Do Discus really need regular worming?

[senso]

This is an article that appears in Practical Fish Keeping PFKonline

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/blog.php?blogid=143

There are a number of observations in the article and reader comments that make for an interesting read.

A question for all you fellow hobbyists

- Do you regularly worm you discus
- How often
- with what medications (in food or in the water)

[Mick B]

This is an article that appears in Practical Fish Keeping PFKonline

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/blog.php?blogid=143

There are a number of observations in the article and reader comments that make for an interesting read.

A question for all you fellow hobbyists

- Do you regularly worm you discus No
- How oftenInitial QT or by observed nessesity
- with what medications (in food or in the water)Panacur in BH mix


That's my regime, right ot wrong?

Cheers, Mick B

[Harriett]

Ditto

Harriett

[judy]

- Do you regularly worm you discus
- How often
- with what medications (in food or in the water)

On introduction of new fish, yes, as a prophylactic/preventative in the QT, and on observed symptoms in the main tank.
Otherwise, no.
Prazipro in water. Metro in water. Plus medicated food containing praziquantel, metro, and levamisole.

[senso]

I have probably been at fault here. I QT them for 4 to six weeks, treat as recommended by the seller (to date reliable concerned ones) and then let them be once in the main tank. Well six months later my problems begin. darkened fish, dark eyes, thinning bodies, sometimes the white feces. And yes, in the interim there has likely been an addition to the tank of some tetras or other smaller fish.

the article suggests, that discus are good hosts? Would anyone know why that may be the case.

Mick and Harriet, how often do you worm the discus, and for how long? Judy are you doing this on a regular basis as well?

Rossano

[fishmama]

In very simpleton terms, I look at the topic as when I kept livestock, some parasites/worms always exist in your "system"...regardless of how "careful" the initial QT. They wouldn't have survived all these milleniums if they were so easy to irradicate after all.


Just like horses, cattle, dogs, cats, etc...I routinely "de-worm", "de-parasite" my "system".

[Mick B]

I have probably been at fault here. I QT them for 4 to six weeks, treat as recommended by the seller (to date reliable concerned ones) and then let them be once in the main tank. Well six months later my problems begin. darkened fish, dark eyes, thinning bodies, sometimes the white feces. And yes, in the interim there has likely been an addition to the tank of some tetras or other smaller fish.

the article suggests, that discus are good hosts? Would anyone know why that may be the case.

Mick and Harriet, how often do you worm the discus, and for how long? Judy are you doing this on a regular basis as well?

Rossano

Hi Senso,

I guess with me, it depends?

As stated, initial QT /Hospital or when observed/required.

I do not 'go' with the same as dogs and cats, they interact with other dogs and cats, which may be infected, hence the preventative measure, but;
my Discus are not allowed out at night!!!!

So, the only time they meet others is in QT, where they would be treated etc.

Incidentally, Raw BH can contain tape-worm eggs and a few other nasties.

HTH, Cheers, Mick B

[Tropical Haven]

That is fine that you guys treat your Discus through the mixture of beefheart but what about people who don't use beefheart? Please explain to them the best way of preventative treatment for them.

[Mick B]

That is fine that you guys treat your Discus through the mixture of beefheart but what about people who don't use beefheart? Please explain to them the best way of preventative treatment for them.

:angel:Get some Beef heart????

Meds can be mixed into most foods,
FBW soaked in some,
Flakes coated with Meds,
FBS soaked in Meds.

The important bit, is meds in food directly target internal problems, as the 'med' is taken into the gut.

Meds in water, unreliable, expensive and messy, but if the fish is not eating, essential.

External treatment (Meds) in water etc.

Not sure if that is what you were after?????

Cheers, Mick B

[judy]

Jungle makes a medicated pond pellet food that I use because my discus (go figure) don't care a bit for beefheart. The pellets are a bit too big and float, but when you crush them up a little, and squish them hard as you pre-moisten before feeding, they do a slow sink to the bottom and the discus browse them quite satisfactorily. Thats the product I use as the medicated food described above.
If problems are popping up in the tank six months in, though, and you adequately quarnatined new arrivals first (and treated them prophylactcally in the QT tank) Senso, I'd look at your handling of your water parameters. Are ammonia and nitrite consistenlty and always at zero-- or very, very, VERY close to zero? Does your ph or Kh swing wildly with water changes? Is your temperature consistent? Do you do a large WC at least weekly, ideally twice weekly? Is your tank overcrowded?
Discus keeping is a balancing act. Ignore even one aspect for even a short time and the balance goes off, and the fish get sick.
I'm a travel writer, and the last time I kept discus, all was well until I did a two-week trip. I cautioned spouse not to overfeed, but to underfeed instead, showed him what size piece of frozen bloodworm to give, and figured with low rations and lots of filtration, the tank would be fine until I got back.
He overfed because, he argued, every time he came into the room, they rushed to the front of the tank, desperate for food. The water fouled. They all died.
Now I have trained the fish to eat dry foods and flakes, I have a system where there is a paper cuplet for each day's worth of food and no more is permitted, and I have someone available to do WCs in my absence.
And spouse now knows better than to overfeed... and he has a direct interst in keeping them well, as he bought a couple of them for me.

[senso]

Judy, thanks for the thoughtful response

I follow most of the aspects you state. Ph is roughly 6.8, WC twice a week sometimes three times. Over filtered, UV Sterilizer, clean up crew of cory and plecos. In fact I have at least one pair breeding on a regular basis within the tank. Granted I do not have a BB tank, and I keep plants, so this will be something many people are not inclined to do.

My interest for this thread was to understand what some of the 'pros' are doing on a regular basis.
The tip on Jungle Lab tabs is valuable, as they do not like the floating variety at all, but mixed with thawed bloodworm works.

[judy]

I have a planted tank as well, and it can be a challenging blend to ensure fish and plants all get what they need... one other product you've likely read about on other threads is Prazipro (liquid praziquantel). Your fish don't sound like they're showing symptoms specific to gill flukes, but the white feces could be an indicator of internal parasites, and Prazi does tackle a few of those as well as gill flukes. it is also very safe to use, doesn't stress the fish.
Wouldn't hurt to do a treatment of Prazi on them, if you can find it wherever you are.

[Aniket]

yeah but it is better to feed your discus with different food at different times ...foods like worms,dry worms,tetra bits...

[Davidzil]

I know several people who do medicated flake (from Angelsplus) on every couple months until the fish gets to 5 inches, they say the growth is better on their system.
Some also do not feed burger, plus they pre-soak the dry food in garlic pus.
Don't know is that's the way to go, but it works for them.

[brewmaster15]

One thing about worms is they really can't get into your tank and fish unless you introduce them if you start off with no worms. Live foods have the potential to do this as do new introductions. If you Deworm your fish when you first get them and don't introduce more worms through their food or other livestock additions, then you should not need to deworm multiple times.

I do this here as part of my Qt, because by the time you notice a fish with worms, its too late usually, much damage has been done and its often spread to other fish. Do it once on new fish consistently and really theres no reason to do it repeatedly unless you introduce parasitic worms in their food or by addition of other non-dewormed livestock.


hth,
al