Fish Darting - help??

[-gb-]

Problem:

Fish slime coat is thin. Fish are a little dark and stressed. Drop in appetite but they are still eating 3X a day. Breathing is normal. My main concern is that are darting around the tank. Given the smallest disturbance and they all freak-out. They are not scratching or rubbing.

Tank Parameters:
65 gallon tank
40% water changed each & every day, temp adjusted and aged 24 hours, aerated.
PH = 7
KH = 6
GH = 6
Nitrite= 0
Nitrate = 0
Co2 = 1ppm
Phosphates = 0
1 adult
5 juvi
planted (in pots) no fertilizer added
bare bottom tank
temp = 29C

What is my best course of action?

Thanks,

[dishpanhands]

I would guess that with no nitrate at all and you didn't show your ammonia..I would say your filter is not cycled and your haveing a ammonia spike...you will need to do a couple a water changes a day for about the next couple of weeks...you test for the ammonia..

[-gb-]

Thanks dishpanhands,
I tested for ammonia & it is 0.
Canister filter is well cycled.

Any other suggestions?

[subcooler]

IMO-No nitrate reading indicates uncycled filter-no ammonia reading because of frequent water changes.
I went through this scenerio after medication wiped out my Biofilter.
You can prove or disprove this theory by:
skip water change for a day, then you should definately have a Nitrate reading, or a ammonia reading.
You also could buy another water test kit (solution may be out of date)?
Something is wrong when all levels indicate zero:confused:
Rob

[Graham]

While I'm not sure what's wrong with the fish.....that there is no NO3 may not be unusual.....at a pH of 7.0, just about all the ammonia/NH3 given off by the fish will be converted to NH4/ammonium. The amount of NH3 given off by the fish will depend on the protein level of the food being fed and there is only 1 adult and 5 smaller fish so there's not tons of food going in.

Plants and this is a planted tank, will use NH4 as fast as they can, they prefer it over NO3...so if the plants are using up the NH4 and none of it or very little of it is being oxidized to NO2 and then NO3........then the reading would be very low, if there at all.

Then if you throw in daily 40% water changes and some good house cleaning it shouldn't be all that surprising that there is no readable levels using our simple little test kits.

As to the fish darting around the tank means that they skittish and not necessarily sick....what makes you think the cuticle is thin?

[DDC]

Hi there, Electrical Current in the water could be something to lookout for. If you are certain that all perams are good.

I would give a visual inspection of all equipment and make sure that there arent any small electrical leaks anywhere. Perhaps you might feel a buzz when you'r hand is in the tank.

I had a dashing Discus problem a while back and it was due to a faulty heater ( The heater was actually brand new ) But I discovered condensation inside it. Once replaced the darting stopped and they settled again.

If you do find any leaks, you could earth the water with an earthing strap.

Just something I thought might help.

[-gb-]

Thanks for the feedback everyone,

I'm going to say Graham is correct and my tank is cycled. My plants are huge and it makes sense that they would also help to keep the water clean. It's one reason I have them in there.

As for the fish being skittish. I painted the bottom of the tank last week & this helped somewhat with the darting. I also replaced a heater that was old and not really pulling its weight. (I have two in the tank) The heater could have been leaking... thanks DC

The cuticle on all the fish just doesn't look shinny. In fact it looks dull and hazy Two of the fish have cloudy eyes & my adult fish is eating very little if at all. This mixed with them being really skittish and irritated has me worried.

I'm thinking of pulling the plants out and doing a salt treatment. This or doing a prazi treatment in-case it is flukes. Any suggestions???

[-gb-]

pic:

[Graham]

Sounds like the fish are producing too much mucus.............I'd be more inclined to leave the plants in, salt out and use a formalin & malachite green chem like Quickcure.....good all round shotgun med.

[-gb-]

OK Graham - I have some of that in my kit. How long would you suggest I dose the tank for & how much or should I just follow in instructions?

I'm just finishing up a water change now.

[Graham]

Follow the dosing instructions on the bottle

[-gb-]

will do. I'll check back in tomorrow and let you know how I'm making out.

thanks again everyone.

-gb-

[DDC]

Yeah will be good to see how they get on.

Shadows are another problem area for skittish fish, My fish used to get jumpy when the lights went out at night, I fitted an LED moonlight to come on just before lights out and this seems to ease them down rather than a sudden light out.
It is also timed before lights on in the morning. Bearing in mind though that my Discus are in the living room and not a fish house.

Keep us posted :D

[-gb-]

Hey DDC, Ya I've noticed that light suddenly coming on in the am and off in the pm really can really mess with the fish. Seeing as I have two 96w compact florescent in the tank I have a third light that comes on 1 hour before and after the main lights come on and off. They are all controlled by my AquaController. It's a great little device. That being said I do not have a night light for the tank. I'll look into getting one.

Graham - As for the fish the Quickcure has really helped in turning the juvis around. They are much more active and their colour is coming back. They are no longer darting and are eating more. They still have some way to go but they are heading in the correct direction.

My one adult is still really lethargic but seems to be doing a little better. He is still eating very little if at all. I'm thinking he may need to be treated for worms as an eventual next step.

For now how long should I continue with the current treatment. I've treated with Quickcure in the past only to see the symptoms return after the treatment ended. I want to make sure I keep the treatment up of as long as needed. So far I've dosed the tank 3x after their daily water change.

Thanks,

[-gb-]

My adult is still not eating and has cloudy eyes. He does have a little more colour but...

My juvis are all eating but are still a little dark & some of them have cloudy eyes.

Should I continue with the quickqure for a 5th treatment or move onto something stronger? It is helping but in the long run it may not fully cure the fish.

Any suggestions on next steps?

[-gb-]

ok so I'm on my 6th day with the quickqure and everyone is looking better. They still have cloudy eyes and their colour is 65%. The adult is definitely straggling but the juvies are coming around.

How long can I treat with quickqure? Can I increase the dosage or should I move onto something stronger?

thanks,

[Graham]

I think at this point I'd give them some major water changes and stop the QC doses for several days at least. Generally 3 to 4 days of QC will do the job.

G

[-gb-]

ok - thanks Graham

I'll continue with my 40% water changes every day and stop the QC for a few days and see what happens. I'm still worried that I don't have this thing licked. To me it looks like the QC has helped subside the symptoms but not cured the actual problem.

[Graham]

If that's the case then the wrong med is being used

[-gb-]

any suggestions on what to use next?

[Graham]

No, Not really....the QC is a great shotgun chem when you're not sure what might be wrong. F&MG won't wipe out flukes but will slow them down...so maybe go with Prazi after several days of really good water.

Don't have access to a scope

[-gb-]

no scope - I'll do some research on that and see about getting one in the near future.

For now I'll do a few days of good days of water changes and get back to you with my progress.

Thanks!

[robust discus]

Maybe you are changing too much water. Is the Ph of the new water the same as your tank. Ph shock can put discus in stress.

[MostlyDiscus]

Robust may be correct. From what I have read it seems that you have put alot of thought into it though. I have 3 ph meters and one fluid test kit for ph on my system just be sure about the ph. You may want to recheck just to be sure. With daily WC your ph should be ok though. You have one adult and 5 juvs? How long have they been together? Did you introduce any new fish into your system? Ed

[-gb-]

Thanks for the feedback. When I get home tonight I’ll check my PH in my holding tank. I know it’s a little higher than the PH in my show tank but I’ll check and give you the exact variance. I have a CO2 setup that knocks the ph down to what the show tank is set at rather quickly.

The adult I have had for years and he had these exact same symptoms a few weeks before I introduced the new fish. I thought I had him cured, although he was a little lethargic, but I thought this was caused by the fact he had been alone for a while. The new fish were introduced and after 10 days everything took a turn for the worse.

The juvs are still all still eating really well but have cloudy eyes and are stressed. The new fish came from a very reputable source. Any problem is my doing…

[-gb-]

ok the PH in my holding tank is 7.59 & the PH in my show tank between 7.0 & 7.05. Sometimes at night the PH goes down to 6.85. Is this enough variance to cause PH shock?

My CO2 system seems to counter the difference in PH almost as fast as the new water is pumped in. Could this also be a bad thing by pumping to much CO2 into the tank.

I also shut off my canister filter while I'm doing a water change. It usually takes me 30 min to empty and refill the tank. Could the water in the canister go toxic inside of 20-30min??

thanks,