Just wanted to say hello.....

[Tesar]

I just wanted to say hello to everyone. This is obviously my first post. I am doing alot of research and the community here seems to be top notch.

I just recently got back into the hobby. I have had a number of tanks before, but I have never kept Discus. This time around I am going to try my hand at them. But after reading throug this forum and a few other sites, I have some questions.

Tank specs:

75 gallon tank
Rena XP3 filter
Driftwood and mics. fake plants
rock bottom

Now after reading through the forum I realize maybe a bare bottom tank will be easier to keep, but this is what is set up and is what is cycling right now. So this is what I will stick with. I have been trying to drop my PH down to the 6.8 range and have been using Seachem Discus Buffer and Neutral Regulator together in the dosing instructions. Only problem is my PH seems to be climbing instead of dropping. I am now at a Ph of 8.4, but I started at a PH of 7.4 (straight out of tap). What am I doing wrong?

Could the tank cycling have something to do with it? I have had the tank up and running now for about 2 weeks, and this morning when I came downstairs the tank was cloudy. According to my test strips this is a good thing and the ammonia is starting to rise.

Something else I have noticed is that my kh has went from about 120ppm to 300ppm. Is this another normal part of the tank cycling? Should I just hold off trying to lower my PH until the tank finishes the cycle process?

About how many discus would you say can comfortably go in a 75 gallon tank? I have read 10 gallons per fish and then I have also read 5 gallons per fish. So what is the rule around here?

Also my LFS sells Wattley Discus but looking at Great Lake Discus they seem to have a better selection of colors and variety. So now I am not sure which place to get my fish from. Is Great Lake Discus reputable? I see they are a sponsor, but would appreciate some feedback from you all.

Thanks for reading and your time,
Tesar

[Darren's Discus]

Tesar,
welcome to simply.



cheers

[Seecher]

Greetings Tesar,

Welcome to the group.

I think that the 10 gal. per fish is a good general rule for adult
discus. I would suspect you'll be starting out with smaller fish,
juveniles. Adult discus get very expensive. If you intend to
have multiple tanks you can start off with a 5 gal. per juveniles
and then move fish to the second tank as they grow into
adulthood.

WATER is the most important thing in the discus hobby. You
should definitely have a water testing kit to you make sure that
your water parameters are appropriate for discus.

With many in this hobby water changes become an obsessive
compulsive behavior issue. They will make outrageous and
irrational statements like " 50% regular water change three times
a week" or " 70% regular water change every other day" that is
pure non-sense. Regular water changes should be based on the
water quality readings that you obtained from your test kit.
Generally speaking 20 Parts per million nitrate level for juvenile
discus, 40 parts per million nitrate for adult discus, however, upper
nitrate tolerance for discus as NEVER been scientifically
determined. Other fish in your tank, like Otocinclus, might suggest
a lower nitrate level if they are more sensitive to nitrate, but
discus are not.

Good luck with your project and discus are a joy to own.

[Tesar]

Thanks for the reply Seecher. Does anyone else have any opinions to give?

[poconogal]

Hi and welcome to SD. I've kept Discus since 1993. I can say, without a doubt, that the most important thing they require is clean water. A Discus' natural habitat has some of the cleanest water around, with low TDS. Yes, test kits will tell you if you have ammonia, nitrite or nitrate. But there are other pollutants in that water, as well as bacteria and parasites. Regular, larger WCs are not an obsessive or compulsive action, they are required in order to keep Discus healthy over the long haul. Sure, you can do bi-weekly or monthly WCs, but you won't have Discus that live 10 or more years. You may not even have Discus that live 6 months. Depending on stocking level, you'll need to do a minimum of one large WC per week. Some do daily WCs, especially if they are raising juvies. Others will do 2 or 3 per week. I do 1 to 2 per week (and sometimes squeeze in a 3rd) and I have a 75, like you, and run the XP3 too. I have 10 adult Discus in my 75, however, years ago, I would not have attempted to keep 10 adults in a 75. Experienced Discus keepers usually try to keep nitrates below 20 ppm. While nitrate sensitivity levels may not have been scientifically determined for Discus, why take the chance with the health of these beautiful, and yes, expensive fish? Better safe than sorry.

There's no reason to lower your PH, stability is more important than numbers and when using chems to adjust PH, stability is something that very often does not exist. Discus will do fine in higher PH. My PH ranges from 8.2 in fall and winter, then gradually lowers to about 7.6 in spring and summer, since I'm on a private well. My KH ranges 4 to 5 dkh. I have spawing pairs and my Discus are healthy. Your PH is rising up due to carbon dioxide being expelled. The same thing happens to my water, so I've found that doing 50% WCs keeps my PH stable and stops it from shooting up 24 hours later. You may have to age your water, with heavy aeration, before doing WCs in order to stabilize your PH.

Hope this helps and there are many very experienced Discus keepers and breeders on this forum who can give you accurate guidance.

[poconogal]

Cary at Great Lakes Discus has wonderful Discus. Very reputable. You can search this forum for threads and pics of Cary's Discus. LFS Discus are usually not the best nor the healthiest. You'd be much better off getting Discus from a reputable breeder and start off with good stock rather than trying to get unhealthy Discus healthy again.

[Kindredspirit]

With many in this hobby water changes become an obsessive
compulsive behavior issue. They will make outrageous and
irrational statements like " 50% regular water change three times
a week" or " 70% regular water change every other day" that is
pure non-sense.


Now why in the world would you tell a first time poster something like this? Do you want to see them in the Sickness and Disease section so you can help them..........once again?

I think that what most agree on is that plenty of fresh clean water often....esp for juvies works. And works well ~

When they are adults then you can kick back and not display "obssessive compulsive behavior!"

[Seecher]

Now why in the world would you tell a first time poster something like this? Do you want to see them in the Sickness and Disease section so you can help them..........once again?

I think that what most agree on is that plenty of fresh clean water often....esp for juvies works. And works well ~

When they are adults then you can kick back and not display "obssessive compulsive behavior!"


Seecher wrote:
"WATER is the most important thing in the discus hobby. You
should definitely have a water testing kit to you make sure that
your water parameters are appropriate for discus."

Marie, don't just picked stuff out of context. The above
information is exactly what new discus keepers need to know
and are seldom told on this forum. Enough said.

[GrillMaster]

Welcome to Simply Tesar!

Please research the forum. There is an unlimited amount of very valuable information here that has been put together for years by very knowledgeable hobbyist and breeders alike! :)


With many in this hobby water changes become an obsessive compulsive behavior issue. They will make outrageous and irrational statements like " 50% regular water change three times a week" or " 70% regular water change every other day" that is pure non-sense.

Keep in mind the experience level with many in this hobby that have been doing this awhile. Its not 50% WC's three times a week. Its 50% WC's everyday!!

Of course these hobbyist with multiple tanks and hundreds of discus dont know what they are talking about and just love doing WC's out of pure boredom. Most of the members will attest to how much they hate WC's! If we didn't have to do it, trust me we wouldn't!!

You seem to have some sort of agenda Seecher, since the last several days the only posts I have read from you are posts of this nature directed at any newcomer that joins. Try being a more active part of the community instead of pouncing on the newcomers that just join preaching what pure nonsense WC's are.


Regular water changes should be based on the
water quality readings that you obtained from your test kit.
Generally speaking 20 Parts per million nitrate level for juvenile
discus, 40 parts per million nitrate for adult discus, however, upper
nitrate tolerance for discus as NEVER been scientifically
determined. Other fish in your tank, like Otocinclus, might suggest
a lower nitrate level if they are more sensitive to nitrate, but
discus are not.

Testing the water with a test kit to see if the N04 is high enough to warrant a WC is pure nonsense!! You do WC's to keep the N04 low to begin with. 40 ppm of N04 is on the high side for any aquarium fish never mind Discus.

Test kits have a track record of being inaccurate! Especially P04 test kits. They are the most inaccurate test kit on the market today. Discus will not thrive well with high phosphates in the tank and not doing water changes will result in just that.

Mark

[Tropical Haven]

Welcome to the forum.

[subcooler]

There seems to be quite a bit of tension wrapped in this thread!
I'm also new to raising discus-but thought I'd add my 2 cents.
When I started out a few months ago-I believed the LFS gang(weekly W/C's 25% & Ph must be below 7)
This proved to be a almost impossible task to chemically get Ph lower & stable-resorted to using high % R.O. water.
I got on this forum & had the chance to chat with folks raising/breeding discus for a long time & they dispatched the low Ph requirement.
Life has become much easier by just adopting the practices recommended here.
As for W/C's-I'm doing 40% daily.the fish are happy & I can rest easy knowing that I'm not taking shortcuts that my fish are gonna pay for later.
This forum is great(lot's of folks here that are really concerned with helping newcomers have success!)
Good luck with your fish!
Rob

[Elite Aquaria]

Tesar,

For starters welcome to SIMPLY DISCUS

If your tap water is 7.4 out of the tap and you have 120PPM then your water is fine for discus right out of the tap. The reason why the PH went up is that you added minerals from the Discus Buffer...Those chems will not be necessary.

Best thing to do is fill a bucket with water from the tap...then heavily aerate it for 24 hours. Make sure you check the PH before and after the 24 our period then let us know your results.

As far as water changes go...I hate doing them but if you want your Juvies to grow 1" per month for the first 3 months then daily water changes are needed along with 5-6 feedings per day. I guess it depends what your goals are. Here are some 5-6 week old Juvies that got that treatment

[Kindredspirit]

Okay ~ now I miss my discus! Thanks, Dan very much! Those are beautiful and prove what one can accomplish with the regimen you suggested.:)

[Kindredspirit]

Seecher wrote:
"WATER is the most important thing in the discus hobby. You
should definitely have a water testing kit to you make sure that
your water parameters are appropriate for discus."
Marie, don't just picked stuff out of context. The above
information is exactly what new discus keepers need to know
and are seldom told on this forum. Enough said.

But, See...don't you get it? You state how to make sure water params are appropriate but you do not say how to keep the water that way ~

Only what you believe is the best way, but yet, can not show any evidence of that ~ none... that is best for this type of fish.

Admit it. You know I am right.:D:D

[dvarnay]

Welcome to Simply Discus Tesar.

I have been keeping discus for about 10 years and personally vacumn my tanks daily. I have spoken to alot of other discus keepers on this and other forums and the concensus is regular water changes. Their are some who don't do this but the majority of people advocating this type of maintainance are breeders and experienced discus keepers. Just read as much as possible and do your homework before starting and everything should be ok.

Good luck and enjoy the experience.

[MSD]

If you can't do daily water changes then don't waste your money on discus and equipment. They will get sick or at the least never show their true beauty without that kind of care. Its like saying I only have to feed my dog twice a week, sure it'll live but do you think it'll be healthy and at its best?