The tank of Death

[LostAcres]

Frustrated does not even describe it.
New tank, 55g..ran for 3 weeks, seeded with filter from smaller older tank. Added a few corys and tetras. Everything fine, parameters fine....not a bare bottom, but planted, water changes 20% daily. Ordered dicsus from (what I found out) not rebutable source. 6 - 2". Everone doing fine. after stress showing color dark, eating well...everything fine. Then ICK....lost everything but the cory's and teh very stressed Discus. Treating tank, while setting up a QT tank. Discus are in bad shape, covered with Ick, not eating, ammonia spiking. I am learning a very hard lesson. While I propably will be loosing all my fish, I got the QT tank set up, and not sure which way to go. I assume my tank was not cycled properly before adding the discus. I am heartbroken about this

[Brian Mc]

If it was ICH then your temp was too low, this is typically not a problem disease with discus. You should still QT discus from all fish when you receive them, not just other discus. Sorry to hear about this.

[LostAcres]

If it was ICH then your temp was too low, this is typically not a problem disease with discus. You should still QT discus from all fish when you receive them, not just other discus. Sorry to hear about this.


I moved temp from 82 to 86. So sad

[judy]

well, you may not lose the fish if you medicate with quickcure and do very, very large water (90%) changes immediately before you medicate.
Do not follow the dosing regimen on the bottle. Use the amount recommended, but raise the tank temp to 90 degrees (slowly, they're stressed enoguh right now, they don't need a rapid temp spike) and treat on days 1, 4 ,7 and 10, adding the dose at night just before lights out. During treatment, add a lot of extra aeration in the form of a couple of large airstones.
Continue massive daily water changes for at least another three weeks or until you see 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite and the appearance of some trace levels of nitrates, and keep the tank temp at 90 for five days after you discontinue ich treatment.
You can save these fish if you;re willing to do the work.

[LostAcres]

well, you may not lose the fish if you medicate with quickcure and do very, very large water (90%) changes immediately before you medicate.
Do not follow the dosing regimen on the bottle. Use the amount recommended, but raise the tank temp to 90 degrees (slowly, they're stressed enoguh right now, they don't need a rapid temp spike) and treat on days 1, 4 ,7 and 10, adding the dose at night just before lights out. During treatment, add a lot of extra aeration in the form of a couple of large airstones.
Continue massive daily water changes for at least another three weeks or until you see 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite and the appearance of some trace levels of nitrates, and keep the tank temp at 90 for five days after you discontinue ich treatment.
You can save these fish if you;re willing to do the work.

I m willing to do what it takes. going to follow your instructions. Keep fingers crossed!!!

[judy]

make sure the water you put in the tank has the same parameters as the water you're removing. If you've been using tap water with Prime all along, you'll be OK. those weatewr changes should also happen on the in-between treatment days, but you may be able to get away withj only 50%.
the meds in quickcure lose their effectiveness after eight hours, so you won't be taking out meds. the timing on the meds are to coincide with the ich's various llife cycles, so you'll hit it when it's vulnerable.
Feed lightly during this time, and make sure all uneaten food gets vacced up when yo do your WCs.
Good luck.

[DiscusOnly]

Sorry to hear about the ICK problem but I agree about the temp. I keep my tanks around 86 and never a problem.

[LostAcres]

Thanks everyone, I followed everyones advise, did a 90 % waterchange last night, treated the tank...and this morning everyone had passed away. Very upsetting. I did another waterchange, after removing all the bodies. I think the stress, along with the tank not properly cycled, then the ich, along with an ammonia spike was just to much for the little guys. The only survivors are 4 little cory cats. Now I am going to concentrate on getting this tank in good shape. Since its a planted tank, I think I will just let it run for awhile and get established. Next time I want to do it right. I already started another tank, this time bare bottom, spongefilter and small biofilter, used a sponge from my little 20 gallon that has been running stocked for 5 years, and added a 4 little hardy guys from my little 20 gallon. When this tank has fully cycled (wonder how long this will take with 4 small fish and an already seeded sponge)? Then I am going to try again, and grow out maybe 4 juvies.
It was a hard lesson to learn, the little guys had just gotten to eating their BW from my hands, Really heart broken here, but more determined then ever to do it right. Not going to give up yet.

[judy]

Just bear in mind that if it was ich, the cyst form of the stuff will still be in the gravel, in the tank. Wait long enough before you put fish in (and proper cycling will be long enough) and that stage of the ich will die off once it's hatched but has no host to attach to. Wven so, when next you get juvie discus, keep the temp at 86. That's another way of preventing ich as well as the temp at which juvies do best.
Sorry for your losses.. you have learned a hard lesson.

[LostAcres]

Just bear in mind that if it was ich, the cyst form of the stuff will still be in the gravel, in the tank. Wait long enough before you put fish in (and proper cycling will be long enough) and that stage of the ich will die off once it's hatched but has no host to attach to. Wven so, when next you get juvie discus, keep the temp at 86. That's another way of preventing ich as well as the temp at which juvies do best.
Sorry for your losses.. you have learned a hard lesson.
So is there anything else I can do? The few cory's left in the tank are coming back to their normal behavior. I still show some amonia. Do I just let the tank run with the cory's until its cycled properly and that will take care of the cysts? Or do I treat it again. I apologize for what must seem like silly questions, but I have fallen in Love with the discus, and cannot wait to do it properly. As I said before, I have started another smaller tank for growout, barebottom this time. It has been running for 4 days with a few hardy fish in it, and using a seeded sponge from an established tank. Water parameters are good, although I seem to have hard water. I am on a well, so no chlorine issues, I can do straight out of tap. Gosh I have been doing Koi for 8 yrs, and have Koi that are 8 yrs old and over 28 inches, one would think I should know all this.
I am dying to get more juvies, and use the growout tank, which will be much easier to maintain then the planted one. Can I do it now in the new tank with the seeded filter with big time WC? OR should I wait?

[judy]

Koi can handle profoundly dirty water and maltreatment.
Discus require pristine water conditions. Allow BOTH your tanks to cycle completely. Treat the tank with the cories fully for ich, according to the advice above. And do water changes in that tank that, too! As long as there are fish in that tank, the ich will continue its life cycle and will be waiting for the discus when they get there.
Bear in mind that when you add fish, you add bioload, and a small tank will go through a minicycle while the bacteria try to catch up. If possible, once the tanks have fully cycled, add various inexpensive community fish you can keep for a few months. Keep them healthy. Treat for any disease you see. Then sell them off and replace them with discus. Keep the tank temperature at 86.
If you are using a 20 gallon as a BB growout tank for half a dozen discus, you are using a tank that is much too small. You will need to do-- at minimum-- fifty percent WCs twice daily in that size tank.
You need to do a lot of reading on the stickies in this forum and get yourself knowledgeable that way. Keeping discus requires consistently perfect water, which means lotrs of WCs, lots of filtration, proper feeding habits and good consistent water parameters: NO ammonia, NO nitrite, nitrate under 10 ppm, low DOCs (dissolved organic compounds). Throwing fish into an tank that's not fully cycled and THEN well-established with biofiltration sufficient to handle the fishload virtually guarantees you'll kill another batch.

[LostAcres]

Koi can handle profoundly dirty water and maltreatment.
Discus require pristine water conditions. Allow BOTH your tanks to cycle completely. Treat the tank with the cories fully for ich, according to the advice above. And do water changes in that tank that, too! As long as there are fish in that tank, the ich will continue its life cycle and will be waiting for the discus when they get there.
Bear in mind that when you add fish, you add bioload, and a small tank will go through a minicycle while the bacteria try to catch up. If possible, once the tanks have fully cycled, add various inexpensive community fish you can keep for a few months. Keep them healthy. Treat for any disease you see. Then sell them off and replace them with discus. Keep the tank temperature at 86.
If you are using a 20 gallon as a BB growout tank for half a dozen discus, you are using a tank that is much too small. You will need to do-- at minimum-- fifty percent WCs twice daily in that size tank.
You need to do a lot of reading on the stickies in this forum and get yourself knowledgeable that way. Keeping discus requires consistently perfect water, which means lotrs of WCs, lots of filtration, proper feeding habits and good consistent water parameters: NO ammonia, NO nitrite, nitrate under 10 ppm, low DOCs (dissolved organic compounds). Throwing fish into an tank that's not fully cycled and THEN well-established with biofiltration sufficient to handle the fishload virtually guarantees you'll kill another batch.


Judy, thank you, but I am getting discouraged. I think I am doing the right thing with the bare bottom tank. Like I said, I used a seeded sponge filter, have a few community fish in there, and will just wait for it to cycle with of course WC. As far as the planted tank goes, with the few cory's left, I treated it again tonight, after doing a complete WC. I will let that one run and get correct. It's very frustrating, too little fish, no cycling, add fish, and you overdoe the bioload. I think I will let these two tanks, the planted one I just lost everything in...and the new barebottom one, run for abit. Once everything is established, I will move the community fish which are now in the barebottom tank, back in their original home. They are pretty hardy and have been with me for 3 yrs. It's getting very frustrating, thats for sure, and I am reading the stickies, ALL of them. Going to keep trying. Discus are not cheap, so everything has to be right. Again, Thanks for taking the time to answer

[judy]

Keep reading and learning. It will eventually pay off with healthy, happy fish, and thre's nothing more beuatiful than a tank full of healthy discus.

[Dissident]

Sorry your first experience with these great fish turned out so poor.

Letting us know more about the tank will help us determining what went wrong as well.
Temp/Ph/Kh/Gh/No4/No2/No3
Tank is planted, do you add anything to the tank like CO2/Excel/etc.
How are you doing your water changes? Depending on your water source you may need to age, heat, and treat.

You will want to have the following around when growing juvies:
Seachem PRIME (2L/4L bottle)
EpsomSalt
AquariumSalt
Test Kits: NH4/NO2/NO3/Ph/Kh/Gh (test tank water, tap water, aged water)
-There is more for the list but IME those are the basics

Hope we can help and make your next experience a better one.

[LostAcres]

Sorry your first experience with these great fish turned out so poor.

Letting us know more about the tank will help us determining what went wrong as well.
Temp/Ph/Kh/Gh/No4/No2/No3
Tank is planted, do you add anything to the tank like CO2/Excel/etc.
How are you doing your water changes? Depending on your water source you may need to age, heat, and treat.

You will want to have the following around when growing juvies:
Seachem PRIME (2L/4L bottle)
EpsomSalt
AquariumSalt
Test Kits: NH4/NO2/NO3/Ph/Kh/Gh (test tank water, tap water, aged water)
-There is more for the list but IME those are the basics

Hope we can help and make your next experience a better one.

Thanks Dissident. I just took measurements of the tank using Mardel Test strips. I also tested water directly from my tap, and I am on a well, so no chlorine or chloramines.

55gal tank, running for 5 weeks, 6 corycats and 4 rummy nose tetras added to help cycle. Spongefilter from an established tank, couple of air diffusers under gravel, and Emperor 400 filter with media from established filter. I added the discus after week 4, when parameters were great. It is planted, no C02, nothing added but AQ salt. Temps were 82 but I upped them when I started treating at the first sign of Ich to 86. Thats where the temp is now

Reading this morning.
N03 = 20 ppm
N02 = .05
GH = 120
Kh = 120
PH = 7.2
Ammonia = 0.02


My Tap water
N03 = 0 ppm
N02 = 0
GH = 120
Kh = 120
PH = 7.2
Ammonia = 0


of course, there are just a few corycats left in the tank now, and I see no sign of ich on them. the discus died friday night on saturday.

[aquagal]

I really encourage you to QT next time (discus only). I learned the hard way as well the importance of this. Six weeks in QT not only gives you time to ID and treat a lot of things that may show up, it also gives the discus time to acclimate to your water. I noticed you had corys and tetras in right away. They could have been the carriers of what affected your discus.