What are they?

[deepblue]

I am new registered member. I have some questions regarding breeding discus. My blue diamond couple spawned currently and they failed for several times even this time. They both took care of the eggs. Then ate the eggs most likely to hatch and left all the white eggs alone. Once I put a web on the cone to protect the eggs and took away while there were some wigglers. They ate the wigglers again. Is there anyone know what's wrong with couple? And my friend took photos of the eggs for me. I surprisingly find some lice bugs in the water. Are they harmful? How to I get rid of them?


Before the eggs all gone white and some could see the eyes inside the eggs:

http://medialacache5.badongo.com/0884498173211799/7985432/image/2008-01-11/DSC_0009-crop.jpg.jpg?dl=y&ts=1200335546&z=bc398af3d64e4a911426c76531ef3133&ip=61.62.73.236
http://www.badongo.com/t/250/2662037.jpg

The poor dad still guard the eggs but none of them make it.

http://medialacache5.badongo.com/0884498173211799/7985432/image/2008-01-13/org/DSC_0016-CROP.jpg?dl=y&ts=1200335616&z=35f0bd9b794ea9ba2b5560d493ca7685&ip=61.62.73.236

The Original pic:

The dad think the moving things are his babies?

http://medialacache5.badongo.com/0884498173211799/7985432/image/2008-01-13/DSC_0016-s.jpg.jpg?dl=y&ts=1200335670&z=f58df5e7bfad3e5e94bf0b6e269edec4&ip=61.62.73.236


The bugs seem to be more than I thought. They attack the brownish eggs. What exactly are they and how can I get rid of them?

Thanks!

[AADiscus]

Welcome to Simply!

First, your pictures did not upload or I am having problems seeing them.

Sometimes it takes a pair a few tries or even longer to get it right with raising fry. At least you know you have a proven pair.;)

[deepblue]

Angela:

Due to the upload image size limitation I can not upload my photo on simply discus forum. I put a small thumbnail pic on but size are too small to see eggs. I will try to figure out how to put the photos on later. Thanks a lot for telling me. I thought everyone could see the pics (3 MB sized)
3)http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh22/deepblue_2008/DSC_0010-S.jpg

2)http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh22/deepblue_2008/DSC_0016-CROP.jpg

1)http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh22/deepblue_2008/DSC_0009-crop1.jpg

I hope the pics can be seen now!

John: Thanks!I certainly won't mind.

[cschwaderer]

I see some of these same small round lice-like things in my breeder tanks too. They are about twice the size of a brine shrimp egg and look like round little balls when they aren't moving.

I'm not sure from looking at the pictures you posted if they are the same thing or not. If you watch, them, do they seem to walk around on the surface of the flowerpot or the bottom/sides of the tank? And do they also seem to glide through the water too? Mine actually look like daphnia to me, but if they are, I have no idea how they got into the tanks. If so, they are probably the same thing.

Unfortunately, I can't tell you exactly what they are. But I've been told that things like this that live outside in the tank water are most likely not harmful to your fish - they live off of the extra food and wastes in the tank. Parasites like gill fukes and the harmful worms can't live outside the host's body, so you don't see them.

I'm not sure how you get rid of them. I just completely emptied and wiped down all of my breeder tanks, left them completely dry for 2 days, then filled them up last night and I still see some in a couple of the tanks. So they seem either be able to live without water for a period of time or there was just enough water in the sponge filter to keep them alive.

Anyone have any better information? I'm also interested.

Thanks,
Curt

[deepblue]

Hi Curt,
I am happy to know that they are not harmful to grown discus but they really biting on and moving the eggs. I really want to get rid of them. Yesterday the discus couple spawned again. The eggs all turned a little white at top again. I post another pic. Are those eggs normal or they aren't going to hatch at all?

Pictures of DAY 1(more than 12 hours):

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh22/deepblue_2008/DSC_0012-crop.jpg

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh22/deepblue_2008/DSC_0027-crop-1.jpg

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh22/deepblue_2008/DSC_0023-crop.jpg

[cschwaderer]

It's hard to tell immediately if they are going to hatch. They look like they are a nice dark golden color (as opposed to lighter or more clear which typically aren't fertilized). But you usually can't tell for sure until about 24 hours when they start getting dark spots in them. Then you know they are fertile.

By the way, I've had about 10 pairs of Discus and even the good parents never had a successful brood until around spawn 4-5 at the earliest. They won't fertilize the eggs well, eat the eggs, eat the wigglers, fry won't attach, etc until they finally get it right. So don't get discouraged.

By the way, here is another link that I sounds like it talks about the same small water-lice-thingys:
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Freshwater-Aquarium-3216/parasites-2.htm

Interesting that you say they bite on the eggs. I've not seen that. I think regular water changes to keep the population down is the best bet. Another positive - I've NEVER seen these things in the juvenile tanks - I'll bet a million dollars it's because they eat them all and my juveniles are happy, healthy, hungry things. So if you don't see these things landing on and congregating on your fish, I don't think they are a problem.

Curt

[deepblue]

Curt:

Just as I thought the white eggs appear to be majority. I post some pics of second day. Some white eggs can see eyes in them. What cause them cease to develop? Virus? Parasites?

Pictures of DAY 2:

1)http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh22/deepblue_2008/DSC_0019.jpg

2)http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh22/deepblue_2008/DSC_0022.jpg

3)http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh22/deepblue_2008/DSC_0024.jpg

4)http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh22/deepblue_2008/DSC_0026.jpg

5)http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh22/deepblue_2008/DSC_0023.jpg

I still turn the power filteration on and decide to turn them off when they hatch. When I see one of the pic I post, it seems one fry on the way. But I guess this time all of them will not make it as usual.

[doc3toes]

i was wondering if you are using a water conditioner when you do your water changes, if you are doing them?

[deepblue]

Hi Doc3toes:

I guess what you mean is to add water conditioner to improve water stability. As a matter of fact, I am thinking of adding some drops of formalin solution.

By the way, just as I predict, after I removed the net all the fertilized (darkened)eggs are secretly vanished. The male is still guarding the white eggs. I guess he never learn.

Pictures of DAY 3:

1)http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh22/deepblue_2008/DSC_0004.jpg

2)http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh22/deepblue_2008/DSC_0014.jpg

3)http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh22/deepblue_2008/DSC_0015.jpg

4)http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh22/deepblue_2008/DSC_0016.jpg

5)http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh22/deepblue_2008/DSC_0017.jpg

6)http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh22/deepblue_2008/DSC_0018.jpg

7)http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh22/deepblue_2008/DSC_0019-1.jpg

[doc3toes]

well, dont give up. someone on here will chime in with some advise that may work. maybe something to do with your TDS in the water not allowing fertilization. have you had it tested? make sure you read through all the old posts with 'white eggs' on here. there is lots of stuff. i am having a similiar issue with a proven pair at the moment. they aren't eating them, but some are turning white, where previuosly they never spoiled. i have heard of using methylene blue to prevent fungus, but it looks like your eggs are not fertile, then getting fungus. ie fungus is not the main problem. i'de say check the TDS or maybe you male is having a sterile spell. i dunno about those little critters, but they can't be helping. keep us posted.

[deepblue]

Doc3toes,


Thanks! I am now searching for old threads concerning "eggs", I just ask my friend to take some pictures for me. Something is wrong with the eggs but I can not tell. What's happening to the eggs? They seem to be eaten.:confused:

p.s. The shadows in those pics are the male BD's fin in motion because he tries to stop us taking pictures.

Have a nice Weekend every one!

DAY 4:

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh22/deepblue_2008/DSC_0013.jpg

All eggs are gone. The BD couple looks like nothing had ever happened. I only wish they could suceed for one time, one time is enough.