Always a runt

[Eddie]

I was just curious about runts or stunted fish. Is it pretty much the norm that when you have a group of discus and a pecking order is established, there will always be a stunted fish? Is it possible to have a group of 6 all grow out to full potential? Thanks

Eddie

[ShinShin]

Eddie,

A couple of us were discussing this the other night. All stunted fish are not runts, and all runts are not stunted. Runts tend to be runts due to genetic factors which would cause them to be smaller, not as strong, and perhaps may have some congenical problems not really known to us as the owners. These issues then aid directly or indirectly to their ability to not grow and thrive the way their siblings have. Stunted fish, however, area result of improper envirommental factors that are controlled directly by the owner of the fish. Proper food, water parameters, husbandry, etc. will cause a fish to never reach its full potential. A runt that has reached 4.5" may have indeed reached its full potential due to its genetic maladies, where as a stunted discus that reached the same length of 4.5" has not and will never reach its full potential because of improper conditions by its owner.

In breeding these fish, I would think that the owner has to know what he is dealing with in each situation. A runt would not make a good breeder because of the genetic factor, but the stunted fish may very well produce fine fry if they are properly cared for because its genetics are fine.

Those ae my thoughts for what they are worth.

Mat

[Don Trinko]

I have had the last fish in the pecking order do fine in growth and health. IMO The key seems to be if they eat well. I have had very few problems with fish that eat well.
Most of the problems I have had with discus are with picky eaters, skinny fish, ( my fault, shouldn't have bought them) and fish that I think were sick when I got them. Don T.

[Ed13]

Once again I agree with Mat.
I think of:
Runt=predetermined wheter by genetics or other factors regardless of care, food, and water provided.

Stunted= Caused by owner and/or environmental problems. Not grown to it's full genetic potential

[ShinShin]

To answer Eddie's question more directly, applying the knowledge of differentiating a runt and a stunt, the only answer could be for me, is maybe, maybe not. I, like Don, have had groups of 5-7 discus growout uniformily, which is a testament to quality genetics. Not only did no runts appear, but the fish in the group seemed to be all strong enough to mainain themsevles, and aggression was minimal. A weaker fish may have gotten all or most of the aggression, in which case two scenerios might occur. One, is that the fish does not get enough food and remains small. The fish could be getting enough food in another scenerio, but the constant stress sooner or later catches up with the discus and ailments and diseases start to appear. The fish will perish eventually, or never achieve its full potential. I have had all 3 appear in my tanks.

Mat

[Eddie]

Thanks everyone, excellent responses! Very good insight on the matter and it is good to know that if I give my fish all the best care and nutrition and they stay small, they may be runts. The reason, when the other fish in my group grow out and fully develop to max potential with the proper care, there always seems to be one or 2 that don't quite get as big as the others.

Eddie

[corrosionjerry]

I have to agree with much of what has been stated here... I purchased 6 juvenile Discus about 4 months back / changed water religiously / fed them several times each day and the water parameters were kept the same ..

I have 1 very large Discus / he was from the start a little larger then the others / I have 3 that are growing nicely / and had two that were a little smaller from the get go... one has since perished...........grrrrrrrr

Interestingly the two runts were of the same strain... I had purchased 3 Red Turks of which all are strong and healthy and 3 leopards of which two of them have turned out to be the aforementioned runts....

[Rod]

I agree with mat, great info. :)
Most breeders would cull runts i would think, at least i do. They are very small compared to others from the same spawn, and quite often swim in a strange manner, or have an unusual shape. These are the first to go in the 1st screening, at least they should be....