dying discus

[miasria]

i'm new to discus, but not new to fish. i had 7 discus in a 55 gallon tank. watching the ph, changing water, etc. i've had these fish for a month or so and they seemed to be doing fine. one was littler than the other two from the same batch though.

this past weekend i did a thorough cleaning of the bottom and may have taken too much water out. needless to say, i lost two of the little ones. maybe 2 inches. the rest are 4 inches or so.

what i don't understand is that after the water change, my ph dropped significantly and i don't know why. i checked my tap water and it was much higher than what ended up in my tank.

my nitrates, nitrites, amonia were all good. the ph is what dropped. i noticed that the little ones started to get dark in color so i bought a ph stablizer. this morning they were dead.

the others seem to be fine and are eating well. there were 3 that were from the same batch. one was smaller than the other two, which may have been do to being weak anyways. i'm not sure on that.

any ideas?

[1077]

If you could post exactly what your Ammonia,nitrite and nitrate readings are and what type of test kit you are using Strips or liquid then perhaps it would help eliminate or identify any possible problems. I will say that sometimes when the gravel is cleaned really well and perhaps has not been done in sometime that very high nitrates can be the results. Test kits that use strips are not that accurate.

[Moon]

Did you age the water before doing water change?

[DiscusDude85]

Large water changes shouldnt hurt your fish, They should only benefit from them, Discus love lots of fresh new water. Many members here change 100% a day some even more than that!. I for one dont have that kind of time, In my bb growout tank i change 50% every morning, And in my show tank i change 25% every night. Like others have asked did you age your water? Was your tank cycled? What level of ammonia?, Nitrate, Nitrite and ph?
Keep us informed.



Joe

[miasria]

thank you all for your questions. i am using the api freshwater master test kit. my nitrate was at 0 and has been for some time now. this is a cycled tank of about 8 months or so. my nitrites are also at 0. same with ammonia. the ph dropped to 6.4 and was somewhere around 7.0. i need to keep a log on this since i'm checking regularly. i do not have a hardness test. should i get one? the water here is hard.

what i don't understand is why my ph would drop like that, when the tap water is much higher.

i did do a thorough cleaning. i have about 3 inches of gravel. i know i stirred up some stuff, but when it all settled, i checked my levels. i put the tubes down by the gravel when i filled the water to make sure i was getting lower level water.

that evening i add a small amount of flourite to the front top layer.. less than an inch in the front part of the tank.

i added a ph buffer, but i think i was too late. either that or i stressed the fish too much. i don't know.

i did not age the water, but i do use the drops.

[1077]

Have these fish been in the tank for eight months? Or are they new fish? what fish were in the tank before the discus were introduced and how long were those fish in the tank? I am having trouble imagining seven or eight discus in a 55 gal. with no detectable nitrates. If these fish are new were they acclimated slowly? As mentioned earlier a really good cleaning of the gravel can release nitrates if it has not been cleaned in some time.This can cause ph to drop see(old tank syndrome) You mentioned flourite is there CO2 injection on the tank? high levels of CO2 contribute to ph drops. In my view mucking around in the substrate is best done before fish are introduced to the tank this applys to any fish. PH up or down products do what they say but the effect is temporary. I would run five gal of tapwater and let it set for 12 hours and then test the ph. It will be what it will be and whether it is 6.4 or 7.0 your fish should adapt as long as their enviornment is stable.It is also possible on new tanks to clean too much. by that I mean that gravel can be cleaned to the point that beneficial bacteria needed to break down ammonia and nitrites can be wiped out. Add to this the possible changing of filter material where much of the bacteria(the good kind) colonizes and you essentially have an uncycled aquarium.I am sure you are aware of most of this and it is my hope that maybe some of what I have wrote will help you and others as well.

[miasria]

Have these fish been in the tank for eight months? Or are they new fish? what fish were in the tank before the discus were introduced and how long were those fish in the tank? I am having trouble imagining seven or eight discus in a 55 gal. with no detectable nitrates. If these fish are new were they acclimated slowly? As mentioned earlier a really good cleaning of the gravel can release nitrates if it has not been cleaned in some time.This can cause ph to drop see(old tank syndrome) You mentioned flourite is there CO2 injection on the tank? high levels of CO2 contribute to ph drops. In my view mucking around in the substrate is best done before fish are introduced to the tank this applys to any fish. PH up or down products do what they say but the effect is temporary. I would run five gal of tapwater and let it set for 12 hours and then test the ph. It will be what it will be and whether it is 6.4 or 7.0 your fish should adapt as long as their enviornment is stable.It is also possible on new tanks to clean too much. by that I mean that gravel can be cleaned to the point that beneficial bacteria needed to break down ammonia and nitrites can be wiped out. Add to this the possible changing of filter material where much of the bacteria(the good kind) colonizes and you essentially have an uncycled aquarium.I am sure you are aware of most of this and it is my hope that maybe some of what I have wrote will help you and others as well.


the fish that i had in there before were the angelfish. i've had them for about 4 months. some algae eaters, pleco, catfish and 2 honey gouramis. these were all put in about the same time.

i didn't know about the old tank syndrome. i'll read up on that. since i got the testing kit i've been checking every day. i have no nitirites or nitrates. i was surprised since i did clean thoroughly the gravel. but i checked the levels about an hour or so after i cleaned it. i put the tubes down towards the bottom and filled them with water.

i could have very well had high levels, but with the amount of water that i siphoned out, i think that took care of it.

i don't have co2 injections. i read that the flourite would not affect the ph. is there something that i should be doing with this product?

perhaps i did clean too much. i was not aware of the old tank syndrome.

i thought about this last night and i am wondering if the temperature change may have caused undue stress, coupled with everything else. i did go out and buy a larger heater when i got the flourite. the one that i had was not large enough and was on constantly. now my temperature is at 82.

i know the kit is working because i had higher levels in a new tank that i am cycling. i have mollies in there right now.




i was reading more about this temperature thing last night. now i'm concerned about the fluctuation. i bought a bigger heater, but i'm going to check this out further. however, i read that tetras do fine with discus. i read that they require lower temperatures. is this a problem? i read different opinions on this.

i've uploaded pics of my tank.

thank, joanne

[1077]

I have a half dozen neon tetras with four discus at 82 to 84 degrees but I would think cardinal tetras would be more comfortable at higher temps. I just can't find healthy cardinals in my area. I am not a fan of large water changes. I prefer small frequent water changes as opposed to large ones as it is less stressful to the fish. at least that is what works for me. I usually change 25 percent once or twice a week and have had no issues. I try to make the new water close to same temp as tank that new water is going into. I have one 400 watt theo heater placed in the center of the tank and along the bottom (horizontally) and thus far it has done well to keep the heat uniform throughout the tank. When I clean the tank I don't do everything all at once.One week I may clean the filters by swishing them around in old aquarium water and then stick em back in. The next week I would vaccum one half the gravel during water change .The next week i vaccum the other half and wipe down the glass. It is just my opinion but i believe it to be less stressful on the fish this way and there is little chance of me destroying too much bacteria(the good kind) If I had a bare bottom tank and was attempting to breed the fish perhaps I would do differently but the way I am doing it seems to work for me.:)

[miasria]

here are my picture uploads

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=37871&d=1222788713

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=37875&d=1222788883