Learned the hard way about cleaning things

[MD Bandit]

Set new tank up Jan. 19th. Added a few fish 10 days later. Running one Eheim 2217 on the 90 gal. Added a few more fish 5 days later. Everythings looking good, Ph 7.4, 0 Am, 0 Na, 0 Ni. Nice. Cloulds up for 3 days then clears, all survive, looking good. Tank reached the 6 week mark on March 1st with a 18 fish school of each, neons, green neons, and rummynose. So, 54 fish plus 4 small Plecos and 7 bronze cats, 3 blue Rams and one betta. 69 fish total, no problems, eveythings nice. Filtration at the end of 6 weeks has the 2217 with prefilter, a Hydro4 sponge added at week 3, and a HOT Magnum with prefilter added at week 4. Plenty of filtration, everybodys healthy and happy. Gettiing set for the Discus order soon. Ok, Saturday I changed out the 2217's pads, used tank water and put the bio balls in it while doing so. Sunday, I changed the HOT charcoal to the micron filter.
Monday comes, dead are 3 neons and 2 rummynose. Ph dropped to 6.8, Ammonia is 1.0, Nitrate shows 5 and No nitrite. Do a 20 gal WC. Tuesday comes, 4 more dead neons and 1 rummynose. Do another 20 gal WC. Ammonia reads .50, Nitrate 0, Nitrite 0, Ph 7.4.
Last night, get home from work. Dead betta, 2 dead rams, 3 dead rummynose and 5 dead neons. I am FREAKING out by now.
Water test showed, Ammonia 1.0, Nitrates 0, Nitrites 0, Ph 7.4.
Did a 50 gallon WC.
Got up this morning, tank is crystal clear and no dead so far. There are 10 rummys left, all the green neons, and all the bottom feeders, plus 1 ram.

My theory, and tell me if I'm wrong. The bio culture crashed from cleaning the filtration too close together, The fishload took the bio off the charts and the water became toxic. I used Tetra water treatment on each WC. I have Prime but didn't ues it, because I don't like the false ammonia reading it throws. Went to LFS at lunch and bought a small bottle of Cycle. I am SO lucky not to have added Discus yet.
Thoughts, opinions? Thanks in advance.
Tom

[Tropical Haven]

You are correct with your assessments, you removed too much bacteria off of your filters so it wasn't able to hold the same bioload in your tank. That is why everything spiked on you.

[White Worm]

changed out the pads? should have just rinsed them. Never clean/replace all your bio media at one time or very close to each other. If you must, be prepared to make frequent large w/c's until it catches back up.

[RockHound]

What happened to you, is exactly why I do not like canister filters.
Unless they are used solely as mechanical filter for removing visible particulate matter.

Years back, I had about the same experience as you, with them.
I switched to wet/dry trickle filters (W/D T/F) & never looked back.

If you have an open cell foam prefilter in front of a W/D T/F, and clean that foam prefilter periodically a W/D T/F will run almost forever, without any maintenance.
Then, if it requires any, it is usually only vacuuming out a paper thin layer of accumulated silt, that may settle out, in the sump area.

The design of an effective W/D T/F is such the biomedia is self cleaning.
Once the biomedia is colonized, any dieing/dead biofilm simply sloughs off the media & young new biofilm forms in it’s place.

Moreover, many of the canister filter manufactures are full of BS, when it comes to the how much actual effective biomedia surface area they contain.
Most are touted as model X will handle a 55g aquarium, model XX will handle a 75g, model XXX, a 100g, Etc.
While that might be true of water FLOW RATE.
Flow rate & biofilter surface area are two differing things.

Certainly, there has to be an adequate flow rate, over bio-media, for it to function.
But, reality is, it is how much total surface area that bacteria have to colonize within a biofilter, that determines the biofiltering capacity.

I usually run about 2 cubic ft of biomedia in a W/D T/F.
So that the bacteria has room to expand/contract to handle any potential rise/fall in the waste loads, that occur from stocking rate changes, or water conditions.
Most canister filters, the whole canister, internal pump & content are nowhere near that big.

A well designed W/D T/F, with 1 inch gravity flow into it will handle 600 GPH, no sweat.
Most individual canister filters are nowhere near that flow capacity.

You can build (DIY) a well designed W/D T/F with a huge bio-capacity.
For about the cost of a small rinky dink power canister filter.

Another advantage to W/D T/F's is having a sump area.
Where you can place heaters, aerator, whatever gizmo's you want, or a bag of peat, zeolite, etc.
Instead of in-tank, or anywhere visible.

[MD Bandit]

Rockhound, that was WELL put. You echoed a guy I work with that SWEARS by his wet/dry set up and how easy it is to maintain. He is a knowledgeable fish guy and I value his opinion. He said if I put up the bucks, he will get me set up with a wet/ dry system so this NEVER happens again. Would have been way more tragic with Discus from Cary in that tank. Thanks for your input very much.

[RockHound]

He said if I put up the bucks, he will get me set up with a wet/ dry system

"the bucks" :bandana:

If your concern is pure functionality & high performance.
Over the looks of a swanky (expensive) acrylic container.

You can build a DIY basic W/D T/F in a couple hours, with Home-Depot/Lowes parts.
Really inexpensively.

Size wise, they are hundreds of choices of durable tough plastic tote/storage box’s.
So, it is no big deal find a suitable size container, to fit your needs.

Once you have a durable container.
Use white egg crate type light diffuser panel, cut in pieces, to form a porous box, to hold bio-media.
Use tough plastic slip ties to hold that container tightly together.
(slip ties are used to hold electrical wiring, in bundles & are cheap.)

Rig some legs, or a stand out of PVC pipe for that box.
So, the box bottom is held even with sump high water level.

Water level is determined by height of the drain bulkhead fitting.
(bulkhead made of the gray electrical conduit type PCV fittings)
Or, a weir plate you place in the sump, in front of the drain.

Build a diffuser trickle plate out of any durable stiff flat plastic.
With lots of holes drilled in it, for water to drain through & evenly shower media below.
Size it to fit in the top of the biomedia box you built.

Cut container lid in half.
Drill a hole in one half, directly over the center of the diffuser - distribution plate.
Fit a PVC bulkhead into that hole.
Plumb water inflow to that fitting in the container lid.

Install a PVC bulkhead drain & that is about it.

There are numerous design variations, you can apply, to suit whatever end result you want.

You can use bioballs, monofilament pot scrubbers , cut up soaker hose or whatever, as biomedia.

EDIT TO ADD:

Two 5 gallon plastic buckets with lids, will also work.
(tough, durable, inexpensive & available about anywhere)
Downside is you will not have sump space, to put things in.
As one bucket sits inside the other.

Cut 1 buckets top off @ the lowest flangle that circles it.
Drill a pattern of 1/4 inch holes in that buckets bottom.
Trim/cut lid round, so it will fit just inside the bucket top.
Drill an even pattern of 1/4 inch holes in that lid, to create a diffuser trickle plate.

Fill that bucket almost full of bio-housing media.
Sit diffuser trickle plate lid you trimmed, level, right on top the biomedia.
Install PVC fitting bulkhead in center of 2nd bucket lid.
Install PVC bulkhead fitting near base of 2nd bucket, as a drain.

Sit bucket containing biomedia & diffuser trickle plate in the other bucket.
Use PVC cement to secure it in place.

Snap on the top buckets lid.
Plumb water flow to bulkhead in top bucket lid with PVC pipe.
Plumb drain to pump return.

If you want an open sump.
You can sit the bucket combo in a sturdy storage tote.
Omit bulkhead fitting on bottom bucket hole.
Allowing water to drain directly into storage tote.
Install bulkhead fitting in the storage tote, as a drain.

~~~~~
If space - height - visability is not an issue.
For a much much larger W/D T/F, use a 15, 18, or 20 gallon plastic drum.
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj85/placer_mines/7drumdefuse.jpg

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj85/placer_mines/drumcannisterfilter.jpg

If you want a giant size W/D T/F.
You can stack 2 drums.
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj85/placer_mines/filterparts.jpg

[RockHound]

I forgot to mention, some design flaws many canister filters have.

Most canister filters are touted as 2 or 3 stage filters.
That usually being, mechanical, chemical & biological filtration.

Mechanical is trapping solids, in a screen/sieve effect, via fine floss filter pad.
Chemical is usually though activated carbon, zeolite, etc., by cation exchange.
Which also serves as second stage mechanical filtration.
As the porous chemical media also physically traps particulates.

Then comes biological, by bacteria that colonize bio-house-media in the filter.

All good & great, in theory.
However, fine physical & chemical media tend to plug.
As that is the nature of the particulate trapping function it performs.

Effective biological filtering media is combination of:
Aerobic conditions for optimal bacteria colonization, function/performance.
High total biomedia surface area, as a platform for bacteria to live on.
High void space, to allow unobstructed water flow through the biomedia.

Since canister filters are enclosed & pressurized.
That sets absolute limit’s on the oxygen available to bacteria in it.
To whatever is dissolved in the water running through the canister.
Which is often nowhere near optimal.

Which is not the case with a W/D T/F, as it provides a large air/water interface.
Which serves two optimal functions.
1. Provides optimal oxygen availability to bacteria in it.
2. The large air/water interface allows water to fully saturate with oxygen.
Just before it returns to the tank.
Which is not the case in an enclosed canister filter, unless it is aerated.

Then, there is the :(PUREE FACTOR.:(
If the pump in a canister filter is at the head end of the unit.
The pump impeller functions as a BLENDER BLADE.
Which purées in-flow fecal waste particles to micron sized particles .
Often almost invisible, or totally invisible to the naked eye.

Which is great for water clarity.
But, don’t confuse crystal clear water, with optimal water chemistry/purity.
As, invisible toxins in water, can rapidly accumulate to injurious, or fatal levels on fish.

[White Worm]

I like my canister filter. It keeps the tank clean and cycled. Plus I use a pre-filter on the intake. Handles the bio load just fine since you will only grow what is needed for the fish load. Mine is very simple to use, sits quietly under the tank in the cabinet and I can clean it once or twice a month in a few minutes. I'm sure the TF filters are great but nothing wrong with a nice canister for hobby use. I use the XP3 on a 75g tank with 9 adults, 2 bn plecos and 4 sterbai. I just rinse the sponge pads/floss and leave the 3 baskets of media alone. I use the black stars in all 3 baskets. I think I paid $100. Didnt have to worry about drilling, spilling, etc. The TF filter seems better used for larger systems or multiple systems/tanks.

[MD Bandit]

Well believe me I learned where I went wrong and thats the main thing. That home made filter is pure genius. Anyway, with what I have invested in the three filters I now have going, I'll stick with them. Clean the 2217, then a MONTH later do the HOT and the sponge. Keep the cleanings a MONTH apart at least. I am running prefilters on the 2217 and the HOT. They get tank water rinsed once a week. They DO cut down on the junk that stays OUT of the cannisters.
Ten years ago I kept 6 Discus in a 75 gallon. I had a pair of the Magnum 350s under the cabinet with the biowheels. Other then the impeller noise when something got in there, they ran flawlessly. I will add a bio wheel to the HOT next week. Thanks again for everybodys input. Now, to get the tank settled down and order some discus.

[subcooler]

Rockhound
Thanks for the informative tutorial on W/DTF.
You helped remove the mystery of why these are the best way to go!
I'm ready to try it out(in the basement of course).
I'd hate to have a leak upstairs-wives tend to frown on livingroom learning experiences.
All I need to do now is make another run to Lowe's & get materials together.
Any recommendations on pump to use for 5g. economy version W/D TF? I'm unsure flow rate I should be looking for on a 55g. tank(6 juvie discus 3-4").
Your help is greatly appreciated
Rob

[RockHound]

Freshwater turnover flow rate should be 3+ times per hour.
(IMO)

LOL, picking a pump for someone else, is like setting them up on a blind date.;)
Often, it doesn’t turn out good.:mad:

Everyone’s desired tank turn-over flow rate differs, as does the bulkhead or overflow drain capacity, pipe diameter, number of elbow bends, height to pump & resulting head pressure.
Not to mention pump cost.

The link below is a good starting place, to determine what pump you might need.

http://www.marineandreef.com/shoppro/pumps_power.html

I, personally am a fan of Iwaki, Pan World, or BlueLine pumps.