5/31/08 no pics, just update

[alxjss]

Hi everyone. I didn't take pics this time. Seems nothing is going on w/them except light eating. It kinda bothers me because the fish i got from Dan r eating like no tomorrow. They r approximately the same age. Why did these guys go from eating everything to leaving food in the tank and i have to scoop it out. Dans fish, on the other hand, I have to feed double what i feed the alenqers. Any suggestions????:(
The filtration on the alenqer tank is different tho. I have 2 sponges and an aquaclear110 in the other tank and the challange fish have a sponge and a fluval and i just added a aquaclear 20 filter i had laying around. I don't want to buy another filter because i am setting up my 150 gal w/sump. I have to admit tho, i have been slacking on w/c's. I am having foot probs so i save my foot for work. When i get home, i can barely walk. Oh, and don't think my 15 yr old wants to help... so saaadddd:(

[Condor]

Hi Eileen! Sorry to hear about your foot.:( It does sound like something is bothering your discsus, or maybe they are just tired of growing lol.:D Have you changed anything recently? I would check the water perameters to start with, just to rule that out.

Adrian

[alxjss]

Hi Adrian, nothing has changed except the w/c's. The parms r good. Trates r at 2 but go down when i do the w/c. I can manage 2 xs a wk but i KNOW i must do it more. But, like i said, the other ones get the same treatment and they still eat crazy. They still r skittish a bit because they r in a diff rm but i do visit as much as possible. I am gonna try to do more w/c's and then on the weekend, clean the tank. The tank does get pretty funky tho...:confused:

[brewmaster15]

Hi Eileen,
Are there more fish in one tank than the other?
How many in each and whats the tank sizes again?
-al

[alxjss]

Hi Al. The challagers (6) r in a 55 gal w/ a fluval 404, a sponge big enough for a 125gal, and a aquaclear 20. Again, w/c's r lacking.
There r 7 in a 40gal breeder that r from dan, which I have 2 sponges, enough for a 60 gal, and an aquaclear 110. Again, the same w/c as the 55 gal. But, i did have 3 plecos in w/ the alenqurs, but they dissappeared one day a while back. They r definately not eating well because i did a major clean today, waited until they were out and about, fed fbw's, and ate only about half, which took a long time for that. I watched them and they seem interested but not attacking like my others!!!! Something is wrong and i must say its my fault because of the w/c's They caught something but not sure what. They r more skittish then normal also.
Keep in mind, i will not treat unless advised. Don't want to make them worse.
I was having heater probs a while ago, but now is stable. Goes to 84.5 and the lowest is 83. Is that ok? I need help i am sure. Thanks Al.

[alxjss]

Well, i just did another feeding. All race to the food, take a couple of bites and thats that. All the food sits there. I leave it in for about an hr, then i have to net the left overs, which r plenty. They fool me cause i think they r hungry. They greet me, beg for the food, but only eat just alittle bit. Man, what happened?????:confused:

[brewmaster15]

Eileen,
I don't think anythings wrong at all.:) AS a discus grows their appetite can change.......Juvies eat like pigs... young adults less so.....and adults 1-2 times a day feedings are pretty average..... Karens noticed similar issues with hers ... I think you'll see some developmental changes starting... bulking up, coloration and fin size.... as for the foods... take note of what they like best.... even that can change as they get older. Be sure that they aren't "not eating" and that really what is happening is that they are eating less and becoming more selective in what they eat.

I would bring the temp up though ....see if you can get it to 86-87F..that may increase the appetite.


One thing to note....
6 fish in a 55 and 7 in a 40 is alot different... When you have more fish in a smaller tank...theres more competition for the food in a smaller area... and less space between the fish eating..... A fish in that situation has to eat fast and furious or get left out... That may be part of what you see when you are looking at the two groups.. Additionally... comparing two different strains of fish growth is like comparing apples and oranges....

last note...look back over anything you have been doing different...have you gotten busy and changed anything as result.?

I guess , in closing... be patient. and don't forget to enjoy the fish:):):)

-al

[alxjss]

Eileen,
I don't think anythings wrong at all.:) AS a discus grows their appetite can change.......Juvies eat like pigs... young adults less so.....and adults 1-2 times a day feedings are pretty average..... Karens noticed similar issues with hers ... I think you'll see some developmental changes starting... bulking up, coloration and fin size.... as for the foods... take note of what they like best.... even that can change as they get older. Be sure that they aren't "not eating" and that really what is happening is that they are eating less and becoming more selective in what they eat.

I would bring the temp up though ....see if you can get it to 86-87F..that may increase the appetite.


One thing to note....
6 fish in a 55 and 7 in a 40 is alot different... When you have more fish in a smaller tank...theres more competition for the food in a smaller area... and less space between the fish eating..... A fish in that situation has to eat fast and furious or get left out... That may be part of what you see when you are looking at the two groups.. Additionally... comparing two different strains of fish growth is like comparing apples and oranges....

last note...look back over anything you have been doing different...have you gotten busy and changed anything as result.?

I guess , in closing... be patient. and don't forget to enjoy the fish:):):)

-al

Al, i have been observing the challengers, and I came to the same conclusion. I didn't realize different strains were actually "different". I thought a discus was a discus reguardless of the strain. :confused:
I am very glad that things r good. I am doing more w/c's, even w/ the pain in my foot. The days when it isn't soooo bad, i can manage. I tend to be a BIG BABY @ times when it comes to pain so i need to tuff it up.
THANKS AL, i really appreciate the feedback. I will enjoy my fish!!!!:)

[pcsb23]

Eileen,

First get that foot sorted out! Then worry about the fish :) I think Al has it right about the eating too. Good luck.

[alxjss]

Eileen,

First get that foot sorted out! Then worry about the fish :) I think Al has it right about the eating too. Good luck.

Hi Paul.... I am seeing a podiatrist now but it takes time. I have several issues so he is taking one at a time. :( I want it fixed ''yesterday'':mad:
I have stopped feeding tbits to all for now. They seem to take a long time to eat so I gave them a break for a while. Nice to hear from u Paul:)

[Armandi_Fishcarer]

Hi Eileen,

Hope all gets better for you soon. :)

I definetly would fix my health issues before my pets although careful not to neglect them.

You are doing a fantastic job. Discus will get off the heavy eating as they get older & appearance will start changing as already stated.

I have many different types & some of the sub-adults are starting to display this. LSS's, BD's, WB's, SM's, MB's just naming some. Changes I have made to some tanks, were reduced feedings or less feed 1-2times daily & w/c's 1-2week.

The key is knowing 'your' Discus i.e. how they react too foods, w/c's, when they look 'happy' - how to keep them happy & its not necessary, just by feed.

Regards Armandi ;)

[alxjss]

Hi all. I no we concluded nothing was wrong, but the more i look the more i am convinced there is something wrong. They r just not eating normal. No matter what i feed I wind up taking out the food. Both my tanks, eat crazy. I can't get them to eat all of the food. Its hard to explain, but i try to watch them and they hide and don't eat. I will watch them from another room, and they just don't have the umph the others do. They don't even fight over anything. What could be happening? I am really concerned because w/o eating, they won't grow and w/o growth, I don't win. Can anyone come up w/ something? Is anyone else having these problems? I don't no what to do. I even turned the temp up but NOT!!!

[brewmaster15]

Eileen,
My advice....Try skipping feeding them for a day...yes you read that right...No food for a day or two... at their size ...they'll be fine not eating for a day or two.... Then feed them something like Hikari Blood worms...and see what happens..

-al

[MostlyDiscus]

Whens the last time they ate alxjss?

[alxjss]

They eat alittle each night, but nothing like my other ones. They attack the food. My alenqers pick and i have to remove what is left. In my other tanks, nothing is left to remove but poop:confused:

[alxjss]

Here r some pics. U can't see anything too bad but check out the one w/the black face. Real weird:confused:
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s294/alxjss/discuchallange011.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s294/alxjss/discuchallange007-1.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s294/alxjss/discuchallange010.jpg
That guy w/the black face has a real light body. Can't really tell in the pic. The other side of his face is normal:confused:
ps, don't laugh @ my backround. I am working on it!!!

[brewmaster15]

Eileen,
The one with the dark face... one side only.. that should pass..you mentioned the fish are skittish.. "blackened "areas like that are what often happens when a fish crashes into something.

Somethings definetly making them skittish. From your last thread you mentioned that they were skittish
They still r skittish a bit because they r in a diff rm but i do visit as much as possible. I am gonna try to do more w/c's and then on the weekend, clean the tank. The tank does get pretty funky tho...:confused: If you are working alot and slacking on the wcs ( which means you probably aren't in there as much)..That may help explain the skittishness.. It may have to do with the tank position, room traffic or lack thereof and lighting...

Healthwise...they have no sign of disease...no off colored feces , nothing but stress and appetite changes.. Usually these things come from tank conditions, water quality, lighting and tank position.
Are the challenger fish in the same room as the two other tanks that you are comparing them to?

-al

[alxjss]

Hi Al. I sent u a pm. One fish died. I discovered him this morn when i turned on the light.:cry: The biggest one, "al" is acting funny too. I have neglected these guys because of some med probs. Anything could be wrong.

[GrillMaster]

Eileen...I notice there is no prefilter sponge on the uptake. You might have food waste sitting in the filter. Clean out the filter and get a prefilter sponge on there. As much as we feed em, it doesn't take to much for extra food to get sucked up into the filter. You might have a high phosphate and nitrate issue that has curbed their appetite.

[alxjss]

I went in the fish rm this morn and noticed something real strange about one of the challanger fish. He seemed way off color and when i looked close, he wasn't breathing. I removed him and noticed the biggest one Sabetta acting strange. I quickly set up a 10 gal and transferred him. This is what is happening. I don't no right now if he is still alive. I haven't been in there for about 5min. Here r some pics.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s294/alxjss/discuchallange003-1.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s294/alxjss/discuchallange004-1.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s294/alxjss/discuchallange005-1.jpg


Without thought, i added maracyn 1&2. Then i added epsom salt. 2 tbsp / gal. I have held him straight, moved him back and forth to try and keep him breathing. Its a waiting game now.

[brewmaster15]

Eileen,
That fish is bloated... either he ate too much or has a bacterial infection..

look close at the rest of the challenger fish...are they at all swollen in the abdomen.?

-al

ps...I merged all these threads

[alxjss]

No other fish r bloated, but i have that one w/the black face on one side and real light, almost beige color bkrd w/ the dark stripes. I also see black feces. Only one tho. Didnot feed, and turnd off the lights.

[alxjss]

Well, Sabetta died @ 10:40 somthing. Oh I have NEVER had this prob. This is overwhelming.....:cry:

[alxjss]

here they r....:(
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s294/alxjss/discuchallange006-1.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s294/alxjss/discuchallange007-2.jpg

The others r in the tank now. I plan on removing some of the water and maybe give them a dose of epsom salt. 2 tbsp/gal. I will try that. They r in darkness now, trying to keep them calm.

[pinkertd]

Hi Eileen, I'm so sad that you are having problems, I know how heartbreaking losing even one is let along two. Are you keeping a journal of some sort? When I look back at your posts, it seems you noticed something different with them around 5/13. 5/7 they seemed fine and the pictures of them are fine. During that time you began to have heater problems. You said the tank was getting too warm and you had to turn one off. How warm was it? I know bacteria really thrive at elevated temperatures. I also know you were feeding live cbw, which you said you stopped sometime before your 5/15 posting. I don't know much about cbw except I'm afraid that my discus would eventually get a bad one and get sick. And I'm just throwing this out there for everyone to think about. Is it possible that with a period of elevated temperature in that tank, that some kind of bacteria that the cbw carries could become intestinally dangerous to the fish? Or even multiply at such a rapid rate where normally the fish could handle it, but with a rapid multiplication of it they would get sick internally? A bit of a food poisoning of the fish kind of thing? Even if you slacked off on the water changes down to 2 a week, it wouldn't kill them like this. Do you check the nitrate level right before a water change (on this 2X a week schedule) just to see what it is? And isn't the other tank on the same water change schedule and same food? I'm hoping someone can recommend a med for internal bacterial infection that you can try. Chin up hon, my fingers are crossed for you that this thing gets solved.

[alxjss]

I did try some fbh from my lfs around this time. Its hard to put my hands on it. I have no clue as to what is going on. I think i will loose one more too. The one w/the dark face.....:(

[alxjss]

I just did a 60% w/c. Lights out all day. Have it pretty dark in the main tank. There r 4 left. My 2 biggest ones didn't make it. I will be monoriting these guys often to check on their health and behavior. I will keep u posted. Thanks for all the support:angel:

[two utes]

Eileen, l am very sorry to read that you are having these problems. Trust me when l say that l feel your pain.
I hope that you can work out what the problem is soon.
I wish that l can offer you some suggestions, as this sounds a bit familuar to my saga.
Most importantly though. Look after yourself first.:):):)

[alxjss]

Yes Joe, i no u can feel my pain. Thanks for the kind words, ur a sweetheart!

[LostAcres]

Oh man, I just saw this thread. I am so sorry!!! I do hope you find out what caused your loss. My thoughts are with you

[Armandi_Fishcarer]

Hi Eileen

Sorry to hear about your losses.

You aren't doing to bad, & don't think the w/c thing did it unless the peram's were out too much.

One thing I would recommending if lacking on w/c's though is less feed daily. The fish will still grow nicely, although a little slower.

A sponge on the inlet will help as already mentioned although should be rinsed out regularly.

All the best, hope all goes well with the rest.

Regards Armandi ;)

[alxjss]

Thanks armandi. I am monoriting the rest right now. I have had the lights off all day. Will see what tom brings....

[phidelt85]

Hey, Eileen! I'm really sorry you're going through these troubles, I do know how frustrating it can be. How are they doin' today? Keep your head up; I'm sure you'll be able to turn them around especially with the help from here. I wish I could offer up more advice on how to turn them around but I'm sure Al gettin' ya squared away on that end. ;)

[alxjss]

thanks jose. I should've noticed these guys getting sooo skittish, i didn't even notice the swelling in Sabetta. They didn't come to me like normal for awhile and i didn't notice. Wow...... really, its my own fault. I have had foot probs and i should've had my son do it but i couldn't stand that long to show him how. he will learn when i can stand that long:(

[phidelt85]

Well, it is a sad sight to see them pass from something preventable; however, you gotta take care of yourself first and get yourself feeling good.