Four week syndrome: when (and if) to Prazi?

[judy]

My dirty dozen (what a small spawn, but it's their first success) are now two weeks old. I recall threads about four-week syndrome connected with the transfer of gill flukes to the babies.
Should I dose with PraziPro-- and if so, when would be best?:confused:

[Graham]

Hi Judy, I can't comment on using P Pro with fry but if there are flukes in the system, either skin or gill, because they are generally found together, they won't be too worried if the fry are 2 weeks, 4 weeks or 6 weeks old.


I see no reason why flukes looking for a host would wait till the fry are 4 weeks old to attach themselves. They, would be a host at any age.


Graham

[discus_north]

I agree, alot of people used to say it was gill flukes, or blame gill flukes.

But the truth is more to do with the fry that stop getting the immunity through feeding from the parents, and are exposed to bacteria and protozoan attack, when left to fend for themselves.

http://www.forum.bidka.org/showthread.php?t=891

http://www.forum.bidka.org/showthread.php?t=3912

good posts above.

cheers stephen.

[judy]

Hmmm. Well, since I only have a dozen fry, and they are even at two weeks spending a good deal of time off the parent, which gives him a break from being nibbled on, perhaps I will just try leaving him with the young 'uns until they pass six or even seven weeks....

[Rod]

It seems to me that is people are having problems with disease on young fry then they have adults carrying an infection. I think i would be treating adults so the fry are healthier and then no use of meds will be required. Adding heavy metals, chemicals and other drugs to tiny baby animals cannot be a very good thing unless you have absolutely no choice.

[airbus123]

maybe you could try feeding more regularly, this syndrome dying off of baby discus happened to me for the 1st 2 batches, subsequently i guessed i fed too little. and now in the 6th batch of fries, all are doing well. less than 5% of death.

[judy]

oh, they're fed plenty-- started with cyclopeez and bbs and have now moved onto add finely powdered high-quality flake food. I expect they'll be onto bloodworm any day now. Beefheart will have to wait a bit, until their mouths are big enough to munch it.

[doc3toes]

i found that i wasn't doing enough water changes and i had quite high mortality at 2-4 weeks. When i did PMs i found a lot of bacterial gill infection. Never did culture the bacteria though. Keep the water CLEAN.

[Ku Arif]

i found that i wasn't doing enough water changes and i had quite high mortality at 2-4 weeks. When i did PMs i found a lot of bacterial gill infection. Never did culture the bacteria though. Keep the water CLEAN.

Sorry for bringing this matter up, but during water change did you just pour the water straight into the tank or did you slowly drip it ?

[RogueDiscus]

This is a very old thread, so may r may not be relevant. I think the 4-week die off is still mostly attributed to problems passed from the parents, including gill flukes. Adults may carry them but their bodies can manage. It seems it takes a while, but eventually they succumb. I've never dripped water and it has not caused any problems with either my fry or adults..

[Willie]

My experience is similar to Steve's. Adult discus can carry gill flukes with no obvious symptoms, but they can devastate fry. I've tried Prazi and never had any success with it. (Once, I spawned a pair of discus in Prazi, hatched out the wrigglers in Prazi, and still lost the spawn.) Other people have reported success with it, just not me.

When the fry become distressed (gasping at the top of the water), I use formalin. 1 - 2 drops per gallon in heavily aerated water (in a bucket). If they keel over, I change out the medication with fresh water. It seems harsh, but this treatment did work for me.

Willie

[jimmyjoe]

My experience is similar to Steve's. Adult discus can carry gill flukes with no obvious symptoms, but they can devastate fry. I've tried Prazi and never had any success with it. (Once, I spawned a pair of discus in Prazi, hatched out the wrigglers in Prazi, and still lost the spawn.) Other people have reported success with it, just not me.

When the fry become distressed (gasping at the top of the water), I use formalin. 1 - 2 drops per gallon in heavily aerated water (in a bucket). If they keel over, I change out the medication with fresh water. It seems harsh, but this treatment did work for me.

Willie

Where may I ask did you get this formalin that your speaking about, cause I would sure like some. Jim in Ohio

[Ku Arif]

This is a very old thread, so may r may not be relevant. I think the 4-week die off is still mostly attributed to problems passed from the parents, including gill flukes. Adults may carry them but their bodies can manage. It seems it takes a while, but eventually they succumb. I've never dripped water and it has not caused any problems with either my fry or adults..

Thank you so much for your info Sir, up until now my blue diamond fry is down from 70+ till become 11 until today. It was the first batch. I will see if there is any major improvement on the upcoming batch. If I do close up look I can see most of the fry is sink down to the bottom and gasping for an air.

[Ku Arif]

My experience is similar to Steve's. Adult discus can carry gill flukes with no obvious symptoms, but they can devastate fry. I've tried Prazi and never had any success with it. (Once, I spawned a pair of discus in Prazi, hatched out the wrigglers in Prazi, and still lost the spawn.) Other people have reported success with it, just not me.

When the fry become distressed (gasping at the top of the water), I use formalin. 1 - 2 drops per gallon in heavily aerated water (in a bucket). If they keel over, I change out the medication with fresh water. It seems harsh, but this treatment did work for me.

Willie

Mine has been undergo Pp bath during the fry was at 2 weeks old, (I Pp both of the parents too) yet I did not found any success. during that time my fry was at number of 45+. I did not have any specific measurement of how many mgm Pp that was going to be used. I just stop dosing Pp once I saw the water gives light pink/purple hue color.

[jeep]

Hello Ku, and thanks for stopping by the forum. As I said, you will find many answers and lots of help here!!

PP, Prazi and formalin are all good treatments for flukes. If you're losing fry because of flukes, it's best to clean the parents up before they spawn.

If you're losing them because of water quality issues, we would really like to know your water parameters and water change routine.

Although you seem to be an experienced discus keeper, many times, people will jump to the conclusion they are dealing with flukes when it can also be as simple as a slight ammonia build-up, which can have the same deadly effects. :)

Brian

[fishbubbles]

I just wanted to clear something up about dosing with potassium permangeate. I see too many people mentioning dosing by either color or by teaspoons, I know this may work for some people but PP can be lethal to fry if not done correctly. For adults I will dose at 2 mg/L for a 4 hour bath whereas fry are dosed with 1 mg/L. I will typically clean the tanks as best as I can before dosing because PP oxidise's any organics and may be neutralized too quickly if there is too many organics in the tank.

For example a 40 gallon tank converts to 151 liters, so I will add 0.151 grams of PP to the tank for fry or 0.302 grams for adults. PP can quickly be neutralized with seachem prime or hydrogen peroxide if problems start to arise.