Heat - a miracle of nature

[senso]

Hi all

I have had a few hours to spare the last few days, and reading posts, I have noticed that hex is a recurring issue with discus- white feces, cloudy eye, inactivity, sometimes little eating.
Having lived in the US for a number of years, I know we are prone to seek the cause - we analyze, diagnose and rescribe a medication.

Well next time before throwing in antibiotics, consider heat.

In the past 19 months, twice I have been struck with an affliction in my discus tanks, that my eye would determine as hex. Well there are the drugs available to keep any rock star discus on a high, and there is heat. I keep a large show planted show tank at about 82 to 84 (28C). Well, when the stakes have been down I have increased the temp to 88 to 90. (31 to 32C).

Within days you will see the difference. Fish are vibrant, brighter in color, hungrier (increased metabolism), eyes less cloudy.

Please share your won expereince in terms of heat, and using this as a first step in cure rather than meds.

Rossano

[Diamond Discus]

Shorter life span

[senso]

Hi Sue

Not sure if I follow. Would meds be a better first step than heat for a few days?

[Al M.]

heat and salt will help cure alot of ailments when caught in the early stages,atleast IMO..

I think what Sue means is shorter life span if you keep discus in high heat permanently rather than A short term remedy.....

[ShinShin]

For years this debate has been going on with serious discus keepers. It has been proven in the lab that gut protozoans kept in a petri dish can be killed with heat alone. This, however, has not been the case with fish infected with the same parasites. Heat alone has worked at times, other times not.

Heat, on the other hand, can worsen other bacterial caused diseases. These diseases oftentimes have the same symptoms as Hex. So, increasing the temp may kill your discus. This is why one needs to properly diagnos the disease. A microscope is invaluable.

BTW, metrodiazonal will not get your discus high. ;)

Mat

[senso]

Al and Sue

Agreed, that excessively high temperatures will affect the life span of all fish.

Larry
Thanks for the clarification. The point that needs to be made, is that often heat MAY kill off some of the parasites or bacteria inflicting our fish, and is possibly a better first option than beginning a cocktail of medications, until we are certain of the problem and understand how to treat it.
I realize that they are not on a metro high. :)

Something that I have read on a regular basis is that over exposure and often incorrect diagnosis and then administration of a drug, may result in the fish developing immunity to the drug.

[Mick B]

Increased heat, also increases the speed at which bacteria multiply, so may not be benificial.

It will also reduce dissolved oxygen and potentially increase stress, so I believe, the use of heat (IMO) is not a 'Silver-bullet', but one more tool, in the box.

1st identify what is being treated?

Just IMO/E as they say, Cheers, Mick B

[Al M.]

The point people is 9 times out of 10 if you ask just about anyone if your discus go off food the first step is increase the heat to speed up their system and in alot of cases they will start eating...... no it is not a cure all....but like Mick said a nother tool, but a very good tool.... once they start eating fish are alot easier to treat.

[senso]

Al and Mick

Agreed. A good tool, and often a great starting pointing. It is difficult to treat fish that don't want to eat, move and almost seem content to wilt away slowly

As a matter of interest what temp are you targeting when you treat. I typically keep the tanks at about 28c and will let it rise up to 31c to treat.

[tonymaccs]

.....may result in the fish developing immunity to the drug.

Hopefully the fish is already immune to the drug and will stay that way. It's the target bug's immunity we have to worry about.;)

[dr.dave]

I'm sure that is what is meant. That the infecting agent becomes immune to the drugs. I appreciate this post as I need to help one of my juvies. I will try heat.

dr.dave

[senso]

tonymaccs , thank you for the clarification. Yes, that was the intent.

dr. dave, this is merely based upon personal experience, but I have found that heat will help initially,and as many have said it increases metabolism. This is often enough of a trigger for the discus to begin eating.
However, within a few days if you do not notice some improvement, it may well be the time to consider medications for the diagnosed ailment.

Another factor that is often overlooked, is the social dynamic and hierarchy that exists among a group of discus within such a closed environment. Very quickly, from the group (assuming there is a group) a dominant fish(es) will establish themselves. They will likely establish an area in the tank as their own, which not only includes the territory but also the food in that area. The weaker fish will become submissive, and this includes being less aggressive in eating as well as showing muted coloration, often very dark, and tend to hide if tank decorations allow that. I have noticed, that once I removed the more submissive fish into another tank, they will begin to color up, eat more and generally hide less. No real illness as such, other than being a target foptr bullying.

[brewmaster15]

An observation I'd like to make....maybe others have had the same if we look back at things in our tanks.......

The discus you have that are the healthiest.... rarely to never have intestinal problems ( seems obvious enough)..the ones that do have intestinal problems though ..... often have them recurrently ...... ( not always obvious)

Many times I have seen people have to treat and retreat with heat...metro... what ever...when fish is ill and passing off colored feces... many times the same fish has the issues again...maybe weeks..or months down the road....but alot of times a problem discus is a problem discus......and if they don't have the same problem they have another one.

I'm not saying to cull a fish that is having a problem...But I think when you have a fish that has repeat problems and all is well with the others in the group...It may be time re-evaluate how badly you want to keep that fish.....a fish like that is the kind of fish that a resistent parasite has a real good chance to develop in as many meds are designed not to erradicate but to allow an immune system to catch up and beat the disease..This never happens if a fish is a repeat case.... there are also disease organisms out there like Cryptobia jubilans that look alot like hex in symptoms ...and we don't know quite how it is spread...or what the threshold is for to be spread... A sick fish shedding lots pathogens into the tank might make that disease transmission more likely. To save one you may risk all.

I guess what I am trying to say is... be very very careful of fish that keep relapsing.....Theres no reason that a healthy discus should have repeated episodes of "feces issues".. no other reason other than they are not healthy in some way.

hth,
al

[Rodolfo Barrera]

Al, I fully agree with you.

Cryptobia is usually found in the laboratory. Really widespread.

And as you say it is often mistaken for spironucleus, but also gill flukes (small fish in the corners), tuberculosis (emacination) and even 4-6 month syndrome. The synthoms are quite simmilar to those produced by the other organisms.

And we cannot forget that in acuariofilia the sintoms are normally bad interpreted and never followed by a necropsis to confirm them.