Can Parents not produce slime for their fry?

[niveen]

First I want to say that this is my first experience with breeding discus, for years I bred many other kinds of tropical fish. :mad: My problem is that I have a pair of discus that paired abot 4 month ago, one is red turquoise and the other yellow PB. The pair spawned 4 time with the first 3 totaly unsuccessful (they ate the eggs ) but the last one was hugely successful, over 100 eggs, almost all fertilized, all hatched succeffully and the parents seemed to take great care of their babies, once they became free swimmers the fry tried to eat from the parents and swim next to them, but after a day or so, I noticed that the fry lost interest in the parents no matter what i did, I lowered the water level, i had all sides of the aquarium coverred with white sheets of paper, but unfortunatly the fry seemed to get weeker and rested on the bottom of the tank. Of course they all died withing 4 to 5 days of being free swimmers. Could it be that the parents did not produce any slime? ( I could not visually notice any slime on their bodies ) or could it be desease that early or what? My water temp was 85 F and the PH was 6.5 and I was using RO water.
Any help will be appreciated since the pair is spawning again..

[Graham]

Hi, what % RO?

G

[niveen]

Actualy all the water i used in the breeding tank was RO I'm not sure about the ppm or how to measure exactly.

[Elite Aquaria]

100% RO water could lead to an unstable PH situation...I like to mix at least 25% Tap to RO water in my fish room. After eggs are laid I start to do water changes with only tap water...Did you shine a light on them 24/7? Also did you take out the sponge filtration or air stones if you use them? If not try these two tricks and see if you have better results...

[Graham]

Actualy all the water i used in the breeding tank was RO I'm not sure about the ppm or how to measure exactly.

Besides the unstable pH that Dan mentioned, I was also thinking about the lack of trace elements. Without those the fish wouldn't be able to develop properly...time for GH/KH test kit

G

[Rod]

You could use a product like tropicmarin pro discus minerals to your pure ro water. That will give you the correct water parameters and trace elements and a more stable ph without having to resort to the tapwater mixes.

[niveen]

Thank you Rod, graham, and Elite A. it seems all of you agree that it may be an unstable PH problem.
Elite A to answer your question I did not shine the light 24/7 on them, I read that too much light can disorient the fry, I had a sponge filter on all night the second day after they were free swimmers but in the morning I had an ugly surprise, many of my fry were stuck to the sponge. So I removed all filtration and left a slow air stone.
If I use tap water mix, do I do that after the eggs hatch or from the begining.
and Rod i will try to get the tropicmarin pro discus minerals , if I can find it.
Now I still have a question. Is the slime on the parents visible by the naked eye? because I did not notice anything on their bodies and as I mentioned before the fry gave up trying to eat from them.
Thanks again

[Rod]

Yes the slime is visible though varies a bit from discus to discus. Some are so noticeable it is almost dripping of them during breeding episodes, others....if you look along the body side orientated from the head end, normally you will see a whiteish grey film over them, particularly along the flanks. I've heard of discus not producing slime, but i believe it would be most unusual.

[Elite Aquaria]

Elite A to answer your question I did not shine the light 24/7 on them, I read that too much light can disorient the fry, I had a sponge filter on all night the second day after they were free swimmers but in the morning I had an ugly surprise, many of my fry were stuck to the sponge. So I removed all filtration and left a slow air stone.
If I use tap water mix, do I do that after the eggs hatch or from the begining.


Not true...I use a spot light 24/7 on fry...check out my thread post 50 ==> http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=59286&highlight=fish+room+overhaul&page=4

Fry are attracted to vibrations in the water...the air bubbles can be a problem also. I do the water change once I see wigglers...I want the tank to be very clean because in 2 days all filtration is out of the tank for at least 24 hours or until all fry are attached. the reason they were on the sponge was because it was dark and they thought it was momma and daddy. Good luck...;)

[niveen]

I went and bought KENT liquid R/O Right and added the recomended amount to the breeding tank, and guess what , 15 minutes later they started spawning, ended up with over 100 eggs, lets see what will happen when they hatch and become free swimmers.
I'm still worried about the slime, I really did not see any on the parents last time and hope that this was not the reason thr babies died last time. I will be realy unlucky if both parents do not produce it, but hey you never know I learned many things from you guys and i will use this knowlwdge this time to try to raise a succesful batch of baby discus.

[niveen]

Another quick question, what do you think about using discus buffer additive to the breeding tank to stabilize the PH before the eggs hatch?