It is True - Pepper and Dark Background case study

[chemjab]

I was looking through my old pics to find an example for Al's new "defect"
project, when I found these before pics of my PBs.
I have 2 cases documented of PB pepper increasing against the dark background\substrait.
I will be experimenting to see if the pepper effect can be reversed.
The first shot is of a Red PB @ 2weeks with a black background
and river rock bottom.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/chemjab/Pepper/2008JanDiscus020a.jpg

This second shot is the same fish 10 months later with a black background and black substrate.
You can clearly see the increase in pepper. :alien:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/chemjab/Pepper/ex1-10monthslater_002a.jpg

The plan is to redo the set-up with a light background and substrate. Then record how long it takes for the pepper to fade, or if it will fade.

I will add a second example of a Blue PB soon. (I couldn't wait to share this)

[jpjagged]

i think you may have too many variables... such as water quality, food, temp, etc for this to be legit?

[chemjab]

i think you may have too many variables... such as water quality, food, temp, etc for this to be legit?

I believe it will be "legit". The water quality, food and temp all held fairly constant. My guys have 45-50% water change daily at a rate of 3 gallon per hour. The temp is constant with in 2 degrees. The proof will be in the pudding, so to say. When and if the pepper fades.

[chemjab]

OK this is the second example, a Blue PB.
He/she was bought at the same time as the Red PB in example one.
They were about 3" now he is ~5.5 to 6" and quite beautiful. :D
Although, I think he will look even better if the pepper fades.


You see very little pepper to begin with a black background and river rock bottom.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/chemjab/Pepper/bluePB01-22-08-032a.jpg

Now ten months later with black background and substrate - very peppered.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/chemjab/Pepper/bluePB10monthslater_026a.jpg

[Graham]

What are the water quality numbers...pH, GH , KH, TDS........I think that these can have every bit as much affect as background colour.

[chemjab]

What are the water quality numbers...pH, GH , KH, TDS........I think that these can have every bit as much affect as background colour.


Hi Graham,

Here are the #s, this is pretty typical reading.
PH 7.5 (lot of peat in the sump) (8.5 in tap)
GH 120-180 (somewhere in between)
KH 240
NO2- 0
NO3- 5
TDS 440

It would be interesting if it were the water. Let me know what you think. It would take two different long term experiments to see if it is the water or the BG color.


James

[Graham]

I'll lay odds that the GH and KH being high, has as much, if not more to do with the massive peppering as the background colouring. Let alone it has to be there genetically to start with.

If I were to put a kohaku/red and white koi, in that water it would end up with shimmis...koi peppering:(

G

[chemjab]

I have been thinking of adding an RO unit to my fill. I havn't done it yet, because I heard a lot of talk about raising them in your water if you don't plan to spawn them. The cobalts, wild brown and snake skins don't seem to mind the water or the BG color, but obviously the PBs are bothered about something.

I am on a well and use the water after the softener at a constant drip into my sump for daily water changes.

I hadn't heard that higher GH and KH can cause PB peppering.
You think my guys will be happier if I split the supply to 1/2 RO and 1/2 tap?

My RO drinking water comes out at ~35 ppm TDS.

Thanks of your advice,
James

[Peachtree Discus]

I'll lay odds that the GH and KH being high, has as much, if not more to do with the massive peppering as the background colouring. Let alone it has to be there genetically to start with.

i understand your points. ...but with all things being the same over a long period of time (same fish/genetics and same water conditions)...if the only think that is changed is the background, wouldn't this be a valid test?

if he did the same test in much softer waters...but those conditions remained the same and the only thing that was changed was the background...would that be a fair test as well to validate the current test results?

[Moon]

I have been thinking of adding an RO unit to my fill. I havn't done it yet, because I heard a lot of talk about raising them in your water if you don't plan to spawn them. The cobalts, wild brown and snake skins don't seem to mind the water or the BG color, but obviously the PBs are bothered about something.

I am on a well and use the water after the softener at a constant drip into my sump for daily water changes.

I hadn't heard that higher GH and KH can cause PB peppering.
You think my guys will be happier if I split the supply to 1/2 RO and 1/2 tap?

My RO drinking water comes out at ~35 ppm TDS.

Thanks of your advice,
James

My well water is similar to your's and I also have an in line domestic water softner. All of my discus are grown out in this water. Tanks are all bb with no paint or background. So the background is relatively light. None of my PB are showing ant kind of peppering.

[Dave27]

If dark BG was the cause, wouldn't lights off at night do the same thing but to a greater extent than a BG color?

[Harriett]

Certainly many of us have had the same experience with PBs. Put them in a dark background tank and they get schmutzy. Give them a light background and the color looks much better. In response to the question about peppering effects from turning off the lights, here is my guess: the reason discus pepper in a dark backgroud tank is because they are hard wired to blend in with the environment to appear less visible to potential predators. By the same process, when the tank has a light background, they blend better if they don't pepper up. I know that my discus sleep when the lights go off and, if sleeping, they are not stressing over safety and not working on blending in.Zzzzzzzzzzzz.
Harriett

[FLGirl1977]

Did you just acquire fish example no 1 when you started the study?? Even with the peppering its markings are different. I ask if you just received the fish only because the only solution that I can come up with was that it was hormoned and had (a) more vibrant markings and (b) towards the bottom fins in the second picture the pattern is different.

Also, your water is REALLY hard for discus. Sure they will survive.... but that doesn't mean that they will be happy. I would be investing in an RO unit and bring your GH down to 30-50....

Thanks for the research, it's very interesting and I would be interested in seeing if a lighter background would lessen the peppering. :)

[doc3toes]

i think you should change only one variable ie background colour. the second you go changing water parameters this study loses any value. if the GH is making your fish pepper, then change in background will have no effect, if water is kept constant. thank you for trying science. the hobby needs more scientific study, even though you are going to get negative comments saying that you couldn't possibly keeep your water parmeters constant and feeding etc. until someone comes up with a better scientific model i think you should stick with the plan.
Perhaps instead of negative comments, (and no, i am not suggesting that anyone has been negative, just recent experience) all of the members here could suggest their ideas on constructing a scientific model with as few and properly controlled variables as possible. My suggestion would be ....use the same fish, same water, same food, and only change the colour of the background. ie bare bottom with black paper then white paper. photos under the same light, same time of day and feeding etc.
I really hope something constuctive can come out of this. maybe we can have multiple members do the same experiment and post their findings. my mind is open. share what you find out.

[Autumn Wind]

I really hope something constuctive can come out of this. maybe we can have multiple members do the same experiment and post their findings. my mind is open. share what you find out.

I'm actually in the perfect position to join in this experiment. I have 7 discus all purchased from the same source at the same time, except for my LSS and Albino the rest are PB based. (can Blue Diamonds pepper?) Anyways when purchased in May they all were between 2 1/2" and 3 1/2" and all perfectly clean. They were all placed in a BB tank with no background. By July I noticed light pepper on one and then in Aug noticed it on two fish. In Oct I moved them to a planted tank w/dark substrate and background and now one fish is SEVERLY peppered, and the other is much worse. The other 2 PB have remained near perfecly clean. As luck would have it the two peppered fish have paired up so I have desided to move them to a seperate tank to reduce crowding. The new tank just finished cycling and has silica sand and a light blue almost white background. I have photo's showing the entire progression. My water param are near identical in all my tanks since I just add strainght from the tap.
Sorry I didn't mean to be so long winded but if there is any interest in running consecutive expirements I'd like to partisipate.
Thanks, vanessa

[YSS]

Anyone has any update?

[chemjab]

Wow, Sorry no update yet. I had some busy and stressful times at work and home. Most have settled down now. That being said, the substrate change was put on long time hold. I do have the system maintainance setup pretty sweet. It's on a semi-automatic water change. The pepper actually looks pretty good on the Marlboro Red, but I am still not a fan of it on the Pigeons. Maybe I can change it out this summer. :)

[seanyuki]

A lighter background would do....pigeon base discus nooo dark backgrounds...I still have a few SPC. in a light color background.
just my 2 cents.

SPC in a light background.

http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/aiseanyuki_2009/th_2009_04020081.jpg (http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/aiseanyuki_2009/2009_04020081.jpg) http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/aiseanyuki_2009/th_2009_04020079.jpg (http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/aiseanyuki_2009/2009_04020079.jpg) http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/aiseanyuki_2009/th_2009_04020080.jpg (http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu111/aiseanyuki_2009/2009_04020080.jpg)


Cheers
Francis:)

[chemjab]

Well I read through this tread again and several of you made some interesting comments that has got me interested in completing this experiment again.

There were several comments about how hard my water is and that this could be the cause. Taking this into consideration there were two distinct ways to investigate this.
1: continue with the original plan and change out the substate (planted tank) and scrape the paint off and replace with a lighter color. Option 1 is a lot of work.
2: install an RO unit and reduce the GH, KH and pH of the water.

Following the path of least resistance I opted for #2. Back around Christmas time I bought a RO unit, booster pump, shut off valve, aging barrel, house hold sump pump, heater, tubing and various fittings to make this work.

I drilled a drain hole in the side of the discus sump tank just above the return pump level so not to drain the sump dry. I installed standard nylon tubing with a shut off down to the basement and into the drainage system for the house which will be pumped onto my grass by the sump. Next I connected the RO unit after the whole house UV filter to the aging barrel. This was done by drilling a hole near the top of a 40 gal rubbermaid trash can (on wheels) and installing the auto shut off valve that works like a toilet float. Placed a heater in the barrel and set it to 80F. To get the water from the basement to the sump on the first floor I put a new house hold sump pump in the barrel and ran standard nylon tubbing up through the lid of the discus sump tank. To power the pump in the aging barrel I installed a new outlet that is controlled by a switch in the stand that houses the discus tank.

Now all I have to do for a water change is open the valve to drain. Close the valve and flip the switch to refill. Very important, have to remember to flip the switch off.:D

The water in the tank prior to the Ro unit
PH 7.5 (lot of peat in the sump) (8.5 in tap)
GH 120-180 (somewhere in between)
KH 240
NO2- 0
NO3- 5
TDS 440

The water in the aging barrel
80F
GH slighly more than 0
KH slighly more than 0
pH 6 to 6.5
NO2 0
NO3 0

The water in the tank using the new RO unit.
86F
GH 45
KH 20 to 30
pH ~7
NO2 0
NO3 20 to 25

After using this system a little more than 5 months there doesn't seem to be any reduction in the peppering on the fish. I will post some pictures for compariison soon.

Next step will be to follow through with option #1. I hope to get this accomplished this summer.

[Eddie]

Option #1 will do it for sure. ;)

Eddie

[Bizzaro]

Will the peppering be in the kids if they breed?

[Eddie]

Will the peppering be in the kids if they breed?

Well you have a pigeon blood, thats what pigeons do. LOL Some are cleaner than others and their environment/mood impacts the peppering. So the answer is yes, the babies will have the ability to pepper.

Eddie

[discusjoe27]

what is this pepper effect I got it on one of my yellow discus, does that mean the fish is sick,or what does it mean. is there a way to get rid of it? none of my other fish have, just my yellow one that is 4-5 inches long. once I get the camera back I will post a photo.

[seanyuki]

need to know more about your yellow discus.....pigeon base or golden base?


Cheers
Francis:)

[chemjab]

Did you just acquire fish example no 1 when you started the study?? Even with the peppering its markings are different. I ask if you just received the fish only because the only solution that I can come up with was that it was hormoned and had (a) more vibrant markings and (b) towards the bottom fins in the second picture the pattern is different.

Also, your water is REALLY hard for discus. Sure they will survive.... but that doesn't mean that they will be happy. I would be investing in an RO unit and bring your GH down to 30-50....

Thanks for the research, it's very interesting and I would be interested in seeing if a lighter background would lessen the peppering. :)


Hi FLGirl1977,
Your right on both counts. I had just picked that first guy up from that fish place ( supposed to be reputable). I did notice that his markings faded quite a bit when the pepper started comming in. I wasn't sure why the markings looked different. He is also kinda runty, one of the medium sized guys yet he is oldest resident. I hope he wasn't hormoned.
I guess all I can be concerned with now are the water parameters and the background color.:)

[discusjoe27]

need to know more about your yellow discus.....pigeon base or golden base?


Cheers
Francis:)

I think it's a golden base, it's all yellow with blue top and bottom fins. 4.0-4.5 inches long.
also GH, how do you bring it down?

[chemjab]

A lighter background would do....pigeon base discus nooo dark backgrounds...I still have a few SPC. in a light color background.
just my 2 cents.

SPC in a light background.

Cheers
Francis:)

Francis
Very nice looking discus. I am convenced at this point, that improving the water conditions alone will not work and that if anything has a chance of working it will be the lighter BG color. Too bad this study won't tell us if the hard water and light BG combined will allow the peppering to fade. But we can see from MOON's post that the harder water with high TDS combined with light BG did not cause peppering in his case.

My well water is similar to your's and I also have an in line domestic water softner. All of my discus are grown out in this water. Tanks are all bb with no paint or background. So the background is relatively light. None of my PB are showing ant kind of peppering.

[chemjab]

OK finally some updated pics. This first one shows the dark water, brown from the peat moss in the sump.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/chemjab/Discus%20Black%20BG/2009May9discusblackbackground052.jpg


The Red Pigeon from the first picture. He is now my longest lived resident. ~2 years living with this black BG and substrate. It has been 5+ months with the softer RO water. He/she has gotten darker.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/chemjab/Discus%20Black%20BG/2009May9discusblackbackgroundredpig.jpg

Unfortunately I lost the Blue Pigeon from the original post. A sad day for us here.:(

This next one is a Marlboro Red who has been living here ~12 months. The peppering is far less extensive.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/chemjab/Discus%20Black%20BG/2009May9discusblackbackgroundMarlbo.jpg

Finally my Silver Pigeon I think ~7 months. I will have to do some searching to figure out how long I've had him. Maybe Al can help jar my memory as he was there when I bought him from Discus Hans??

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/chemjab/Discus%20Black%20BG/2009May9discusblackbackgroundsilver.jpg

All these dark pictures make me anxious to "lighten things up". I really want to proceed with option #1 now.

I think the pepper on the Marlboro Red looks cool, but I don't like the effect on the pigeons. It covers their beautiful colors and patterns. We'll see what happens when the BG changes.

James

[chemjab]

OK I couldn't wait until summer. I just got 150 lbs of white pool filter sand and washed it. Now I am going to pick up some new paint. Looks like it will be a long night for me.

[discusluvr818]

OK I couldn't wait until summer. I just got 150 lbs of white pool filter sand and washed it. Now I am going to pick up some new paint. Looks like it will be a long night for me.

Hahahahahaha.....sounds like me a Friday and Saturday. I was on a mission. I only bought 50 lbs and I know that isn't enough. My tank is 100 gallons and I need 5o more lbs. I was supposed to get it today, mothers day, couldn't dare.

Good luck and I can't wait to see the pics. I can honestly say that my Red Pandas from Watley (I got most all my discus from Watley's, or Gab to be exact) have moderately reduced in peppering within just a couple days. I am confident also that the substrate and bg make a huge difference. Have fun!!!!

[chemjab]

Hahahahahaha.....sounds like me a Friday and Saturday. I was on a mission. I only bought 50 lbs and I know that isn't enough. My tank is 100 gallons and I need 5o more lbs. I was supposed to get it today, mothers day, couldn't dare.

Good luck and I can't wait to see the pics. I can honestly say that my Red Pandas from Watley (I got most all my discus from Watley's, or Gab to be exact) have moderately reduced in peppering within just a couple days. I am confident also that the substrate and bg make a huge difference. Have fun!!!!

Ha Ha Ha:) Yeah I know sometimes you just can't fight the urge. We celebrated Mother's Day on Sat, so no problem for me.

I got all the black sand out and in a pile outside (so the dog can run through it :) ) The black paint off and the first coat of light bluebird paint on. I have to use a brush because this is an old school all glass 120 gal and it is way to heavy for me to move outside by myself. Should be able to finish tonight after work.

I am encouraged by hearing your results with the Red Pandas.

Do you think 100 lbs is going to be enough? I was unsure of how much to buy, I think I had 150lbs of black sand.?.?.? The pool store said they have plenty if I need more.

James

James

[discusluvr818]

Ha Ha Ha:) Yeah I know sometimes you just can't fight the urge. We celebrated Mother's Day on Sat, so no problem for me.

I got all the black sand out and in a pile outside (so the dog can run through it :) ) The black paint off and the first coat of light bluebird paint on. I have to use a brush because this is an old school all glass 120 gal and it is way to heavy for me to move outside by myself. Should be able to finish tonight after work.

I am encouraged by hearing your results with the Red Pandas.

Do you think 100 lbs is going to be enough? I was unsure of how much to buy, I think I had 150lbs of black sand.?.?.? The pool store said they have plenty if I need more.

James

James


I think 100-150 should do it depending on how deep of a sandbed you want. My tank is only 100 gallons so with 50 lbs, I have a solid 1.5" cover from end to end. Honestly, I don't want it to get that deep. I just want the light color.

With my old substrate I had 100+ lbs but I had a 3.5 inch base end to end. Now my plants are plastic hahaha...no need for root space :D I am going to add 30 or so more lbs just to appease the wife. She says it is too flat. Good luck. I can't wat to see the before and after. BTW, I still haven't decided on a bg. I would have to paint mine with a brush also, so for now it is uncovered. I got lazy.

[chemjab]

Finally it's complete. Now only time will tell. I am pretty happy with the new set up. Good thing because it took 3 days to do. Maybe my plants will grow better now that the light isn't being sucked up by the black BG. I will have more to say later, but for now here are a few before and after shots.

Whole tank Before with flash (had to use flash with dark BG)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/chemjab/Discus%20New%20set%20up/2009May12Beforeteardown005.jpg

Whole tank After no flash

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/chemjab/Discus%20New%20set%20up/2009May13Fulllightsnoflash001.jpg

Closer still no flash, something that was impossible with the black BG.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/chemjab/Discus%20New%20set%20up/2009May13Fulllightsnoflash024.jpg

:D:D:D

[discusluvr818]

Finally it's complete. Now only time will tell. I am pretty happy with the new set up. Good thing because it took 3 days to do. Maybe my plants will grow better now that the light isn't being sucked up by the black BG. I will have more to say later, but for now here are a few before and after shots.

Whole tank Before with flash (had to use flash with dark BG)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/chemjab/Discus%20New%20set%20up/2009May12Beforeteardown005.jpg

Whole tank After no flash

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/chemjab/Discus%20New%20set%20up/2009May13Fulllightsnoflash001.jpg

Closer still no flash, something that was impossible with the black BG.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/chemjab/Discus%20New%20set%20up/2009May13Fulllightsnoflash024.jpg

:D:D:D


That looks so awesome man. I am very impressed. Is it pool filter sand only? Are those real plants? I just put plastic plants because I wasn't sure if real plants would survive without good soil/substrate.

Anyhow, you did a heck of a job. I really like the after. Before it was waaaaaaayyyyyyy too dark for my taste. Amazing how much light is absorbed with dark substrate. My tank looks twice as bright, like I bought more lights.

I think you will notice a decrease in peppering also. My Red Panda's are clearing up nicely. Thanks for sharing!!

[chemjab]

That looks so awesome man. I am very impressed. Is it pool filter sand only? Are those real plants? I just put plastic plants because I wasn't sure if real plants would survive without good soil/substrate.

Anyhow, you did a heck of a job. I really like the after. Before it was waaaaaaayyyyyyy too dark for my taste. Amazing how much light is absorbed with dark substrate. My tank looks twice as bright, like I bought more lights.

I think you will notice a decrease in peppering also. My Red Panda's are clearing up nicely. Thanks for sharing!!

Thanks!:D

Yes it is pool filter sand 3 bags at $8/50lbs. Your right the difference is amazing I actually removed a light = 80 watts from the tank and it still looks brighter. Those are real plants, a couple are new but most were in the old tank. They were surviving, but not thriving. I don't think they were getting enough light. Hopefully they will grow better now. I really want one of those "beautiful show tanks". The plants really are an awesome bio-filter.

Would like to see pics of yours if you can.
James

[Lampy]

James,

The tank looks totally awesome now!

And you are right... a wild pair of browns would be just the thing to add to the tank!! :D

[bluwaters]

What an interesting thread!
I am just getting ready to set up a new tank for my Red Scribbleds from Discus Hans.
Your photos are amazing and I really like seeing the difference between the dark and light BG.
I love the new, blue BG color that you used.
Would you mind sharing the brand name, color, and type of paint that you used?
I have never painted a tank before, but your photos have made me a believer!
TIA! :wave:
Anna

[Eddie]

The tank looks alot better and the colors of the fish can be seen alot beter.

Take care,

Eddie

[discusluvr818]

Thanks!:D

Would like to see pics of yours if you can.
James


http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=71043


Here you go my friend. I just uploaded some more pics right now. It has befores near the top and some more after's also. I think the bluish tint might be because no background?? I don't know. Water chemistry is registering fine :)


I hope you like it!!

[chemjab]

What an interesting thread!
I am just getting ready to set up a new tank for my Red Scribbleds from Discus Hans.
Your photos are amazing and I really like seeing the difference between the dark and light BG.
I love the new, blue BG color that you used.
Would you mind sharing the brand name, color, and type of paint that you used?
I have never painted a tank before, but your photos have made me a believer!
TIA! :wave:
Anna

Hi Anna, Thanks. :D
I used a quart of walmarts brand "color bright" tinted to match Dutch Boy's "little blue bird". They had to use the compurter to match the sample. My water is brown from the peak moss which gave the paint a more greenish tint.
James

[chemjab]

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=71043


Here you go my friend. I just uploaded some more pics right now. It has befores near the top and some more after's also. I think the bluish tint might be because no background?? I don't know. Water chemistry is registering fine :)


I hope you like it!!


Nice Work :bandana: I like the look.

LOL I remember now. Your thread was one that inspired me to get started on this project again. Read so many threads recently, sometimes it's hard to keep them straight. :laugh::fried:

[chemjab]

Wow look how bright the moon lights are with the new BG! With the old setup you could bearly tell they were on.
:bounce:

Before the new plants. One brave soul is swimming after being in the new tank for about 1 hour.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/chemjab/Discus%20New%20set%20up/2009May12Moonlightsnoflash004.jpg


Shot with the new plants in.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/chemjab/Discus%20New%20set%20up/2009May12Moonlightsnoflash006.jpg

James

[Lampy]

Oooohhhhh pretty!!

[bluwaters]

Thanks for the paint info.
I like peat in my water as well.
Your tank is simply beautiful, day and night.
I feel a busy weekend coming on!

[discusluvr818]

Wow look how bright the moon lights are with the new BG! With the old setup you could bearly tell they were on.
:bounce:

Before the new plants. One brave soul is swimming after being in the new tank for about 1 hour.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/chemjab/Discus%20New%20set%20up/2009May12Moonlightsnoflash004.jpg


Shot with the new plants in.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/chemjab/Discus%20New%20set%20up/2009May12Moonlightsnoflash006.jpg

James

Man that looks cool with the moon lights...

[chemjab]

Thanks everyone. I think it looks great too. Hope the swimmers do. I guess the next pics I post here will be to document when the peppering fades. :D

[pam916]

Very interesting thread, I can't wait to see the results. I also have some PB like yours, I bought 4 and as luck would have it the one with the most peppering was one of the two that paired up, they are practicing parenthood as we speak, they are on their third set of eggs they have laid in the last couple of weeks I was wondering if they didn't acquire more peppering as they aged.

[chemjab]

Very interesting thread, I can't wait to see the results. I also have some PB like yours, I bought 4 and as luck would have it the one with the most peppering was one of the two that paired up, they are practicing parenthood as we speak, they are on their third set of eggs they have laid in the last couple of weeks I was wondering if they didn't acquire more peppering as they aged.

Wow lucky you:D
Wish I had a pair. Is the second a male for sure? I mean have you seen him fertalize the eggs? I have read/heard that some times two femaile will go through the motions. I only ask because you mentioned it's the 3rd clutch.

Good Luck and hope you get lots of little wigglers.

PS oh yah, Do you have a dark BG or substrate?

James

[chemjab]

OK so one week has gone by and I think you will have to agree the pepper has definitly faded with the light BG.

First is a reminder of what the Red PB looked like the day before the tear down.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/chemjab/Discus%20Black%20BG/2009May9discusblackbackgroundredpig.jpg


Second shot is one week later with the new BG colors.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/chemjab/Pepper/2009May19fadingpepper013.jpg

Next I will post a before and after of my Silver PB.

[chemjab]

the before and after of the Siver PB are not as dramatic as the Red, but you can see a difference.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/chemjab/Discus%20Black%20BG/2009May9discusblackbackgroundsilver.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/chemjab/Pepper/2009May19fadingpepper047.jpg


I will post another updated picture in 7 more days.

[chemjab]

Had to post one more to break 100 posts. LOL :D
Also I wanted to share these two other tank mates.

Frog Pleco 1 of 2 (from Frybabies)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/chemjab/Pepper/2009May19fadingpepper025.jpg

Green SS, a little stunted but still very cute. I know what to do next time to grow them out fat. :D His tummy is all buldging out stuffed full of brine shrimp. Today was special.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/chemjab/Pepper/2009May19fadingpepper008.jpg

James

[discusluvr818]

Wow that is a huge change on the Red PB. I can't believe it was so fast and so quick!! I am wondering if the fish feel more comfortable with the light BG, hence the peppering fading? I don't kn ow but great job man. Can't wait to see more pics next week.

[poconoboss]

Holy crap! I can't believe the difference in that first fish.

I had a Pearl Pigeon develop peppering, my substrate is not that dark, it's beige/tan gravel but my 3D background is kind of dark (it replicates wood and rocks), I wonder if that is the cause as well?

Interesting.