A "problem" with cycle... or not?

[Abu]

Hi Everybody,

I'm kind of new to this hobby so I decided to ask for some help from you nice people.

A few words about my tank (I only have one): it's a Juwel Rio 300 (don't know if it's a known brand in US - anyway it has 350l gross volume) which comes with a standard internal filter, 300W heater and 2x54W light tubes on which I added reflectors. Besides the default setup I also run an external canister filter (Tetratec EX1200). The tank is not so much planted (a few Echinodorus bleheri, osiris, ozelot, some Crypts, Anubias) - you might call it a low-tech setup.

I started the tank 2 weeks ago with 8 Corries and 2 dozes of JBL FilterStart (this is a product which claims it contains live bacteria). After the first week my ammonia and nitrite test kits still didn't show anything so I decided to add an extra 8 cardinal tetras. Now, after 2 weeks, still nothing. All water parameters are OK, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 20mg/l nitrate, PH 7, KH4.
I intend to buy some 8 juvenile Discus (2-2,5 inches) after about 3 weeks (from now) but I don't know how to proceed. Shall I buy all of them at once (knowing that they do better in groups) or buy 2 - 3 each week in order not to disturb my biological filter which hopefully exist?
Why can't I find any traces of ammonia or nitrite in my tank? Is it normal to take that long to cycle?

In case you wonder why I didn't choose the fishless cycle: here, where I live, it’s impossible to find pure ammonia.

Thank you all for your suggestions,
Alex.

[BSW]

That is about a 100 gallon tank.
A two week set up, isn't long at all to cycle in 350L. And I would guess it probably still hasn't fully cycled yet. You haven't put a very heavy bio load on the tank so far. But you are saying you will wait about 3 more weeks to purchase the Discus. By then some good bacteria should be established.
I would buy all the Discus at once, and from the same source if possible.
Then be sure to keep up with your water changes, and keep an eye on the fish. Once they add a full load to the tank, you may need to do daily water changes for a week or even two.
I wish you the best with them, be sure to post pics for us to see ! :D
B

[Abu]

Thank you for your help!

So I will buy all fish at once and follow with daily water changes for a week or two until the tank is stable. How about before I buy them (Discus) can I do a wc (I care a lot for the fish I have and I want to provide the best environment for them too) and if so, how often?
I forgot to mention that I use a mix of 75/25% RO/tap water, cause my water is too hard (and also the PH is ~8.5 straight from the tap).

Alex.

[BSW]

Absolutly !
I really don't think there is such a thing a "too many" water changes for Discus. Once you are really familiar with your tank, and it is totally stable, you will be able to set up a regular (but frequent) water change schedule.
If your buying youngsters though, there is also no such thing as "to clean" of a tank or "to frequent" water changes. They need lots of good food, and lots of good water to grow and do well ! And be sure to keep em' warm.
B

[Abu]

Thank you, now I know what to do!
When I'll have more questions on the way I'll definitely ask here, you really are very helpful people!

[BSW]

Your welcome -
Yes this is a very nice forum, second to none !
The experienced one's here are very, very helpful, they shoot straight, and do the best they can for you, and even the less experienced one's (like myself) are always here for support.
Enjoy your fish !
BTW, Romania is beautiful, show us a little of it when you can :D
B

[bavaria36]

Alex,

I would be very careful about assuming that the filter is cycled. A couple of years ago I had a similar set up to yours and it never cycled properly. As I was worried about the fish I kept making WC's too so that only made the problem worse. Once you add 8 juveniles the ammonia will spike especially if you feed them properly and this could cause problems.

I have recently done a fishless cycle in a 400 ltr tank and I monitored NH3, NO2, NO3 every day. It took over a month for the cycle to complete and the second phase ( when the nitrite bacteria start to establish themselves ) took around two weeks.

If at all possible I would recommend that you take the cories and tetras out for a couple of weeks and try and complete a fishless cycle. This will really boost your filter and gear it up for when you add the discus.

BTW, I've been to Ploesti. Romania's a cool place.

Aaron

[Abu]

Hi Aaron,

it's a small world, you know what they say. I wish I come to US at least once in my lifetime :)

Anyway, the problem with following your advice is that I can't find pure ammonia anywhere, and I searched a lot before starting the tank. What's more, I don't have any other tanks to move the fish.
You might have a point there saying that the tank may not be cycled as I just discovered the the tap water has 20mg/l nitrates level and this is the same in my aquarium, so either the fish waste is too small or the plants eat all the extra nitrate (which I find hard to believe since the setup is so new).
So, what other options I have besides a fishless cycle? Shall I add more fish slowly, shall I stop doing water changes?

Thanks for the help,
Alex.

[bavaria36]

Alex,

are you quite sure that you cannot find ammonia in the local supermarket stores ? It's a very common disinfectant. It could be labelled under some brand name in the section where they keep detergents and cleaning stuff. If you do find something , just make sure that it is pure ammonia with no detergents added.

If you do not find ammonia solution you could still perform a fishless cycle by adding some fish food or a couple of frozen shrimps to the water. That should produce enough ammonia to get the cycle going. You could place the cories and tetras in a small 10 gallon for a short time.

If a fishless cycle is not an option then try and add more fish slowly. I just think that it will be difficult to do that with discus.

In order to monitor the progress I suggest that you keep an eye out for the Nitrite reading. I find it easier than monitoring the ammonia level ( which requires a test kit ) or nitrate which is already present in the tap water. Nitrite can usually be tested using strips and there should be a zero reading in the tap water. So when I suddenly see the nitrite reading I know that the cycle is progressing well. It's not done at this point of course but its a good indicator.

Aaron

[Abu]

The thing is, all ammonia products I can find have some sort of perfume mixed and I think it's too risky to use it.
I have test kits for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate, KH, PH and Fe and they are all OK for now.
I'll just wait a couple of more weeks before I buy the discus, and I am considering even buying more tetras in the meantime, just to be sure that the bio filter can handle it. I am also thinking about adding Sera Nitrivec just before buying some more fish.
Did you ever tried this product?

Alex.

[bavaria36]

Never tried it. Is it a bacteria starter ?

Aaron

[Abu]

Never tried it. Is it a bacteria starter ?

Aaron

I'm sorry, I keep forgetting that in US there are other brands known than in Europe. Yes, it's a bacteria starter.
http://www.sera.de/index.php?id=288&L=1

[Abu]

Saturday I added an extra 8 cardinal tetras and 2 SAEs. No trace of ammonia or nitrite to this day. Does this mean my biofilter is working properly or is it too early to say?