 33C or 90 to 92F.
High temps saves discus. Also they like the salt.
If that doesn't work, not sure what to tell you.
Lee

[Graham]

I found out it was probably bacterial, so I started just using Flagyl instead.

How was this decided...white mucus being passed can be from any number of internal problems, anything that upset the gut. The Metro/Flagyl has a very narrow range of what it affects and it's obivously not working as Daniel has mentioned. External parasites can up set a fish to the point where it's passing mucus..................

So, how about going in another direction and shot gunning the tank with something like Quick Cure. The F&MG mix has a wide kill zone for external parasites...do some water chnages and the follow the directions........it may help

G

[brewmaster15]

HI ,
Can you post some pics please?

thanks,
al

[DiscusKeeper403]

Hey guys,

I talked to a very knowledgeable friend today. We discussed the issue, and I believe we have figured out a new treatment that could possibly help.

Thanks again for all the ideas so far!

DL


P.S. I know you guys where saying that salt is good, but will Epsom salt be okay? I know it is safe for fish but I am not sure if this would be better then normal non-iodized salt in this instance...

[Graham]

Hi Two very different things........ Epsom salt/magnesium sulfate will have no effect on any bacteria or parasites in any way. It's only good for some bloat or constipation.

Normal salt and you can use any kind, iodized included, at a 0.3% level it'll affect some parasites and helps with stress

G

[DiscusKeeper403]

Hi Two very different things........ Epsom salt/magnesium sulfate will have no effect on any bacteria or parasites in any way. It's only good for some bloat or constipation.

Normal salt and you can use any kind iodized included at a 0.3% level affect some parasites and helps with stress

G

So Iodized salt is fine???


I have some cooking sea salt that says its iodized, and epsom salt.

[judy]

I don't think iodized salt is OK. Everything I have ever read says not to use it.

[DiscusKeeper403]

I don't think iodized salt is OK. Everything I have ever read says not to use it.



Yes, same here. This is the first time I have heard it is fine to use...

[judy]

Then don't use iodized salt.

[Graham]

Iodized salt is prefectly fine to use...it is one of the oldest myths in the fish hobby. Aquarium salt is the biggest rip off in the hobby. Remember that it's iodide and not iodine that added to salt....but it really doesn't matter at the levels that we us it at. Swabbing a sore on a fish adds more iodine to a tanks water than adding salt ever would. It also will not affect a fish what so ever.........


USA contains 77 milligrams of potassium iodide per kilogram of table salt. That means the potassium iodide content of table salt is only 0.0077%, or 77 parts per million in the salt. Then when, lets say, 0.3 weight % table salt is added to a pond, the potassium iodide content of the pond will be 0.003 times 0.0077%, or 0.000023%, or only 0.23 ppm. In the MSDS for aquatic toxicity of potassium iodide, the EC50 for shellfish is given as 2.7 mg or 2.7 ppm, the EC50 for protozoa is given as above 40 mg/l or over 40 ppm. Russ Werner....From a thread on Koivet

The only thing to look out for with salt is the anti-caking agent YPS, Yellow Prussiate of Soda. When expoused to sufficient amounts of UV rays it generates cyanide levels in the water. This can be toxic.

PS search around this web site, it'll say the same thing

[DiscusKeeper403]

Thank you very much for the clarification Graham! I will look at that salt I have again, and if it's under 0.3% then I will use it for the Discus. I have put him in quarantine, and he seems fine so far, and hopefully will make progress in his new tank. Temperature so far is 31 degrees, but i'll increase it a few degrees slowly tomorrow and the next day.

[Graham]

Hi You mis-read me a bit on the salinity thing..........Salt is salt/NaCl, it doesn't have percentages as to it's salinity, only it purity.

Pure salt water is 3.0% salinity...what we use is well be low that. 1Teaspoon per gallon will give roughly a 0.1% salinity...3 teaspoons per gallon will give 0.3% obivously. Most fish will have no problem with a salinity of 0.3% .

Plants will not like it

G

[DiscusKeeper403]

Oh okay, thanks again Graham.

He is in a quarantine tank, so no plants in it at the moment. Do you think I should be aiming for a higher salinity level (.3% like you said) or a lower one?

[Graham]

Salt doesn't wack as many parasites as a formalin and malachite green combo does ...if it were me I'd be going the F&MG shot route and see what happens

Do' not use Formalin based meds with salt at or above 0.3% salinity. It's been shown to irritate fish

[DiscusKeeper403]

I am so confused to be honest with you... I am not sure if it's parasitic or bacterial, and I got two different answers coming from two completely different people...


I added salt, at a .02% level. Temperature is 33 degrees, and I just finished a 50 percent water change.

[DiscusKeeper403]

Hey guys,


Sadly the Discus in question died last night :( I had a feeling it probably wouldn't make it. I wish I took better action quicker, and had seek more advice earlier!


I wanted to treat my main tank just as a follow up. Two of my fish pass normal bowl movements, but both eat less vigorously then before. One of them is a baby. He is showing good coloration. The other fish boss him around a little, but he seems okay. The other fish is the one in my avatar. He has gotten a little bit skinnier. He is a pigeon blood, but his black dotting has gotten worse. Before he showed less, although it would go and reappear, etc. Should I be worried again? Is this linked?

I have never had so many problems with fish. I believe it was because I made the mistake of not quarantining them. Something that will never happen twice.

I got some salt, and some NoxIch (Malachite green is the active ingredient.) I wanted to grab some Kanamycin, to use with the Metro, just incase this is something internal. But, they had none in. I got Sulfathiazole instead. I was told it should do the same thing.

Do you think it is fine to mix all these medications? I got something for both internal bacterial and internal parasitic. Should I treat my main tank as a precaution?

Thanks again,

Connor

[judy]

Throwing all kinds of meds at them is only going to worsen your problem. You need to identify what's wrong and treat that. If you can't identify the problem, then get your water paramters in shape, filter out existing meds with carbon, do very frequent water changes until the salt you put in is gone, and start fresh. Set up a series of medication regimens and follow them ONE AT A TIME, with breaks in between.
You're just going to stress the fish out even more if you flail around like this.

[DiscusKeeper403]

Hi,


I quarantined the fish that was sick. Salt only went into the quarantine tank. My water parameters are fine thanks, I got 0 for everything and a Ph of 7.5.

I do 30 percent water changes daily, and medication put in was metro. I haven't added any of that for a few days, and have already done water changes, so it should be all gone. I will do another water change tomorrow just incase.


Does the new information listed still hint at internal parasitic? It was only the one fish pooping what looked to be puss. What do you guys think I should start with?


I will add salt tomorrow, and wait for what you guys suggest to start with first.

[Discus_adictus]

Hey guys,


Sadly the Discus in question died last night :( I had a feeling it probably wouldn't make it. I wish I took better action quicker, and had seek more advice earlier!

I wanted to grab some Kanamycin, to use with the Metro, just incase this is something internal. But, they had none in.


Sorry to hear about your loss Connor, I'm not sure if it's a good idea to raise the temp to 33C since you are not certain if youre discus has bacterial or parasitic infection. I understand higher temperature sometimes promotes faster bacterial multiplication. Unless you're certain the discus has internal problem then you may increase the temp.

Jeremy