Sand is a pain!

[aquagal]

I recently added some of the CaribSea (SuperNaturals) white sand to my tank. It looked so beautiful and natural when I first added it, I just loved it. Now, I hate it. It's so difficult to clean and looks terrible with discus poop all around. Now, brown algae is forming on the surface and it looks even worse?

I added the sand because I thought it would be a "natural" substrate for the discus. Sometimes, I feel like it is an irritant when they kick it up during feeding and when I'm cleaning. I can see little clumps hanging off their fins sometimes?

I am about to give in and cover the sand w/ a very small pebble substrate. Any input or advice on your experiences with sand?

Thanks!

[judy]

I used Geosystem extra-fine gravel (i've got white, but it also comes in black). It's not as fine as sand, but it's easy to clean-- just swirl the siphon end around at a slight angle, an inch or so off the surface, and poop and any leftover food gets sucked up nicely. A couple times a weekkeeps it looking pretty good. But i also have some dark brown extra-fine that I'm slowly mixing in a bit so there's some color variation on the surface. That's just for my own aesthetics; practically-speaking, it will serve to "disguise" bits of stuff that otherwise look like someone defecated on a beach (which in a way is what's happened, isn't it?).
The Geosystem stuff is inexecusably pricey, however. I mean, really -- 35 bucks for a bag that covers half the bottom of an 80 gallon tank? What was I thinknig???
The brown algae, I seem to recall, from other threads, is usually something that goes away once the biosystem in the tank's in balance.

[PiLer]

Depending how deep your sand bed is I would hesitate covering it with anything. It is a huge bacteria factory and will build up pockets of stagnant gas that will be harmful to the fish when released unless the sand bed is aggitated often via syphon tube or ridgid line. Just my two cents worth.

PiLer

Check out our journey
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=61218

[aquagal]

My sand is only about 1 inch thick and getting thinner every day as I can't help but suck some out each time I do a WC?

[judy]

Oh, you use a very thin layer, except where your plants are, and their root systems work with the anaerobic bacteria that create those gases. It's no worse than a bed of gravel--- and better in some ways, as the bacteria are fed by bits of uneaten food and poop that settle into the gravel. With sand, that stuff stays on top and gets vacuumed away, just as frrequently and just as efficiently as when you vacuum a bare bottom. The driftwood I use is settled nicely into the sand, and a good cleanup crew does an excellent job assisting in keeping the sand clear by winkling out any bits of food that may roll up against the wood.

[Riche_guy]

Is it possible to remove this sand and replace it with bigger grain pebbles? Many here will even tell you not to put sand at all. Is there plants in this tank?

[Dan S]

Hello,

Judy I agree with you, Ive never understood why people have such difficulty with sand?

Any detritus sits on the surface so you can see exactly what needs cleaning unlike with gravel.

Cory's keep turning over the surface and with a little proding from a stick it doesnt compact like people suggest it does.

You must get a very narrow syphon to clean it, maybe a centimeter in diameter otherwise you do syphon it all up.

Heater cables underneath it I believe help with stopping the gas pockets from building up.

It looks great!

And finally Discus love sifting through it which surely is the most important thing!

Hello Aquagal

If you are going to put gravel in, remove the sand before you do that. As you said, your syphoning some out everyday so just wait till its all syphoned out then put your gravel in.

Dan

[aquagal]

I don't have any other fish in the tank except 6 juvenille discus, so no corys or loaches, etc to break up what remains. I removed all the plants because they were all dying anyways with all the water changes.

The white sand just looks horrible now after 1 days worth of poop scattered about. Yes, everything sits on top and is easy to see to vacuum and that is the problem. Dark poop on white sand does not look good.

I have black sand in another tank and it DOES look good and is easier to syphon. Only problem w/ black sand is it promotes more peppering in those fish that are inclined.

[judy]

If all you have in there is the sand and the discus, I bet it would look awful...
here's my tank, planted, extra-fine white gravel substrate with a little brown and black mixed in, some peat plating under the plants, 3x weekly (minimum) 30% WCs, non-phosphate ferts and Excel added regularly to water column.

http://www.wordsink.ca/newtank002.jpg

I think the sprinkling of darker, very fine gravel adds some texture and helps hide poo.

[aquagal]

I'm planning on adding plants again once the discus have grown up a bit. Still not sure I'll like the look of the white sand [and poo].

Thanks for your input!

[GrillMaster]

I'm planning on adding plants again once the discus have grown up a bit. Still not sure I'll like the look of the white sand [and poo].

Thanks for your input!

I believe your plant problems were do to the thin layer of sand you put in the tank and not the water changes. You should have 2" in the front and 3-4" in the back. This will allow the plant roots to grow provided root tabs were inserted by the plants. Remember it takes awhile for a planted tank to become established.

Being able to see the fish waste is a plus IMO! It lets ya see what yer after...:)

Dont give up on the sand just yet, just add a lil more...:D

tc
Mark

[Don Trinko]

The poo that looks horible after 1 day is their whether you have sand or not. With gravel it isn't as visible but it is there. Don T.

[aquagal]

I believe your plant problems were do to the thin layer of sand you put in the tank and not the water changes. You should have 2" in the front and 3-4" in the back. This will allow the plant roots to grow provided root tabs were inserted by the plants. Remember it takes awhile for a planted tank to become established.

Being able to see the fish waste is a plus IMO! It lets ya see what yer after...:)

Dont give up on the sand just yet, just add a lil more...:D

tc
Mark

I just added the sand and used EcoComplete when I had plants.


The poo that looks horible after 1 day is their whether you have sand or not. With gravel it isn't as visible but it is there. Don T.

I know the poo is there regardless, but with other substrates it's not so obvious.

[GrillMaster]

There is unlimited substrate material! It depends on the look you are trying to achieve. If you want to stay with sand so the fish waste is easy to siphon, I would think pool sand would work quite well for you. Its a little more tan so the waste doesn't show as easily.

I used just plain play sand from HD an it worked well for me. Its more brownish than the pool sand. IMO its more natural than the white sand...:) Its also about $3 for a 25 lb bag.

hth
Mark

[Harriett]

More sand imput: I dumped the gravel and went for a buff colored silica sand about 3" deep from a pool and spa supply outfit [cheap at $7/50lbs] in my big planted tank. I am VERY HAPPY with it. It looks good, reflects light, the discus and loaches, cories, etc do just fine with it, the plants anchor well in it; I dig down all around the plants with the python weekly to stir things up and avoid anaerobic pockets. The sand is heavy and if you are paying attention, you won't have an issue with sucking it out of the tank--it settles immediately when you pull the python out of the sand bed. Poop does settle on the top but if the tank is planted then the drek just seems to get sucked up by the root systems for the most part and the rest gets cleaned by me--it always looks good, and I see NO algae growing on it.
This is a high tech tank and that may be part of the balancing act, but here's one fan who is real pleased with it. Silica Sand YES.
Harriett

[GrillMaster]

More sand imput: I dumped the gravel and went for a buff colored silica sand about 3" deep from a pool and spa supply outfit [cheap at $7/50lbs] in my big planted tank. I am VERY HAPPY with it. It looks good, reflects light, the discus and loaches, cories, etc do just fine with it, the plants anchor well in it; I dig down all around the plants with the python weekly to stir things up and avoid anaerobic pockets. The sand is heavy and if you are paying attention, you won't have an issue with sucking it out of the tank--it settles immediately when you pull the python out of the sand bed. Poop does settle on the top but if the tank is planted then the drek just seems to get sucked up by the root systems for the most part and the rest gets cleaned by me--it always looks good, and I see NO algae growing on it.
This is a high tech tank and that may be part of the balancing act, but here's one fan who is real pleased with it. Silica Sand YES.
Harriett

Very nice Harriet!! :thumbsup:

tc
Mark

[ponderingky]

If you want sand - go with pool filter sand. It is crushed quartz - will not effect the ph and is heavier than regular sand. It is like having a bare bottom tank though - you see all the stuff on top (which I like - easier to clean). I have pool filter sand in all my tanks and love it.

[White Worm]

I understand the dark look of the brown algae on the sand after it is in the tank for a while. It looks bad. I removed my sand because of it and just painted the tank bottom underneath a sand pebble color. I have the look of sand and a BB tank. My plants are in pots.