Discus with Skin peeling off side??

[stallion150]

Hi all,

I have three discus in my 55 gallon planted tank. After a water change three days ago, I noticed one discus was behaving weird--like swimming near the top of the tank and hanging in the upper corner.

When I look at it: its a red discus, but its sides look like they are peeling. Like white, flaky dead skin on the sides. Any idea what that is??

The other two fish are fine. All three fish are eating great.

[Graham]

Hi, That's probably excess mucus being sloughed off...the reason hard to say.... It could be bacterial or a parasite...have you got access to microscope?

G

[DiscusKeeper403]

Could be the start of Discus Plague too (god forbid.) How is his color?

[stallion150]

Hi, thanks guys. I don't have access to a microscope.

His color is still bright red, though maybe a little darker than before. He's still eating like a pig, so thats what confuses me. He doesn't stay in that spot exclusively, but I did notice he is breathing harder than the other fish.

[DiscusKeeper403]

I would start with quarantining the fish if possible. It is odd that he still has a healthy appetite.

[stallion150]

This morning more skin seems to be peeling off....almost like he's shedding a glove. its really strange. no other fish is affected.

[Graham]

Something is irritating him to produce more mucus/cuticle.

At this point then I'd be looking at shotgunning a med into the tank or at him in a QT. I'd start with something like QuickCure, following dosing instructions on the bottle, with water changes between repeats.

G

[stallion150]

I've had pH problems in the past....for whatever reason it seems to be recurring again...all the fish now seem to have that irritated skin/mucous sloughing. I just added some crushed coral after a massive water change, the fish seem to be doing better.....thats what helped last time.

Thanks for all the help!

[Graham]

Just how low was/is the pH? It needs to be a long way down to bother discus

G

[stallion150]

When I was having pH problems about 2 months ago, the pH would read below 5 routinely. I would do big water changes, after which the pH would rise to 7, but it would always crash back down overnight.

I've had everything tested--including the city's water, which is neutral pH but very soft (low mineral content).

Any idea as to why the pH would crash constantly? Now that the crushed coral is in, the fish are doing much better....but wonder why the pH would not be stable.

[Graham]

Obivously they didn't test everything..... pH needs KH/Carbonate Hardness to buffer it, without it the pH will crash or go very acidic.

pH is a measurement of hydrogen ions, the more H ions the more acidic the pH. The hydroxide ions, formed in the presence of carbonate (in high pH, above 8.0) or bicarbonates (in lower pH below 8.0) buffer against all those H ions. So no carbonates or bicarbonates then the hydrogen takes over

Crushed coral is calcium carbonate and the carbonate will buffer the pH, Oyster shell or even baking soda (sodium bicarbonate0 can be used.

G

[CARY_GLdiscus]

Could be the start of Discus Plague too (god forbid.) How is his color?

Discus Plague AKA unKnown Bacteria and or parasitic infection/infestation


hth
Cary Gld!

[Graham]

Not many bacterial or parasitic infections that can't be cured using the right antibiotic or chem...viral that's another story.

[MostlyDiscus]

Stallion150,

Sounds like your problem started after a WC. Do you treat your water before you refill your tank? It sounds like your city water is fine at 7 but have you checked to see how soft your water is from the city? Have you been using any medications? Do you use RO water? Red discus if from the PB line dont always darken when sick or stressed. I would highly reccomend Grahams advice though and hit with QC. Be carefull of the dose at it contain formalin. The "peeling skin" sounds like some kind of external pressure. Ed

[CARY_GLdiscus]

I would not use any type of oxadizer fearing it would burn into the epidermis of the fish being that the slime coat is falling off.

Antibiotic's would be my choice!

hth
Cary Gld!

[Graham]

Cary, If the mucus layer has been stripped away then the fish would have a rough, dry, sandpaper feel to it....this is easy enough to check. Bacterial problems usually have other symptoms showing up also

In that case antibiotics would probably be the right way to go.

If though, it's just excess mucus being produced and continually being sloughed off due to parasites irritation then the QC or another shotgun chem would be the way to go.

[CARY_GLdiscus]

Graham,

I hear you and you are right! I would only be concerned of others knowning the diffrence!
You and Me Yes but others dealing with this for the first time I'am not so sure.

But on a second note I like to use 37% and the dose in Qc is very mild.

Hth
Cary Gld!

[April]

is your filter full of munge? or not keeping up? best if you can have two sponge filters going and alternate rinsing of them . if your waters soft and no hardness..and it doesnt keep up it will start sliding fast and furious and keep crashing. each time you add new water you are changing it alot of ph rise hence mucous coat falling off. your stored water if y ou can..should be close in match to your tank water. i use aragonite which works very well. more frequent wcs also keeps your ph from sliding.
but.did you get all your discus at one time from the same source or did you go get a new discus? if so onne couldve been a carrier of a pathogen or disease.

[stallion150]

Does Anyone know why my pH would consistently crash low?

I had the water checked again this morning--nitrates and nitrite were zero, ammonia was slightly high, but pH was below 5 once again.

The crushed coral seems like a band-aid over the problem....It's not the city water as I've had a tank for years on this water without a problem.

This pH business started when I switched over from a gravel to sand substrate--I thought the tank went through a mini-cycle, but that was back in August so it should be resolved by now right?

Thanks a lot for the help....this pH problem is confounding me and every LFS i've spoken with.

[stallion150]

I've had the discus for a while now....so I don't think its a pathogen. the water parameters are off. I have an Eheim 2026 pro II filter thats well maintained..I'm pretty good about keeping the various pads changed at the proper intervals.

[Don Trinko]

If your KH is low (less than 4 or 3?) Your ph can crash. My KH of tap water is in the 20's so I do not have that problem. I would thing there are addatives to raise the KH. Don T.

[stallion150]

Hi Don, I've not had the kH tested...The city water is really soft, neutral pH. I'm pretty ignorant about the kH.

[brewmaster15]

Hi,
If you want to get a handle on the pH dropping, you need to test for KH.... If the KH is too low...the pH will drop just from the biological processes in your tank...

Crushed coral isn't really a bandaid...Its a way to buffer your pH so it doesn't drop..it does this by increasing your KH...

I use Crush coral in all my grow out tanks here as my KH is very low...

Its really important that you understand the role of KH in your pH.

Hth,
al

[brewmaster15]

additionally,

This pH business started when I switched over from a gravel to sand substrate--I thought the tank went through a mini-cycle, but that was back in August so it should be resolved by now right? some gravels can buffer the water by affecting the waters KH...sands like silica pool sand have no affect on KH.

back to the fish with the slime issues... its this slime peeling off a constant thing or after a water change?

-al

[stallion150]

Hi Al--thanks for the help.

you raise a really good point--This tank was stable for 3 years without any pH problems what so ever...but perhaps losing the buffering capacity of the gravel when I changed over to pool filter sand is what did it.

-The mucous sloughing off improves after a water change, but it returns in the AM when i'm guessing the pH dips again overnight. The water out of the faucet (I just called the city): is actually more basic than I thought its pH of 8-8.5.

I've now added some fresh crushed coral hopefully that will help bring the kH up. Since the water is very soft, i'm guessing the KH is pretty low too.

[Graham]

Hi Don, I've not had the kH tested...The city water is really soft, neutral pH. I'm pretty ignorant about the kH.


My previous post


Obivously they didn't test everything..... pH needs KH/Carbonate Hardness to buffer it, without it the pH will crash or go very acidic.

pH is a measurement of hydrogen ions, the more H ions the more acidic the pH. The hydroxide ions, formed in the presence of carbonate (in high pH, above 8.0) or bicarbonates (in lower pH below 8.0) buffer against all those H ions. So no carbonates or bicarbonates then the hydrogen takes over

Crushed coral is calcium carbonate and the carbonate will buffer the pH, Oyster shell or even baking soda (sodium bicarbonate0 can be used.

G

[stallion150]

Thanks everyone. the fish have perked up a lot since i've added the crush coral. I think i'll just make that a permanent addition to my canister filter and hopefully things should stay stable.