white butterfy or silver pegions

[Roger Huey]

first ,what are the differences and does anyone have either for sale?

[DISCUS USA]

If they where same thing then wouldn't be 2 different names. No? im not allowed to speak freely on this subject so will drop it now before i get warned.. :(

hector-

[GulfCoastDiscus]

If they where same thing then wouldn't be 2 different names. No? im not allowed to speak freely on this subject so will drop it now before i get warned.. :(

hector-

you're funny Hector.:)

[DISCUS USA]

:) @ Dan ,, lol

[tbrat]

I'm not sure what the diff is...but I do have a female a silver pigeon that I'd sell if you were interested...pm for further details.

take care,
brat

[Lee C]

The only difference I know of is the country of origin, both white, both pigeons.
The Silvers were once known as Blue Pigeons in Germany but the name Silver was attached to the ones who lose their striations as the mature.
My Silver Pigeons are over 7 inches tip to tip, not sure if the Asian strain gets as huge.
The WB I have seen are about 5 inches tip to tip and extremely peppery.
regards,
Lee

[Elite Aquaria]

moik,

The pair in the second picture looks fantastic...where did you get those?

[dpt8]

Moik, I hope you still have that pair of white butterflies and I do wish you'd raise some babies soon !!! :0) David

[jczz1232]

Wow nice pair you have and very clean. Hope you get fry soon.

John

[Lee C]

Moik,
If you put the same fish from the first pic( dark gravel tank) in the one with the light blue BB tank, you would see similar results as far as the pepper. They would clean up.
Like I said, my experience with the WB is peppery small fish. Maybe they were second generation. Percentage of "clean" in a spawn is probably around 10 to 15%.
Look at my avitar and you will see a Blue Pigeon/Silver without any pepper.
Also, a pic can make any fish look good or bad. Your first pic brings out the worst of the Silver Pigeon IMO. Anytime you put discus with pigeon base in a dark gravel/dark walled tank you will bring out the worst in the fish. Most discus hobbyist with experience with the pigeons are fully aware of this.
I knew a guy with WB and asked me not to take any photos since they were all peppered up(they were even in a light blue tank).
Out of the 20 I observed at 2.5 inch or smaller size, almost all were extremely peppered culls.
I also witnessed a pair of WB spawning at 4 inches.
Not to say there are exceptions like the WB in your pic #2. Maybe Jit Seng fish.
regards
Lee

[DISCUS USA]

Definitely two different lines,

Exactly !! :)

[Lee C]

Moik,
I can appreciate the comments from *EXPERIENCED* WB and Blue/Silver Pigeon keepers> without a Hidden negative agenda.
regards,
Lee

[DISCUS USA]

I've owned both also.. both nice fish with out a doubt although i prefer WB 's ..no agenda just agreeing with Moik,,they are definately two different lines..

Hector-

[Lee C]

If they where same thing then wouldn't be 2 different names. No? im not allowed to speak freely on this subject so will drop it now before i get warned.. :(

hector-
what ever you say, do you have any pics?

[DISCUS USA]

Pics of what? those blue pigeons i got like what 3 years ago they came with nasty gill flukes formalin didnt work so i asked what to do on forum someone said pp dip..they ended up dying pp dip was too strong ,,was my fault i never bothered no one about it,,i accept responsability for my mistakes,,pp doseage was too strong or i dont know was first time i ever used pp on actual fish.. never using pp again that stuff too strong,,just use to disinfect tanks from then on..

[brewmaster15]

I have both...I find them very similar...so similar in fact that when I post pics of my silver pigeons..people tell how nice my white butterflies are.

I do see differences in their development as I have had them from a few inches to adulthood. In the end.. the white butterflies tend to look more pasty white in base...the silvers tend to have a more silver metallic base..

Both wbs and Silver pigeons are Pigeon based...that means they will have varying degrees of pepper..my understanding is both lines were created by breeding a non-pigeon to a pigeon .... probably a cobalt blue or Blue turq....

I also have wbs crosses that have Bd in them.

I have seen great Wbs and great Silver pigeons...I have also seen very poor ones..with lots of pepper...In my opinion...this is to be accepted when looking at these lines... I think much depends on the sources obtained from and how intensive the culling is ..



Hth,
al

[kaj.p]

White butterfly are

PArental Marlboro X Parental Cobolt

then F1 X Cobalt

F2 White butterfly

Here´s some of my youngster from F1/cobolt parents Hopefully some of them will turn out to White butterflys.:)

[Lee C]

From a while back, Cary had the best WB in the US, but he has bigger fish to fry now, I guess. Cary, you out there in cyber space somewhere? This is a pic of his pair of some of the nicest I have ever seen. Cary, I lifted these pics a while back because they were some nice ones!!
regards
Lee

[Discus-Hans]

Lets make it more confusing I know they are "fake" for some people but I still like them :angel:

Silver Pigeon Snakes :D :D :D or did somebody else use that name all ready.......than they are Snake Silver Pigeons,

Hans

[brewmaster15]

Hans,
I like those "Fakes" alot!:)

-al

[Lee C]

I agree wilh Al. Hans, you can "fake" me out with those "Jumbo Fat Slab Doormats" anyday!!:D
regards
Lee

[DISCUS USA]

Yeah so instead of so-called silver pigeons they should be called FAKES for now on.. agreed?


Serious Question????

So if theres no difference between white butterflies and so called silver pigeons then why doesnt hans just say they are white butterflies? i think its because he himself knows theres a difference and would bite him in butt later if he mislead people saying that,,and since when did stendkers start breeding silver pigeons,,i dont see it on their website.. why doesnt someone just come out admit silver pigeons are throw back pigeons that wont breed true..

Sorry Al i'll stop now.. :(

[Clyde]

Cubic White Butteronia :)

[Lee C]

Yeah so instead of so-called silver pigeons they should be called FAKES for now on.. agreed?


Serious Question????

So if theres no difference between white butterflies and so called silver pigeons then why doesnt hans just say they are white butterflies? i think its because he himself knows theres a difference and would bite him in butt later if he mislead people saying that,,and since when did stendkers start breeding silver pigeons,,i dont see it on their website.. why doesnt someone just come out admit silver pigeons are throw back pigeons that wont breed true..

Sorry Al i'll stop now.. :(

I have seen this abrasive, juvenile behavior for about 3 years now, gets old. How can we stop it?
Fed up!:mad:

[Discus-Hans]

Yeah so instead of so-called silver pigeons they should be called FAKES for now on.. agreed?


Serious Question????

So if theres no difference between white butterflies and so called silver pigeons then why doesnt hans just say they are white butterflies? i think its because he himself knows theres a difference and would bite him in butt later if he mislead people saying that,,and since when did stendkers start breeding silver pigeons,,i dont see it on their website.. why doesnt someone just come out admit silver pigeons are throw back pigeons that wont breed true..

Sorry Al i'll stop now.. :(

Some idiots may think you are funny but, not only stupid but blind too Hector?????

http://www.diskuszucht-stendker.de/cms/index.php?article_id=8&clang=1&cat=6

Hans

[brewmaster15]

Okay Guys.. Lets keep the topic on Track here.. The little digs and Jabs turn to big ones and then the thread gets editted, locked and who knows what else happens from there... That just makes work for Mods and admins and is a real downer.:(

Moik,
I'll take some pics of what I have here and hope to work with ...sometime this weekend.:)

thanks,
al

[Lee C]

Back to the topic at hand....:bandana:
A couple pics of the male Silver Pigeon's offspring, then and currently(the one I kept, pick of the litter).
Discus in first pic(4 month old-top fish) is the same fish as the white in the second pic.
regards,
Lee:mods:

[forrest]

hi all,
in my opinion,silver pigeon,white butterfly or white pigeon were derived from the same family,they r all relative.breeders used different strains to cross with them trying to improve the the lineage,that is why the white pigeon from different breeders always look slightly different compare to the others.so,it is always 50/50 to say a silver pigeon is different with a white butterfly.
just my opinion,correct me if im wrong.

best rgds,
forrest.

[Jason]

Lets make it more confusing I know they are "fake" for some people but I still like them :angel:

Silver Pigeon Snakes :D :D :D or did somebody else use that name all ready.......than they are Snake Silver Pigeons,

Hans

Whoa Hans! I want some!

I've Also had Cary's white diamonds and WB's very sweet fish, If it wasn't for Cary breeding those long time a go I've would still be trying to figure out how to get them to attach to the parents.

[Jason]

Jason, please elaborate on your experience with getting fry to attach. Very curios.

When I started breeding the light pb types long time ago I could never get the frys to side feed. Cary figured out that you get better results by turning off the air, lowering the water level, darkening the tank etc. I'm sure this is common knowledge now, but wasn't back then.

[Elite Aquaria]

Lee, That fish really changed a lot from juvie to Adulthood.

[Lee C]

Dan,
I was surprised also and wish I would have kept a few more, but I already have too many fish LOL.:D
BTW, you have some very nice fish!
regards
Lee

[Elite Aquaria]

Thank you...;)

[Lee C]

This is another possible female @ 7 plus inches I moved to my new 75g with gravel. Her scales got a little scuffed up with the netting but a nice white discus IMO, imported from Germany.:)
Lee

[Elite Aquaria]

Lee,

They are looking great...

[Lee C]

Thanks Dan!
Also thanks for the advice concerning my pairs(waterchanges, live food, etc).
I just finished painting the 29g for the spawning pair.:bandana:
regards,
Lee

[CliffsDiscus]

WB pair without peppering. Can't see from photo but they are
fanning a batch of eggs laid on a slate.

Cliff

[CliffsDiscus]

Here are some WB babies.

Cliff

[Green Country Discus]

"A rose by a different name will smell as sweet" ! Here is several genetic mixes on the above that we keep. Cary's WB's, Cary's Golden WB's, German Blues and a X of our own. Let us know which is which and the ones you like best. Group shots may show all or some of those named. We like them all ;).

[Green Country Discus]

A few more.

[Lee C]

A few more.

Great Job!
Extremely nice US Grown Discus!
Keep up the good work!
regards,
Lee

PS: Post 50, first 2 of your pics have a Blue Diamond dominance, correct?
*More blue* and lack of *white* in the dorsal and anal fins, ie not *white*!!
1's I have are white in all the finnage...

[Lee C]

WB pair without peppering. Can't see from photo but they are
fanning a batch of eggs laid on a slate.

Cliff

Congrats" Cliff,
Are those white* or blue/pink? Maybe the lighting?
I have seen alot of the Blue Diamonds lately that have the similar appearance.

regards,
Lee

[Elite Aquaria]

Andrew,

I think I like the second picture on post 50...I love the color and body shape...great looking fish...Which ones did I choose???

[CliffsDiscus]

Congrats" Cliff,
Are those white* or blue/pink? Maybe the lighting?
I have seen alot of the Blue Diamonds lately that have the similar appearance.

regards,
Lee

Lee, those are light blue over a yellow base. Orginal stock was from Cary's WB which was
cross with my intermediate Albino for the F1 generation as picture(adults) the babies are the F2 generation.


Cliff

[Green Country Discus]

Thanks Lee. Dan you picked a X. We are patiently waiting on the next generation. Thanks for your comments ;).

[Elite Aquaria]

Great work Andrew....Are these the BD cross that you posted 8 months ago???

[Green Country Discus]

Yes ;).

[AADiscus]

Al....where ar your pictures? I know you got awesome pics.

[Elite Aquaria]

Andrew, what was that original thread titled? I tried to find it but could not find it.