When should I put hard water in tank???

[Santa]

Hi people,
I like this forum very much! Anyway, I have one question, the answer I could not find still. If I breed discus in 0 hardness, when I should start putting harder water, after how many days, and when should I put them in new aquarium??? I know that for growing fry they need harder water
Thanks in advance

[brewmaster15]

Hi and Welcome to SimplyDiscus! Glad you like it here!:)

Theres alot of variation on this, but I personally start switching the fry into my tap water a day or two after they have attached to the parents... I just do it slowly over a few days with water changes...maybe 20% day... Works fine for me.

hth,
al

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

Once the eggs are fertilized they can be switched over to harder water. Soft water is necessary for permiability of the egg membrane by sperm. Once the sperm fertilizes the egg, the membrane becomes a "shell" and harden up. Normal metabolic exchnge rates will occur regardless if in soft water or hard water.

-Ryan

[ShinShin]

But then, all discus fry grow up in soft water in their natural habitat. Why screw with Mother Nature? Is faster growth the only benefit from this practice?

Mat

[Rod]

Good points Mat, i'll go even further and say is faster growth a reality with harder water.....?

I also use harder water for growouts, but for the stability of the water. If i had unlimited water available to me and could do continuous drip water changes i wouldn't even bother hardening it up at all.

Rod:)

[ShinShin]

Rod,

The water here used to be ~ 55 microsiemens and a pH of 6.5 to 6.6, depending on if it were the rainy or dry season. I never changed the water parameters for adults, fry, breeders, etc..Stress induced diseases were practically a nonfactor. Now, they added something to the water and the pH is 7.4 so I add muratic acid to it.

I have always felt that the way people today who either try to manipulate their discus into accepting less than ideal water parameters because that is what comes out of the tap, or manipulate "ideal" water to improve growth rate do so at an expense to the fish involved.. The disease section of the discus forums are filled with health problems, of which in my experience, are mostly stress induced ailments. We all have had imports that came in sick, but that's another issue. I maintain that a discus kept in soft, acidic water will always do better than if that same discus were kept in a moderately hard, alkaline enviroment, and that one doing okay in the latter, would do better if it were in the former, and that these conditions cause some degree, a little or a lot, of the stress over time. I am surprised to see how many people are shocked to learn that a discus can live up to 14-15 years in captivity when such a trhread is started about age. Most thought 3-4 years. Why?

Your thoughts?

Mat

[Rod]

Hi Mat,

Where i now live my water is hard and alkaline, conductivity around 400. I add acid as well to lower ph which works well for me, but breeding results are usually very poor in this water, many changes need to be made.
Before i was married i lived in an area with 6.5 and 100ms straight from the tap. Although i didn't keep discus in those days i bred many sth americans including uaru, angels and geo's. Extensive water changes to maintain the ph were the only maintence procedures and the fish thrived in it, bred well and grew to a decent size. Never can i remember deficiency diseases or problems related to very soft water.
I think a lot of the problems people are having with the discus is stress related as you say, and incorrect water can be a contributor to the problem. But also the health and quality of the discus people are receiving from importers and breeders. It is important to get a good fish to start with. Many beginners cannot recognize problems early enough, or misdiagnose a problem. This is quite natural, like anything there is a learning curve and it will take some experience to recognize the problems before they become a serious situation. But i think if the discus are in prime condition when they are received, then they have a much better overall chance of success. Even if the water is slightly alkaline, a discus without the burden of parasites or other problems will still do well. Will they do better and look better if the water is slightly acid and soft? I say yes.

Rod :)

[Santa]

Hi again,
So you actually think that if I have 200l aquarium, and grow let's say 10 discus BB, I need at least 60l of RO water daily just for WC, and my RO is 100l per day, which meens that I need to have it on all day every day? So I cannot be out a single day working on my actuall job:mad: It is a lot of time consuming. For me is much easier to do with tap water which is around 6ph, dh 18. What do you think about these conditions? I have 5 more aq 300l, with Malawi, Tangaljika, CentalAmericans, and Southamerikans, where I do like 50% weekly changes...

[ShinShin]

Santa,

Your pH is great at 6.0. I don't do the GH/KH measurements so I cannot equate them to anything. I measure conductivity.

Mat

[ShinShin]

Rod,

Yes, I agree that there are many factors involved relating to stress induced disease. I think that conditions suited for discus need to be created if one wants to keep discus of which proper water and diet are the 2 most important. We'll just assume good stock has been purchased.

Proper water parameters, not just "consistant" water parameters is more important than some of the thinking and advice giving I see alot of for healthy discus.

I don't want to hijack Santa's thread here, so thanks for your input.

Mat

[mcsinny99]

Right away, life's too short....

:mickey::whip:Don't like disney...

[elninho]

Santa,

Are you still keeping Discus? Because If you do, we are in the same city and I would like to know where do you live in Belgrade and have 6.0 PH ? I have like 8.5 in Zemun.

This was an ancient post but I hope you are still visiting the forum.

[Eddie]

Santa,

Are you still keeping Discus? Because If you do, we are in the same city and I would like to know where do you live in Belgrade and have 6.0 PH ? I have like 8.5 in Zemun.

This was an ancient post but I hope you are still visiting the forum.

If you view someones profile, it will tell you their last activity on the forum. Santa's last activity was in 2009.

[elninho]

I know that I was just hoping that he was maybe subscribed to this thread and that I would wake him up this way.