New store setup

[jimbo2008]

I work in a large fish store and my boss wants to start a discus system, the plan is to start with 6 50 G tanks.

75% RO / 25% tap, PH 6.5, two sponges per tank, alternate the sponges being cleaned every other week.

Stealth heaters, 82-84 degrees.

Any input on that setup?

Not certain how these new tanks are going to get cycled?

Frequency of water changes and what portion.


Jim

[White Worm]

Start in the beginners section here and read, read, read and keep the discus section seperate from the central filtration.

[krandrus]

Here is some quick ideas -

Use your tap water, but age it and make sure that it is the correct temperature. Lowering the PH will not help the fish immensly, but will cause your customers problems when they acclimitize the fish. The key is that the PH and the temperature of the new water be stable.

I am having alot more luck raising my fish at 86-88 degrees. It will be easier to keep fish that are stress from shipping eating at that temperature.

Designate 1 person the "discus guy". Only one person should be responsible for feeding and water changes. If that person cares about their job and takes their time your boss will make alot more money due to less dead fish.

Water changes depend on fish stocking. From what I have seen of most LFS, the tanks are overstocked and don't get enough water changes. If you want to do things best and you are going to exceed 1 young fish per 5 gallons, then you will have better luck with 2 50% water changes a day. It may seem like a lot, but the reason that LFS have poor reputations for discus is that they treat their fish like all other fish. If you do this, you will have a large % of your fish die or be sent out sick. Even the 300% markup on fish makes it hard to make money that way.

Good luck Jim. I only know one LFS that keeps his discus the correct way, and he has difficulty making money. The pros on this website do it more for love than financial reward and they base their businesses on turning around quality fish fast. Selling fish far faster then any LFS could.

Kevin

[jimbo2008]

Start in the beginners section here and read, read, read and keep the discus section seperate from the central filtration.

Do you really think telling someone to read is helpful, why bother replying.

I did read I posted my conclusions and was looking for feedback.

[jimbo2008]

Use your tap water, but age it and make sure that it is the correct temperature.

Why not use RO?

Lowering the PH will not help the fish immensly, but will cause your customers problems when they acclimitize the fish. The key is that the PH and the temperature of the new water be stable.

The wholesalers keep their water at 6.5, I can bring it up to 7.0 after a while but not when I first get them, the stress level would increase I think.


I am having alot more luck raising my fish at 86-88 degrees. It will be easier to keep fish that are stress from shipping eating at that temperature.

I can do that.


Water changes depend on fish stocking. From what I have seen of most LFS, the tanks are overstocked and don't get enough water changes.

True most do overstock. I planned on 10 2" in 50G.


2 50% water changes a day. It may seem like a lot, but the reason that LFS have poor reputations for discus is that they treat their fish like all other fish. If you do this, you will have a large % of your fish die or be sent out sick. Even the 300% markup on fish makes it hard to make money that way.Kevin

I was planning on a 50% change every other day, your advocating 2 50% or 100% a day, it's not practical.

I don't think a hobbyist could do that.

I would think about adding UV before that much labor.

Jim

[phidelt85]

I was planning on a 50% change every other day, your advocating 2 50% or 100% a day, it's not practical.

I don't think a hobbyist could do that.

Jim

Alot if not the majority of the folks on this site are hobbyists and yes we do do that. It's what's best for the successful rearing of young discus. If you're wanting to raise discus so that you have quality discus to provide for your customers, I would think you would want to bring them up under the best conditions and portray that need for care to any customers desiring to keep discus. It may be considered overkill by some but I think it's the best advice to give someone new to discus. ;). You're time would be better spent doing those water changes than mixing up RO mix. :)

Good luck

[RickMay1]

The key behind keeping discus is the water; people who keep discus soon realize this they aren’t discus keepers but water keepers, that discus live in. Daily water changes is not that hard, provided you’ve considered this when you design your setup. Ideally where your in retail you also want to conceder how to do this with the minimum amount of labor time. It can be done, plumb your system so you can quickly remove the water, a python sized hose isn’t going to do it. You need to look at ways to remove water FAST. Like with a 1” or 1.5” hose, you can get 50% water drain in about 1-3 minutes filling can be done using float valves, or by a system that moves lots of water (providing the water is the same temp as the tank). Discus won’t mind the quick drain/fill. You can also drill the tank at 50% so you only need to pull the stand pipe and let the tank drain, then fill.

As to your question "why not use RO" I'd ask you "why would you want to"? RO is only needed for breeding, you are not trying to breed them just sell them. RO isnt cheap so why use it if you don't need it. Discus do fine in tap water and despite the "book claims" they need 6.5 ph its not true, they do fine in pretty much any PH, AS LONG AS ITS STAYS CONSTANT. Where people get in to trouble is when they try to fight their water conditions, and start getting PH crashes, or every batch of water is a different.

“The wholesalers keep their water at 6.5, I can bring it up to 7.0 after a while but not when I first get them, the stress level would increase I think.” Not true, discus can quickly acclimatize to higher or lower ph as long as it’s not bouncing all over the place.

[Polar_Bear]

I agree with Jose. Large and frequent water changes are what is best for young discus.

When we are rearing fry they get 200% daily water changes until the age of 4 months. So it can, and is, done by hobbyists. I would stress to my customers that growing out discus is best done by:

1. Large and frequent water changes
2. Food, food, food. As often as possible
3. Bare bottom tank(s)
4. Excellent bio-filtration

RO water is NOT necessary for keeping discus, even wilds. This is just another aquarium myth that refuses to die. Soft water is only necessary when breeding, and oftentimes with domestics, not even then (we have had successful spawns in GH 12 water with some domestics). I would stress to your customers that keeping discus is a commitment in time and resources, if they are unable to make that commitment they should choose a different type of fish. To most it is just not worth the effort and you can easily see the results of a lack of commitment here and on any discus forum, they are the ones having constant problems. Discus are actually healthy, long lived fish if kept properly.

[jimbo2008]

Ok, I came here to get this input, great and thanks.

All the tanks were originally drilled thru the bottom, so I can hook up drains no big deal.

Tap water a can put thru a charcoal filter before using just to clean any contaminants it may catch, is that good?

So now I just need to store the water and get the temp up.
Can do.

I need to figure out a way to take the stand pipe that goes thru the bottom and have it open at 50% of the height with flushing the fish???????

[RickMay1]

Use a Slip collar (fitting to connect two section of pipe) glue one side, then just slip on and off as needed, should have a tight enough fit to not leak. If your worried about the fish getting sucked against the drain, you could fit on a outlet screen.

"Tap water a can put thru a charcoal filter before using just to clean any contaminants it may catch, is that good?" yes thats fine, as long as you also let it sit overnight, to off gas.

[White Worm]

I work in a large fish store and my boss wants to start a discus system, the plan is to start with 6 50 G tanks.
75% RO / 25% tap, PH 6.5
82-84 degrees.
Not certain how these new tanks are going to get cycled?
Frequency of water changes and what portion.

Uh, since you work in a LFS, you would probably be able to get your hands on some liquid BIO and do a fishless cycle? The heaters are fine and 85-87 would be more like it.


Start in the beginners section here and read, read, read and keep the discus section seperate from the central filtration.
Well Jimbo....
I dont know you (4 posts now....1 post when I replied) and I dont know how much reading you have done. I simply gave you an idea where to go since you were asking very basic questions. You should have already known since you read so much already and you actually work in a lfs. :confused: You asked about temp, RO and water changes. All of those simple questions are answered about a 1,000 + times in the Beginners section....probably in one of the stickys at the top of the thread.... I didnt intend to piss you off.


Why not use RO?
The wholesalers keep their water at 6.5, I can bring it up to 7.0 after a while but not when I first get them, the stress level would increase I think.
I planned on 10 2" in 50G.
I was planning on a 50% change every other day, your advocating 2 50% or 100% a day, it's not practical.
I don't think a hobbyist could do that.
I would think about adding UV before that much labor.

UV doesnt clean your water, water changes do. If you are not ready to accept the required maintenance on discus, you will fall into the same trap that most LFS's follow. Sounds good at first but its just not worth it in the long run ($$$). You will end up with sickly looking discus, wonder why, sell them at a ridiculous price and add to the already crazy notion that discus are hard to keep. I've seen a couple LFS's do it right but they mostly deal with discus as the main product.

Just use Polar Bears advice. Stick to simplicity. Good Luck.

[tcyiu]

Do you really think telling someone to read is helpful, why bother replying.

I did read I posted my conclusions and was looking for feedback.

Jimbo,
I am not an old hand around here, and perhaps I am alone in feeling this way, but I do take exception to your being new, asking basic questions and then snapping at a senior member. Perhaps you could have prefaced your post with: "I read all the posts in the basic section, but I still have questions like ...."

Also, if you're going to resist the advice that is freely given, then why bother asking??

Tim

[digthemlows]

I'll chime in on the "question/search" thing.........I'm new to this forum but have moderated and been part of many bass guitar forums for a very long time. When forums get large, the search function, as well as the time it takes to find answers to multiple questions becomes a hassle. I see the purpose of the forum is to ask "your" specific questions and get answers from the "pros". When someone asks a question, why tell them to read the forum?? If that's the case then well over 75% of the posts should just be deleted as they are redundant and someone should just "read". The search function becomes a way to read lots and lots of background on a subject when time permits (IMHO of course). Again, much respect to all involved, but my thoughts are that if someone asks, and you have the knowledge, either post, or point the person to that knowledge.

Again, please, no disrespect meant to anyone! EVER! This site is great, and works very well!

[Don Trinko]

I know 3 Discus dealers personaly and their WC is completely different. They all have quality healthy discus.

Dealer 1 seldom changes water because he is constantly adding water because of the sale of fish. He does not breed discus.

Dealer 2 does several small water changes a week. He is not raising fish and the fish he has sell quickly. ( he raises fish at a different location)

Dealer 3 uses a drip system and tap water that goes thru 2 carbon filters. He changes one filter each month. ( alternating) He does breed and raise fish occasioaly.
At most big LFS the fish are only there for a week or 2. The object is to get them in and sell them. Don T.

[subcooler]

Do you really think telling someone to read is helpful, why bother replying.

I did read I posted my conclusions and was looking for feedback.

I'm also new to discus-I find that reading the threads here helps me to understand the why it's done & not just what should be done.
I've found a wealth of information here & can understand why the extra work needed produces happy/healthy discus.
Another advantage to reading articles in the Library or searching threads is:
You can contact members who respond to a topic & direct any questions you may have-Most everyone here is willing to share what they've learned.
On the subject of W/C's:
I bought my first Discus from LFS-The advice I got was weekly water changes 10-20% are good.After coming here & meeting a local member for some face to fish chats :D (about discus raising)I started doing 50% W/C's daily & fish's health/happiness has improved greatly-They are now thriving (not just existing-huddled around a sponge filter in the corner).
I mentioned large daily W/C's in LFS I frequently drop too much $$$ in & got the response" That's fine if you got nothing better to do!":mad: (needless to say not happy with that response!)
A Discus (reseller/importer/breeder) told me he does 90% W/C's daily.
Too sum up this long winded reply:
If frequent large W/C's are the price to have happy/healthy fish-I'll gladly invest the time!
Best of luck in your upcoming venture
Rob

[White Worm]

When forums get large, the search function, as well as the time it takes to find answers to multiple questions becomes a hassle. When someone asks a question, why tell them to read the forum?? either post, or point the person to that knowledge.


Well, lucky for us Simply is well organized because I found these answers in the first section in Main discus topics beginners in the 5th Sticky just like I advised. Took about 10 seconds. Also, if you notice, some threads go unanswered sometimes or get one response. I thought I would just give an idea considering It was just a quick moment before I got off the internet. We dont always have the time to go into details when its easier to point them in the right direction. I pointed to exactly where the info was so I thought it pretty useful.

[pcsb23]

Just a very friendly word, please keep this om topic folks, the person is asking for info and opinions on how to set up a system in a fish store. He should be commended for asking first and trying to do it right. After all we are all very quick to condemn lfs's and here we have one trying to do it right!

Discussions about search functions and the like are very interetsing but may be better off in a seperate thread. I do hope people take the hint.

Respectfully,
Paul

[wgtaylor]

Hi Jim
If I were in the planning stages I would setup a automatic water drain-fill plumbing for the discus tanks and use local water source. If you can do water changes by opening and closing a couple valves it will happen. It won't be hard for you to acclimate the discus to your water then it will be easier for you to maintain your tanks. The discus will be happy. It will be easier for your customers with their fish as stated. You most importantly want customers happy. Everyone wins. Good luck with the store. Bill