Fish hasnt eaten in 7 days now

[memphistriathlete]

I have a planted discus tank with 8 discus (1 month old tank, 3 1/2 inch fish). All have been doing and looking great except for 1 now has just stopped eating. He swims with the rest of the fish most of the time, occasionally he stares at of the tank but I would not say he is hiding. His colors are a little faded but not terrible. Have not seen anything other than that wrong, no white feces (at least that I have seen) or anything else strange at all. None of the other fish are picking on him and his belly is far from bloated (he hasnt eaten). When I feed the rest of the fish go to the top and eat and he just wanders off. Have tried blood worms, beef hart, flake food, pellets, and, brine shrimp. I might be jumping the gun but I am going to get a 20 gallon and some metro today just because I think that is what I am supposed to do. (would be good to have on hand anyway)
Am I overreacting? Is he just being picky?
Suggestions please? I have been digging on this site and I just havent seen this problem exactly.

[Roxanne]

While I wouldn't be so bold as to diagnose a problem you may or may not have, I got my new Melon who wouldn't eat to eat by hand feeding live blood worms right in front of her nose. A few seconds later and she couldn't resist the wriggling. LOL
Roxanne

[memphistriathlete]

Went to the LFS and told them my problem. They sold me a quarantine/emergency kit. They sold me a starter bottle of Stability, a 20 gallon tank, a 200 watt heater, glass top, and rear filter with the carbon pad removed for $40 bucks. They are the bomb. Also picked up some metro and focus for when he starts eating again.
Got home and looked at my planted tank and there he was with white feces. This was the first time I had seen it so I now was positive that I had a problem.
Drained 20 gallons out of the big tank into the 20, put in the starter dose of Stability, Metro, and aquarium salt and then got one of my pads from my canister and wrung it out in the tank. Turned on the filter and let it run for about an hour. After destroying a Amazon Queen trying to get him out I finally caught him and put him in the 20. He is traumatized, but what is he going to do...stop eating?
Ok, now I have a fish in the quarantine and have the medicine in. I am going to follow the directions and hope he starts eating soon. I know to add the metro to his food when he starts eating again. So lets say I am at that point.
How long do I leave him in there once he starts eating again? Did I miss anything?

[manitu]

hi

whats youre tank temperatur

might be worth goig up to 32-34

that can get them feeding again


regards

gerald

[MostlyDiscus]

raise the temp

[Roxanne]

If it's only 1 not eating, how is raising the temp going to help? Not that my bloodworm suggestion was any good in hindsight...A similar thread ended with the member stating they saw white poo, and realised it was a parasite...HTH

[brewmaster15]

HI Roxane,
Sometimes raising the temperature will increase a discus metabolism and get it more interested in eating..Your Idea was not bad one to try either..

That white feces does sound like it could be parasites so a hospitol tank and metronidazole are a good starting place here...

What kind of Metro are you dosing here? do you know the concentration? whats the directions you are following?

Thanks,
al

[memphistriathlete]

HI Roxane,
Sometimes raising the temperature will increase a discus metabolism and get it more interested in eating..Your Idea was not bad one to try either..

That white feces does sound like it could be parasites so a hospitol tank and metronidazole are a good starting place here...

What kind of Metro are you dosing here? do you know the concentration? whats the directions you are following?

Thanks,
al

It is by Seachem and it says dosage is 125mg/40L. Then it says use 1 to 2 portions per 40L and there is little danger of overdosing so I am doing heaping scoops of 2 doses for my 20 gallon tank. I am guessing that is going to put me somewhere between 200 and 250mg per 40L. Mixed some with food and that is what I am trying to get him to eat but he hasnt yet.
Oh, and the temp in the main tank is 86 and it DEFINITELY made the other ones hungry. The tear the food apart now instead of picking at it like they had been doing. Hospital tank is at 92.

[Roxanne]

oops, sorry memphistriathlete & brewmaster, I didn't mean to hijack that thread, I was just curious about the temp thingy...ga head...:o

[memphistriathlete]

Ok, now I have an epidemic on my hands. I have 2 other juvenile fish not eating and 6 fry 1.5" doing the same thing. I have started mixing metro with medication and feeding it to all of the fish.
I have a 20 gallon with 3 3.5" and 6 1.5" fish. I dosed with metro the first 2 days and then went to the Jungle Parasite clear which has metro and prazi in it. Nothing yet, nobody is biting at anything in the sick tank.
Now, I have tested all my tanks and the large tank (175 gallon)has .25ppm nitrites and 10ppm nitrates in it and that is the worst it has been. I am going to do a large water change tonight. Is that bad enough to cause problems? The fry tank has 0 on everything and less than 5ppm on Nitrates.
Any advice or input would be appreciated.

[dishpanhands]

metro can be dosed 400 to 500 mg per 10 gallons and can be re dosed every 8 hour..that jungle med has reports of killing all the fish in the tank so watch tank while useing it..

[Roxanne]

May I suggest a couple of things seeing as you appear desperate for your fish. (Know that feeling)
1.Test your PH hasn't crashed, that mucked up my parameters
2. I've been reading salt will help with the nitrite being high but you may want to get a proper answer of somebody like Al....

HTH
Rox:)

[memphistriathlete]

May I suggest a couple of things seeing as you appear desperate for your fish. (Know that feeling)
1.Test your PH hasn't crashed, that mucked up my parameters
2. I've been reading salt will help with the nitrite being high but you may want to get a proper answer of somebody like Al....

HTH
Rox:)

The fish are in a bare bottom tank now with tap water with prime and salt. PH is somewhere around 7.3. They came out of a well planted tank with ph of 7.

On a side note, one of the sick fish is a Red Golden Diamond and he had turned dark (redish instead of orange with black fins) in my planted tank with a black bottom and back. I removed the black background and he lightened up a little but now he is in the bare bottom he, in 1 day, turned the original color.

[1077]

I am no expert but I believe roxanne may be on to something. Is your planted tank co2 injected? Even if it's not, I would test the ph this evening in the planted tank and again the following morning to ensure there is no notable shift taking place. Some fish are more sensitive than others to even small ph swings. This could possibly stress the fish. Did you acclimate the fish slowly when you moved them from the planted tank to the bare bottom tank? As stated I am no expert I'm just throwing something out there for you to consider. Often times stressed fish are more easily suceptible to illness. I do hope your fish recover and whatever meds you use ,stick with it for the duration and dose exactly as directions indicate. Often times MORE is not BETTER.

[dishpanhands]

I am no expert but I believe roxanne may be on to something. Is your planted tank co2 injected? Even if it's not, I would test the ph this evening in the planted tank and again the following morning to ensure there is no notable shift taking place. Some fish are more sensitive than others to even small ph swings. This could possibly stress the fish. Did you acclimate the fish slowly when you moved them from the planted tank to the bare bottom tank? As stated I am no expert I'm just throwing something out there for you to consider. Often times stressed fish are more easily suceptible to illness. I do hope your fish recover and whatever meds you use ,stick with it for the duration and dose exactly as directions indicate. Often times MORE is not BETTER.


Here is the link for common treatments. It is a sticky at the top of this section.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=34834

[eqrenthorn]

I am a relative newbie to the hobby, but nothing beats proper diagnosis before attempting a cure. Oftentimes, a shotgun approach ends up doing more harm than good. :(

[1077]

Here is the link for common treatments. It is a sticky at the top of this section.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=34834

Read your information some weeks ago. Only trying to eliminate any enviornmental issues that could also further stress the fish being treated. Osomoregulatory stress in my opinion could hamper the effectiveness of any treatment. Also , if heaven forbid, bacterial infection is suspected then raising the temp not only decreases oxygen but may accelerate said bacterial infection or disease. I was only as stated, trying to help eliminate possible factors that could hamper the treatment or that may or may not compound the problem. I thank you for the heads up!:)

[dishpanhands]

Read your information some weeks ago. Only trying to eliminate any enviornmental issues that could also further stress the fish being treated. Osomoregulatory stress in my opinion could hamper the effectiveness of any treatment. Also , if heaven forbid, bacterial infection is suspected then raising the temp not only decreases oxygen but may accelerate said bacterial infection or disease. I was only as stated, trying to help eliminate possible factors that could hamper the treatment or that may or may not compound the problem. I thank you for the heads up!:)

Not eating and white stringy feces are the signs of flagellates. It was put in a hospital tank so the environment was changed also...

[1077]

:confused:OP has all fish now exhibiting similar behaivor as of yesterday. I am not disputing whether or not fish have worms. Only trying to help ensure water parameters ar not also contributing to stress of already sick fish. Not sure why you would dismiss? this. I am well aware of treatment for what seems to be the consensus having just finished treatment for same with my own fish.

[dishpanhands]

Its like this. Even If it is water problems, just fixing the water now will not save the fish. They can die from this, and right now got to save the fish..Putting them In a new tank and lots of WC's should fix environment and getting them to eat is what they need. I'm not saying this is only problem, but it is the first step and Metro and heat and lots of WC's are what have proven time and time again to help..

[1077]

With all due respect you have not said ANYTHING that I disagree with other than" fixing the water will not save the fish'' While by itself it may not save them ,moving them as you said to another tank with water changes in between doses as prescribed , can only benefit them but when moving fish from water with x =total amount of dissolved solids to water containing more or less total dissolved solids then as stated and IMHO it should be done slowly so as not to further stress already sick fish.Osmotic shock also kills fish. Most would agree that getting the fish to eat medicated food is more effective than treating the water but in this case the fish have stopped eating so water quality becomes more important andI would still take note of any ph shifts that may be happening in the planted tank between the evening and morning if indeed fish are to be returned to the planted tank at some point.

[dishpanhands]

You can work on the planted tank if you like, and Ph swing might be what stressing the fish and causing the fish to get the flagellates, but fixing PH swing in plant tank won't save the fish in hospital tank. will worry about putting it back in the other tank after they are saved. Right Now they need a double dose of metro from whats on the label(which you disagreed with) heat and water changes..only thing I been tell him is the proper dose for sick discus.

[1077]

My apologies, You are correct . I disagree with double dosing. I sincerely hope the fish recover. As stated I'm no expert and I am kicking myself for having entertained the thought even for a moment , that I may have been able to offer some measure of help. If it will bring you some comfort , I am not inclined to repeat such an obvious err in judgement again and I shall bow to your expertise on illnesses in the future.

[dishpanhands]

we were all new at it once...lol...I was just trying to help save the fish...

[1077]

I am 52 years old and while I have only been caring for discus for a couple years, I have kept and cared for fish since junior high. The one fact that I AM certain of ,Is that maintaining a stable enviornment that is conducive to a healthy immune system will give the fish the best chance of survival from many illnesses whether it be bacterial, fungacidal, or parasites. Hence my suggestion in regards to possible ph swings that happen in some planted tanks and also my concern over acclimating fish slowly to new enviornments whether it be to hospital tank or back to planted tank if and when cure is delivered.It is beyond the abilities of most , (cetainly me) to properly diagnose or identify a specific pathogen that may or may not exist . although that does not appear to be the case here. Therefore treating with meds is sometimes little more than a shotgun approach and in my view double dosing could do more harm than good though I realize many do so. I appreciate your civility and understand that you, like myself, are only trying to be helpful.

[dishpanhands]

with metro we double the dose and redose 3 time a day if needed and the bottle won't tell you that. so that is a triple double dose. lol...It works

[1077]

I shall remember.:D

[memphistriathlete]

Here is the link for common treatments. It is a sticky at the top of this section.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=34834

I had not read this before now. Dont know how I missed it.

{Intestinal Flagellates:
Symptoms: Your discus may quit eating or spit out it's food. White, stringy, muscus-like feces will hang like a thread from the anus. He may be dark in color and stay in the back of the tank away from the other discus.}

This is a perfect description of what my fish are doing. They were shuttering a little too. I havent seen them do that in a few days though. I have been trying to feed them with some brine dosed with metro. I have seen some of the juveniles eat 1. But only 1 shrimp. Maybe if this gets in their system they will get over the flagellates.

I hope my auto fish feeder gets here today. I got the Rondomatic so I can have it dose my tank and feed my fish both when I am gone on vacation next week.

[Roxanne]

I am no expert but I believe roxanne may be on to something....

Thanks for the vote of confidence 1077, but if I was onto something, it was a fluke!:D.....the only thing I do know about these fish is- it's all about the water!!.:)

Rox:balloon:

[memphistriathlete]

Update: I have kept the temp at 92 for a while now and started double dosing metro 2 days ago. Looks like this is working. They all ate a little last night. So dishpanhands is on to something.

Now that I have had some time to figure all of the out I have a very good idea of what happened. A while back, I had some staghorn algae and dosed the tank with Excel(Tested the tank at that time and values were 0A,0N, and >5 nitrates). This did kill all of the staghorn. It also melted my Italian Vals. I saw this immediately. Also in the tank was a very large bunching of hornwort that was bound together and sunk. What I didnt know is it made this loose TONS of its needles and I did NOT see this. I moved it a few days ago and there was a mound of debris decomposing on the bottom of the tank under it. Checked the water and had ammonia, nitirites, and nitrates in unacceptable amounts. Ditched all of the hornwart and vacuumed the bottom of the tank and did a %50 water change two days in a row. Levels are now 0,0,and <5. So I am pretty sure, that is what made them sick. It happened so fast!
Moved them all to a quarantine tank so 1) I would not have to medicate a 175 gallon tank, 2)didnt want to kill my plants and invertebrates, and 3) did not want the sick fish to get the other ones ill.
Once I have them all well and back in the 175, I will keep the hang on filter on the back to supplement the canister AND to be able to pull it off for a med tank if needed.
My fish appear to be on the road to recovery. I am going to leave them in the quarantine tank until after Christmas just to make sure. I want to thank everyone here for their suggestions and comments. I did NOT know what road to take and my fish would have surely died if I would have just done nothing.

[Roxanne]

Oh my God! It's a good thing you found it! Says a lot for BB tanks huh?

;)