Filter not necessary??

[thomasfoo]

Hi, I'm Thomas from Malaysia, newbie, my first post. Happy new year!

I just retired and want to raise The Majesty again with all the free time now. (I had very bad experience with them in late 60s). I had just acquired four 50-gal tanks and doing nothing with them at the moment, just lie empty until I feel confident to start.

I went to a reputable breeder recently to ask what filter system I shud set up. To my astonishment he said no need to install any filter at all, just do 70% water change everyday, bare bottom, no plant.

Question: Can it be as simple as that? Appreciate your opinion/advice.

PS: BTW I intend to stock only one tank with a dozen or more juvi and the other 3 tanks for water storage/ageing.

Thomas Foo

[RyanH]

Depending on how heavily you stock, you may be able to get away with it if you do 1 or 2 huge water changes everyday. But why would you want to? Sponge filters are cheap.

[esp_discus]

sponge filters are the best. are cheap easy to keep and very efective. you only need a sponge and a air bomb.
how ever you need to do 50% w/c every day to have good fishes;)

Ps: excuse my english:D. i don´t know if its water BOMB or PUMP how ever :D

[thomasfoo]

Thanks. Is the sponge filter also double as the bio-filter? Will it be effective with massive water change daily? I mean the bacteria will not survive from massive w/c, isn't it? That guy showed me his tanks. No filter.

[Tropical Haven]

All I use is sponge filters in all of my tanks because it is the easiest form of filtration plus it doesn't create a current.

[RyanH]

A sponge filter's primary function is biofiltration. I run mine with a lower airflow to avoid it being used as a mechanical filter.

You are correct, the bacterial colony will not be as strong because you are removing most, but not all, of the food source (ammonia/fish waste) when you do massive water changes.

[Seecher]

Hi, I'm Thomas from Malaysia, newbie, my first post. Happy new year!

I just retired and want to raise The Majesty again with all the
free time now. (I had very bad experience with them in late 60s). I had just acquired four 50-gal tanks and doing nothing with them at the moment, just lie empty until I feel confident to start.

I went to a reputable breeder recently to ask what filter system I shud set up. To my astonishment he said no need to install any filter at all, just do 70% water change everyday, bare bottom, no plant.

Question: Can it be as simple as that? Appreciate your opinion/advice.

PS: BTW I intend to stock only one tank with a dozen or more juvi and the other 3 tanks for water storage/ageing.

Thomas Foo

Greetings Thomas,

You asked for opinions... so here it is, for what it's worth.

I believe we are all stewards on this planet we are in charge of
caring for not only other animals but all that is alive and
inanimate, it is a privilege and responsibility. That being said, I
believe keeping discus fish, our beloved pets, in a glass box desert
with 70% daily water changes is cruel and unusual punishment.
We should try to provide for them natural habitat that is
appropriate for pets we should want them to feel comfortable and
secure.

Exploiting any animal or resources without good stewardship is
pure greed, in my opinion.

Why not try to have a balanced, well planted aquarium for your
discus to breed in. That in itself would be good for your discus
and also good for your sales, distinguishing you our from the
hoard of "feedlot" breeders. Just a thought.

Good luck with your project. :)

[thomasfoo]

Scott, Ryan: Thanks for the input.

Seecher: Points taken. Totally agreed that environment as close to the natural habitat is most desirable (or humane :p ) for our little friends, but after reading through this forum, BB is the recommendation by most experts if we want them to stay healthy. But u got a point here. I will try planted tanks once I'm more confident and experienced. Cheers :)

[RyanH]

If you own a Husky, would you put a mural of the Alaskan wilderness in your backyard so he feels more comfortable when he does his business?

No. Why? Because the dog couldn't care less. What does he care about? Being fed, loved, and cared for.

It's the same thing with fish. They couldn't care less what kind of decorations you have in the tank. They care about good food and clean water. That's it.

When I first started in this hobby I had a beautiful showtank full of half-dead Discus. Many didn't make it at all. When I finally got rid of all the crap, the fish thrived. Go figure.

Decorations are for people. The fish do not care.




Greetings Thomas,

You asked for opinions... so here it is, for what it's worth.

I believe we are all stewards on this planet we are in charge of
caring for not only other animals but all that is alive and
inanimate, it is a privilege and responsibility. That being said, I
believe keeping discus fish, our beloved pets, in a glass box desert
with 70% daily water changes is cruel and unusual punishment.
We should try to provide for them natural habitat that is
appropriate for pets we should want them to feel comfortable and
secure.

Exploiting any animal or resources without good stewardship is
pure greed, in my opinion.

Why not try to have a balanced, well planted aquarium for your
discus to breed in. That in itself would be good for your discus
and also good for your sales, distinguishing you our from the
hoard of "feedlot" breeders. Just a thought.

Good luck with your project. :)

[White Worm]

You can worry about the show tank when you have adults. They will grow better, larger and healthier without all of the fancy stuff. Dont for one minute think that your fish are sad because they dont have a plant in the tank. My discus are happy and healthy no matter what I put in the tank. Decore is for the human eye. Mine dont need to FEEL secure. As soon as I get near the tank, they all come right up for FOOD!

[Graham]

Lets make the distinction between man made varieties and wild caught species.

The Smarties colours have never seen a leaf, a piece of wood or tannic water; they couldn't care less that they're in a glass box...they know nothing else.

Where as, a wild, IMO, needs cover, a sense of security, even if it's a bunch of plastic plants,

EDIT this applies to a lot of different fish not just discus...............

Ryan, I'm going to play ''devils advocate'' ;) ; is it possible that when you started you knew a whole lot less than you did when you took the stuff out of the tank. A well maintained tank with gravel and plants is not hard to keep.............

''...started in this hobby I had a beautiful showtank full of half-dead Discus....''

[RyanH]

This pair didn't seem to mind the lack of rocks and plants in their tank. In fact, if there was any malcontent whatsoever, these pics would not have been possible.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=51719

How was this possible?

good water + good food = happy fish:)

Edit:

Of course it's possible to keep Discus in a planted tank. We wouldn't have a section here on it if it wasn't. Is it a good idea for someone who knows little or nothing about how to keep them properly? Nope. That's a recipe for failure.

[judy]

My husky would not have cared a whit about a mural of the Alaskan wilderness-- but he was happiest romping in lots of real snow and plenty of cold weather (he used to find the last patch of snow in the shade in the spring and curl up to sleep on it!).
Tank-bred domestic discus may not "know" anyhting but glass boxes-- but I submit there's genetic encoding in there that loves some wood and plant material around. Mine like their plants. They swim in and out of them, they browse a little on them, they cruise around the driftwood. They explore, they poke around, they chase each other through the amazon sword leaves. Sterile surroundings are inhumane treatment, no matter how tiny the brain being cooped up.
And I think the fish are far more beautiful and interesting to watch in an aesthetic, sorta-natural environment.

[Graham]

good water + good food + security = happy fish;)

who said every situation is or was the same....a fish cowering in a corner in a glass box = stress :)

[RyanH]

Too often we find people here putting three half dead, runted fish they bought from a pet store into a barebottom tank and then wonder why they cower in the corner until they die of a stress-related disease.

This is then used as an excuse to not run a barebottom tank.

If it's done right and you start with a good size group of quality Discus, this will be the result:

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?p=432383#post432383

Would this group look great in a planted tank? Hell yes! That is exactly what I'll do with them as soon as they're big fat 7" adults. For now, they couldn't care less if their only cover is two sponge filters. Give them hiding places and they'll certainly hide. Give them a good start in life and they'll reward you with this. :)

[White Worm]

I have had the same 8 discus in a bb, plain tank with sponge filters and I have added driftwood..then some potted plants...then some more plants on the driftwood (for me to look at of course). I have not seen a difference in their behavior one way or the other. Mine dont hide. Depends on size of the discus I think....If you give them something to hide behind, they will.
I think the fish are far more beautiful and interesting to watch in an aesthetic, sorta-natural environmentIts still more of a human reaction than cruelty. Doesnt sound cruel to keep a fish in nice clean water and feed them better than most humans. :o I think there is nothing wrong with setting up a show tank but use adults.

[GrillMaster]

Hi, I'm Thomas from Malaysia, newbie, my first post. Happy new year!

I just retired and want to raise The Majesty again with all the free time now. (I had very bad experience with them in late 60s). I had just acquired four 50-gal tanks and doing nothing with them at the moment, just lie empty until I feel confident to start.

I went to a reputable breeder recently to ask what filter system I shud set up. To my astonishment he said no need to install any filter at all, just do 70% water change everyday, bare bottom, no plant.

Question: Can it be as simple as that? Appreciate your opinion/advice.

PS: BTW I intend to stock only one tank with a dozen or more juvi and the other 3 tanks for water storage/ageing.

Thomas Foo

Hi Thomas! Welcome to "SD"

This is what I would do if it were me...

I would set the 4 tanks up BB with 2 sponge filters in each tank. They are fairly cheap. Better having some bio filters than none IMO.

Put a half dozen juvies in each tank, feed em alot an change the water everyday. In a year or so out of 24 Discus you will more than likely have some pair off.

You can get cheap plastic cans or barrels to age water in. This way your tanks are holding fish and not being wasted on aging water.

Good luck!

tc
Mark

[thomasfoo]

Thank you everyone for the kind advice which I had based on to set up this first tank yesterday.

- 2 sponge filters, one at each corner
- 1 artificail potted plant to please the eye and for the fish to hide but alas they prefer the filter
- 1 airstone
- 1 power pump for w/c
- some “test” fish from LFS to cycle the tank, meanwhile 70% water change daily (ya ya I broke the rules but couldn't wait to start :) but the fish are doing fine so far :))

Depends on the outcome I will eventually stock the other tanks (Mark :p )

Until I figure out how to insert foto in this forum, the tank set up foto is here http://pengsan.fotopages.com "My New Friends"

Wish me luck.
Thomas

[renae]

Looks good Thomas,I wish you lots of luck with them.

[tonymaccs]

Hi Thomas,
Good luck in your retirement and with your discus. It was good to read your posts about travelling between Guangzhou, HK, and Macau. I have travelled those routes quite a few times- makes me think about going back again.
Tony

[Kindredspirit]

If you own a Husky, would you put a mural of the Alaskan wilderness in your backyard so he feels more comfortable when he does his business?


We have a Husky.:) He has got to have that snow and really cold weather or he won't thrive!

NOT!;)


No. Why? Because the dog couldn't care less. What does he care about? Being fed, loved, and cared for.

Exactly. Raja could care a less if it is 50 degrees here or 110!




They care about good food and clean water. That's it.

:D:D

[RyanH]

Good luck Thomas. Post as questions arise. :)

[GrillMaster]

Looks good! Put a root tab in that pot o swords. :)

Lots of food an lots of water changes an they will do fine for you!

tc
Mark

[brewmaster15]

Thomas,
To answer your original question... yes.its that simple... and in your part of the world...thats how most are in fact raised... and it works perfectly Fine there.:)

Graham,

Lets make the distinction between man made varieties and wild caught species.

The Smarties colours have never seen a leaf, a piece of wood or tannic water; they couldn't care less that they're in a glass box...they know nothing nelse.

Where as, a wild, IMO, needs cover, a sense of security, even if it's a bunch of plastic plants,
If you are ever down in CT, please stop by here .... and we'll see if you leave here with a different opinion of what a wild "discus" needs . :D

hth,
-al

[thomasfoo]

Thanks again everyone.
Tony: When u go back to HK/Macau/GZ again, don't forget to check out the discus there. I will :)
Thomas

[Don Trinko]

I would have a mechanical filter to remove some of the suspended particles just to make the water clearer. ( the fish might not care but I do) For those who do massive WC each day I doubt that the biofilter gets much to eat. Don T.

[GrillMaster]

For those who do massive WC each day I doubt that the biofilter gets much to eat. Don T.

I dunno Don...You just stuff massive amounts a food in the tank durin the day and they are crappin as fast as you can feed em, I dont think that bio filter will be deprived to much by the end of the day...;) :D

tc
Mark

[Don Trinko]

I've been wrong before, just ask my wife! Don T.