Advice/Input Needed on Tank Setup

[bs6749]

I'm going to be getting some discus, maybe as early as tomorrow, and I will be putting them in my 55 gallon tank which is currently planted with various swords including: amazon, melon, red melon, radican and I have an anubias in there as well. The substrate is pool filter sand. I'm wanting to keep my discus in there and eventually put them into a 75 that I will buy in the future (will be moving in 2 months). Currently, the inhabitants of the tank include a BN pleco and 7 brilliant rasboras. I don't really want the rasboras and will find a new home for them but should I remove the BN pleco during the QT period?

I know it's easier to clean a tank that is bare bottom, but why is it that people tend to avoid planted discus tanks? Is it because of the substrate hindering the siphoning of the waste or is it something else? It would be okay to keep the plants in the tank and weigh them down with lead anchors and not have any substrate, right? This is what I'd like to do for now and in the future I think I will find a place for the plants and get rid of the lighting (130W CF 6700K bulbs) and turn to something that brings out the colors of the discus more.

Any suggestions on what I should do would be appreciated at this point as I need to get cleaning the tank soon if I want the fish tomorrow. I'll be getting rid of all the water in the tank and doing a mix of RO water and tap water. How many ppm's should I be looking to obtain for a discus tank? I know a lot of people go by microsiemens but how can I measure that and how much does the tool cost? Thank you.

[Elite Aquaria]

If you have a cycled tank from other fish and you put your new discus into that tank you are not QTing those fish. QT means they go into a fresh tank that has never had any fish in the past.

Here is what I do when I get new fish...I use Potassium Permanganate (PP) to sterilize my established tank for approximately 2 hours...I then add a few caps full of Hydrogen Peroxide to neutralize the PP. Then I scrub the sides and completely drain the tank of old water. I refill the tank squeeze out the sponge filters and add my dechlorinate to remove the Chlorine from my tap water.

Buy doing this I still have some Biological load left in my sponge filter and within 5-7 days it will come back to full capacity...Yes the PP will kill off some of the good bacteria.

Another approach that I have used is to Bleach the tank and filter for approx 2 hours then I rinse and let it air dry in the sun. Then I scrub the sides and completely drain the tank of old water. I refill the tank squeeze out the sponge filters and add my dechlorinate to remove the Chlorine from my tap water. The only problem hear is that you will need to do a fishless cycle for at least 2-4 weeks to establish your bioload.

Also make sure that your new fish do not have any contact with any other fish you have...This includes filters, siphon hose, nets and even your fingers if they have been in another tank...I was talking with a good friend of mine the other day and he said he even uses alcohol to sterilize his hands between feeding his new fish and the rest of his fish room.

I would contact your seller and see what he/she recommends...If they can not help give me a call at 954.385.9106 and I will answer any other questions you may have my friend. Good luck

[brewmaster15]

Hi,
When you say you are getting discus as early as tomarrow, can I ask what size you are thinking of? Discus in a planted substrate tank are possible , many have done this...it does require some care though....
Its far easier to go that route with young adults to adults than juveniles.... Juvenile discus require alot of food to grow to their full potential..the waste alone from that poses a big probelm to a planted tank...not to mention the discus living in it.

Also give strong thought to where you get the discus from...Breeders and sellers that focus on discus are your best bet.....sellers found on this forum are an awesome starting point....especially if any are located near you and you can visit and hand pick.

On the water... What are your normal tap water parameters?...Ro water is not necessary to keep discus, though for many it is needed to breed them... what you want to avoid is fluctuations in pH and water parameters in general....Domestic Discus are successfully kept in a very wide range of pH and Hardness.

hth,
al

[bs6749]

Thank you both for your input and advice.

First, EliteAquaria: What I wanted to do was to take EVERYTHING out of my 55 and house the discus in there. I was going to throw out the PFS and get rid of most of the plants, putting only a few back in there (snail free ones). I had planned on cleaning out my XP3 but I didn't want to sterilize anything in the tank as I didn't want to lose my biological filter. I have a spare unopened and never used sponge filter I can use if you think I should go that route for the QT period. I understand that my biological filter may not be "necessary" as I'll be doing PWC's often.

Is it really necessary to bleach/use an oxidizer like KMnO4 or is a very thorough wipedown sufficient? I'd rather do it the right way than be sorry...maybe I'll have to wait until next week to pick up the fish, the guy already said that it was okay for me to do so and maybe that would be my best bet. If I run into any problems, I will give you a ring, I appreciate your help.

Brewmaster15: I am thinking of getting 3"+ fish for the same reasons that you gave. I will PM you some pictures of the fish I am getting and maybe you can let me know what you think about them and their quality. I'm not sure what you mean about the waste being a problem in a planted tank. I thought the fish waste was GOOD for the plants. As for the water hardness, I used the Jungle quick dip strips and it says my ppm's are between 150 and 300, leaning more towards the 150 color. My guess is 200-225 ppms and that's the reason for me wanting to do a percentage of RO water. Maybe 1:3 RO:tap which will cut down on the cost and allow me to do more frequent changes. I'm pretty far from an RO source and can't have a unit in my apartment but I can get 20 gallons of RO every week when I go to work. The only thing I'm really worried about is the evaporation which will raise my hardness if I keep replacing with the same constant ratio.

I know what you are saying about quality fish and making sure to buy from a breeder rather than the LFS, which usually tends to have lots of footballs and bug-eyed stock readily available...the whole point for this tank is wanting to have something that LOOKS nice, and quality is of the utmost importance to me when purchasing fish. I actually won't purchase from a seller where I can't hand pick! I have looked through retailer's pages on here and I have seen some AWESOME fish, but I have seen some that I'm not really interested in. That's not a knock against the retailers as the fish they have are all outstanding it's just that I want to pick out a fish with a certain characteristic, like being the nicest shape or the most brilliant color, or being the dominant one in the tank. That's something I wouldn't be able to do with a mail order unless I saw a picture of each fish and the retailer worked with me...okay, enough of my babbling.

Edit: I think I see your point about the young discus in a planted tank. Were you referring to overfeeding and the food turning into ammonia and not the fish waste?

[Elite Aquaria]

Is it really necessary to bleach/use an oxidizer like KMnO4 or is a very thorough wipedown sufficient? I'd rather do it the right way than be sorry...maybe I'll have to wait until next week to pick up the fish, the guy already said that it was okay for me to do so and maybe that would be my best bet. If I run into any problems, I will give you a ring, I appreciate your help.

In my opinion YES it is necessary...if not you run the risk that your existing tank has some parasites/bacteria which could get your discus sick.

Simply wiping down the sides will do nothing to the possible parasites/bacteria which may be present in your tank.

[bs6749]

Hmmm....so thinking along those same lines, I should probably get rid of the plants/substrate and sterilize the heater, powerhead, add a new sponge filter and not use my XP3 canister filter? I should also bleach the XP3 filter/foam pads, and all of the media, essentially starting my cycle from scratch? Is this what you are saying?

Maybe I'd be better off just selling my XP3 and 130W light setup and putting that money towards the 75 that I want. I should be able to get $175+ out of those two combined and that could really come in handy.

How many people out there have a discus "show tank" that is bare bottomed and has just a sponge filter or two in it? I just want to see how common this is. Maybe I could add some nice plastic/silk plants, and I do have some driftwood that I could boil and add at a later date, though I know from previously using it that the tannins will turn the water more brown, which I'm hoping won't take away from the color of the discus. If I were going with wilds, I wouldn't hesitate to put driftwood in there but the strains available nowadays seem like they might not be best viewed in the dirtier looking water.

[Elite Aquaria]

Yes that is what I recommend...