View Full Version : Almost dead fish HELP!
DiscusKeeper403
10-26-2008, 09:07 PM
Ok,
Why do my fish keep dying?! Every 4 or 5 months a Discus in my tank will die. I separated two fish because they weren't eating. Now one is on the bottom of the tank lying sideways. I have some gold water with clove I am going to stick him in and just put him to sleep :(
Why do they keep dying!? It was looking like on of my fish had Ich, that has gone away. One fish does have what looks like a white scale or a round white scrape on it's side, and another almost looked like it had velvet which has also now gone away. I had been treating the tank with Polyguard just to see if I could get the fish to start eating again, but it didn't work.
I have some Nox-Ich, do you think I should put it into the tank? It doesn't really look as if the one fish has Ich/Velvet anymore. I am almost ready to give up on my Discus, I have no clue why they keep getting sick, all my other fish are fine and always have been. I have never had this much trouble with any fish, and it seems to be only this tank as my other Discus in my other tank are fine.
I have the temp. at 28C but will boost it up to 30C tonight when I do my water change.
PLEASE HELP!
You should provide more information like how many fish, tank size, wc regime etc. Also did you test your water for ammonia and nitrites? If so what are the results?
At a temp of 28-30 your fish should not get ick. If there are patches on their sides it is some sort of parasite. Treat them with Formalin/Malachite Green medication like Quickcure.
DiscusKeeper403
10-26-2008, 11:19 PM
You should provide more information like how many fish, tank size, wc regime etc. Also did you test your water for ammonia and nitrites? If so what are the results?
At a temp of 28-30 your fish should not get ick. If there are patches on their sides it is some sort of parasite. Treat them with Formalin/Malachite Green medication like Quickcure.
Tank size: 50 gallons
Fish: 4 (was 5) Discus, 1 Honey Gourami, and 2 Ram
Tested my water stats about a week ago, don't think anything would have changed since then, both Ammonia, and Nitrites were at zero
W/C Regime: 30% every other day.
It really looked like Ich on the fish. Little white spots. It also sort of looked as if the other fish had velvet (small orange(ish) gold) dots on them. I can't see either of that now.
I just did a 50% w/c and added some Nox Ich (Malachite Green, Sodium Chloride.)
If I don't see results in a week I am taking my sick fish to the vet and seeing if they can take a blood sample to look at under a microscope.
what are nitrate readings? Nitrates should be kept as low as possible. Do you vaccum the bottom of the tank and if so how often? Some folks consider drawing of water from the top of the tank and replacing it as sufficent for water change but considering the amount of food that may be being offered vaccuming the bottom is mandatory .Perhaps you are already doing this at each water change? I am assuming(always a bad thing) you do or other tanks and fish could possibly be suffering. It could very well be some type of parasite. I have used Jungle Lab's Anti- parasite fish food with success maybe it can help you as well. Another thing to possibly consider is live foods. I would not offer live foods unless I was raising or cultivating it. Too much chance of parasites or bacterias being introduced. With the quality of fish foods today ,i can see no reason to take the chance from offering live food. Hope some of this helps.
DiscusKeeper403
10-27-2008, 03:37 PM
what are nitrate readings? Nitrates should be kept as low as possible. Do you vaccum the bottom of the tank and if so how often? Some folks consider drawing of water from the top of the tank and replacing it as sufficent for water change but considering the amount of food that may be being offered vaccuming the bottom is mandatory .Perhaps you are already doing this at each water change? I am assuming(always a bad thing) you do or other tanks and fish could possibly be suffering. It could very well be some type of parasite. I have used Jungle Lab's Anti- parasite fish food with success maybe it can help you as well. Another thing to possibly consider is live foods. I would not offer live foods unless I was raising or cultivating it. Too much chance of parasites or bacterias being introduced. With the quality of fish foods today ,i can see no reason to take the chance from offering live food. Hope some of this helps.
Nitrate readings should be at zero, but I haven't checked them in a while. I vacuum the tank with every water change. Not sure what what you means by doing it or other tanks and fish could possibly be suffering?
Like I said, I think I will just take the fish to the vet in a a few days, it will be the easiest way of finding what is up.
Graham
10-27-2008, 04:16 PM
Nitrates/NO3 at 0.0ppm is almost impossible. You would have to be doing 100% water chnages everyday. And this would assume that the tap water doesn't have have any in it.
Nitrite/NO2 should be at 0.0ppm...
Before you go lugging your fish off to a Vet, better make sure he knows one end of a fish from the other. There are very few Vets out there that have any experience dealing in fish. As to taking a blood sample....that would be almost impossible on a small fish like a discus with thier body shape.
If they are fish experienced then they'll be able to do a scrape and scope and hopefully ID something for you.
DiscusKeeper403
10-27-2008, 11:03 PM
Nitrates/NO3 at 0.0ppm is almost impossible. You would have to be doing 100% water chnages everyday. And this would assume that the tap water doesn't have have any in it.
Nitrite/NO2 should be at 0.0ppm...
Before you go lugging your fish off to a Vet, better make sure he knows one end of a fish from the other. There are very few Vets out there that have any experience dealing in fish. As to taking a blood sample....that would be almost impossible on a small fish like a discus with thier body shape.
If they are fish experienced then they'll be able to do a scrape and scope and hopefully ID something for you.
They can do scraping on a live fish?
Last time I checked Nitrates were at 0. Haven't checked them in a while, but I assume they are low because of my frequent water change routine. There is no Nitrates in my tap.
I know my Aunt is a vet and she specializes in exotic fish. I also talked to a guy who took his big ID shark to the vet.
After one day of dosing Nox Ich and increasing the temp. the fish in question seems to have perked up a little. Seems more active. I forgot to take out the carbon in my filter though, so it could just be the temperature increase.
I would of course, call and find a vet that can deal with exotic tropical fish. I am only doing this as a last resort, because I can't for the heck of me, find out what the problem with this one fish is.
Graham
10-27-2008, 11:11 PM
The fish has to be alive to do a scrape and scope. Parasites bail out very quickly on a dead fish.
DiscusKeeper403
10-29-2008, 01:20 AM
The fish has to be alive to do a scrape and scope. Parasites bail out very quickly on a dead fish.
Okay good.
So I was kind of hoping for a sign of what was making my Discus was sick, and today when I went to feed my fish in that tank one of the Discus with a healthy appetite had a huge stringy white bowl movement hanging from him. Good sign it's an internal parasite. I was thinking I would start a course of Metro? Would you agree?
IMHO I would try and find some Medicated food rather than treat the water. I believe most would agree that eating the medication assuming they are still eating, is far more effective than treating the water. I have used Jungle Lab's anti- parasite and ant- bacteria medicated food with success. I had to order it online however as none of the places near me carried it. You can google info on the product.
DiscusKeeper403
10-29-2008, 06:25 PM
IMHO I would try and find some Medicated food rather than treat the water. I believe most would agree that eating the medication assuming they are still eating, is far more effective than treating the water. I have used Jungle Lab's anti- parasite and ant- bacteria medicated food with success. I had to order it online however as none of the places near me carried it. You can google info on the product.
Three fish are eating the other sick fish isn't. My fish don't eat pellets either, but what I can do is treat the water as well as soaking the food in medication.
My fish were not fond of pellets either so I mashed the pellets between two spoons and mixed with BH. Have also mixed the crushed medicated food with equal amount of crushed garlic. I do hope your fish improves.
DiscusKeeper403
11-01-2008, 04:15 PM
My fish were not fond of pellets either so I mashed the pellets between two spoons and mixed with BH. Have also mixed the crushed medicated food with equal amount of crushed garlic. I do hope your fish improves.
Thanks for the idea. I thought that maybe I have a parasite called Spiro, because I had been looking at some bowl movements and the closest match would be Spiro. I went and got some Metro. It was SeaChem and came in the tube. Well when I got it home there was barely any left, so I'll have to go replace it tomorrow.
I was going to clean my fish tank today, and I found ANOTHER FISH DEAD! No signs of disease, this time my female Blue Ram. I did a 70% w/c and tested my water stats. They are as followed:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: Between 0 and 5, closer to 5.
Hopefully I will heal the tank with the Metro.
DiscusKeeper403
11-05-2008, 10:51 PM
Three days into treatment and no sign of the fish getting better :(
purplehaze
11-06-2008, 01:01 PM
i noticed in one of your replys that you forgot to take out the carbon before medicating.
ive read in numerous places that carbon should NOT be in a discus set up as it can lead to health problems.maybe this is why your haveing so many problems.
DiscusKeeper403
11-08-2008, 06:26 AM
i noticed in one of your replys that you forgot to take out the carbon before medicating.
ive read in numerous places that carbon should NOT be in a discus set up as it can lead to health problems.maybe this is why your haveing so many problems.
Carbon is out. I don't normally use carbon in my Discus tank as I too believe that it may be linked to HITH. All I use is foam. Thanks for the reply anyways.
DL
DiscusKeeper403
11-10-2008, 05:07 PM
Alright well I did a 7 day course of my Metro with no prevail. I was talking to a guy at work yesterday who said if I wanted he could use a microscope at the University to see whats wrong with the fish. Would I be scraping a sample of slime coat or how do I do this? Also, he said he wouldn't be able to look at it until next Tuesday or Wednesday, I would give it to him next Sunday. How do I preserve it, in a vial of tank water?
Thanks for the help so far.
DL
Graham
11-10-2008, 05:24 PM
After several hours the slide/sample would be no good. Parasite are hard enough to see alive let alone dead and dried out.
Just dumped in water also would be no good.
The scrape would work but this time line won't
DiscusKeeper403
11-10-2008, 05:37 PM
Oh darn. Well I guess I'll just take it to the vet then.
Graham
11-10-2008, 05:51 PM
Make sure the Vet knows something about fish before you go
DiscusKeeper403
11-11-2008, 04:12 AM
Make sure the Vet knows something about fish before you go
Yep, for sure. Is there anything else you can recommend before I take them? Any other medication I could try? My guess is internal parasite, so maybe something with a huge kill spectrum might do the trick. Are there parasites that only effect one host at a time in the tank? Could it possibly be Capillaria, as I was thinking I have new Angels in another tank, been there for about 1.5 months. I use the same siphon on each tank though so maybe it could be spread that way?
I am no expert on fish diseases and other than the medicated food I mentioned in a previous post I am afraid I can't be of much help. There is something I would offer that you may wish to consider. Some of the species of Dwarf gouramis such as Colisa Ialia are subject or some might say prone to Iridoviruses that are untreatable and highly infectious to other fish. I seem to recall that you listed a gourami as tank inhabitant. I am sorry I cannot help for I know how stressful trying to save or help sick fish can be. I am offering the info on gouramis as something for you to perhaps google info on.:(
aquadiva
11-11-2008, 07:01 AM
I have heard that PraziPro may be of help when fish tend to die off one at a time for unknown reasons. Might be worth a try??
DiscusKeeper403
11-11-2008, 03:25 PM
I have heard that PraziPro may be of help when fish tend to die off one at a time for unknown reasons. Might be worth a try??
Well the problem with Prazi is it only really treats tapeworms, and flukes. I know due to the type of feces the fish are producing, this it is not a tapeworm. I also know that they do not have flukes, as this is an external parasite that lives in the gills of the fish, my fishes gills are fine. Thanks for the input though.
Graham
11-11-2008, 04:33 PM
How do you know that you're fish's gills are fine?:)
DiscusKeeper403
11-12-2008, 12:36 AM
How do you know that you're fish's gills are fine?:)
Because gill action is fine, not clamped, and the gills are not red. I don't see any worms in or around the gills.
On second thought the sick fishes gills seem to be opening a little too far. Not sure what that means...
Jim Curtis
11-12-2008, 01:08 AM
What was your dosage on the Metro DL? You could give another round on it and try a higher dosage before you give the Prazi a shot. If neither of those cures it then you might be going about this from the wrong way. Sure its not something move obvious? Do you have good aeration? That was something I neglected until recently and correcting it has really made a huge change in the behavior of my discus, for the better.
There issss a product called Parasite Clear from Jungle Labs that has gotten mixed reviews on this site to say the least. But it does have a "large kill spectrum". Unfortunatly that spectrum seems to sometimes include discus. Do a search.
Graham
11-12-2008, 06:12 AM
Because gill action is fine, not clamped, and the gills are not red. I don't see any worms in or around the gills.
On second thought the sick fishes gills seem to be opening a little too far. Not sure what that means...
The gills should be a nice bright meat red colour, not pale or opaque. They should not have any exccess mucus being produced. There should be no brown or rotting looking areas. If they are pale that maybe a sign of an external parasite.
Flukes are not visible at all with the naked eye and gills maggots are very obivous, , along with the damage they do.
G
DiscusKeeper403
11-12-2008, 09:23 PM
What was your dosage on the Metro DL? You could give another round on it and try a higher dosage before you give the Prazi a shot. If neither of those cures it then you might be going about this from the wrong way. Sure its not something move obvious? Do you have good aeration? That was something I neglected until recently and correcting it has really made a huge change in the behavior of my discus, for the better.
There issss a product called Parasite Clear from Jungle Labs that has gotten mixed reviews on this site to say the least. But it does have a "large kill spectrum". Unfortunatly that spectrum seems to sometimes include discus. Do a search.
Thanks for the replies both of you. Inside the gill cover, the gills seem nice and red. Exactly what you said, like red meat. The ill fish just seems like it is breathing pretty hard.
Jim, I have used Parasite Clear a long time ago, the problem with it is that it wiped out my Bacteria colony without knowing and caused me some more issues. I think I was dosing 100 mg every day (one scoopful of the SeaChem Metro per 10 gallons.) I doubt there is anything obvious wrong with the water, as like I keep saying at the moment there is only 1 fish out of 6 that is ill. I using a AquaClear 70 on the 50 gallon. I'mhave never seen any of them gasping for air.
Jim Curtis
11-12-2008, 11:56 PM
I was using a magnum 350 and a whisper 40 on my 50 gallon and I occasionally, not all the the time noticed gasping, and rapid gill movement. After I added the airstone that all went away. Worth a shot at least isnt it? Especially if you already have one laying around.
DiscusKeeper403
11-13-2008, 02:21 AM
I was using a magnum 350 and a whisper 40 on my 50 gallon and I occasionally, not all the the time noticed gasping, and rapid gill movement. After I added the airstone that all went away. Worth a shot at least isnt it? Especially if you already have one laying around.
That's true. I got an emergency battery powered air pump. I'll give that a try tomorrow, and keep you guys posted. Thanks Jim.
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