Experts, how many juveniles to get a pair?

[Alfred]

If you're going to buy some 3" juveniles of the same type and want to end up with a pair what do the experts recommend be the number of juveniles to buy to do this?

I know some breeders when picking out fish also try and pick a few smaller fish ( as they think females are usually on the smaller side )
And a few larger fish ( as they think males are usually larger ) to give you a better chance at getting a pair.

I would like to know what experts think about this.

Thanks

[Tropical Haven]

I would buy 6 to 8 juvies but instead of size difference I pick out the ones that eat the best. Out of the above number don't be suprised to get a couple pairs out of them.

[Alfred]

So if you go to a breeder do you just ask him for the biggest fish in the tank?

Also is he wrong in his assessment of giving you small and large fish?
I think I might offend the guy by suggesting I know more than him.
He has 30 years experience and i have 5 minutes.

[Wahter]

I had a friend who is a statistician and she calculated it out that you're high up into the 95% chances of having at least 1 pair if you get 6, based on there being either male or female. So if you get 6, you should have at least one pair.

(the scary thing was she did this while she was driving me around)

:):):)


Walter

[Alfred]

What do you think about growing out 6 discus in a 30 gal tank with a hangon and sponge filter that is properly maintained ( 3 - 50% water changes a week )
and the fish are fed correctly ( 3 - 4 feedings of BW a day and sub a quaility omega flake every other day for the BW, sub a Brine Shrimp for BW twice a week )?
Any problem of stunting or anything else?
When I see a pair, put them in a 30 by themselves.

[dwilder]

a 30 would only be okay while thier young not long enough to find a pair

[Ed13]

(the scary thing was she did this while she was driving me around)

:):):)


Walter
LOL,

I vaguely remember reading of some breeder once saying the same thing. He added that for every 2 you add to the equation your chances of another pair increases.
At least 1 pair for 6
1-2 pairs for 8
2-3 pairs 10 etc. Something like that :confused::D

If I remember correctly he mentioned he was confident in this numbers as long as the fish were not chosen, say for size, shape or color.

I'm curious to see what Al, Mat(ShinShin), Rod and other experienced breeders have to say about this.

[brewmaster15]

Hi Guys,

Not to stray, but when I buy stock I don't do it with the thought of getting a breeder first.. My first goal is to get a group of healthy quality fish to grow out..... I like starting with 10-20 2" fish, or 8-10 3" fish... Usually as they grow,you'll lose one or two here or there, maybe have runt, maybe have to cull one or two over time to get a good healthy group of fish..

By the time the group Is adult, I usually have a group of 6 or so very promising ones... from that... I can usually get 1-2 pairs... Often times when you don't its because you subconciously selected and kept the often bigger males... ,or sometimes its the color you selected, and that skews things...

Hth,
al

[smsimcik]

Hi Guys,



By the time the group Is adult, I usually have a group of 6 or so very promising ones... from that... I can usually get 1-2 pairs... Often times when you don't its because you subconciously selected and kept the often bigger males... ,or sometimes its the color you selected, and that skews things...

Hth,
al

How does selecting for color skew things? Do the more colorful juvies tend to also be males?

thanks. Steve

[Marfie]

How does selecting for color skew things? Do the more colorful juvies tend to also be males?

thanks. Steve

I think the point of saying selecting color or other attributes can skew is to say that the group of discus need to be totally random in order to obey the laws of Hardy Weinberg rules of population genetics (which also assumes random mating which of course we humans know just doesn't exist). Or perhaps I am reading too much into this.

Marfie

[Rod]

Alfred, i think 6 3" juvies with a mix of sizes should give you a great chance of a pair. But i would prob place them straight into a 50 or 60 gal tank. 6 3" discus will be 6 5" discus in short order. Your 30 is a great size as a breeder or fry tank imo.

The more the better however, when i am growing out a group of juvies, the amount is proportional to the purity of the strain. for instance if you are crossing 2 strains it is a good idea to keep a lot of fry as there will be variations between the patterns, shapes and colors etc. Select purely on shape and form, then as they develop those that do not have the features you want are discarded from the group. I might start out with 20 or so in this case. For more pure strains when you can expect more homogeny throughout the spawning, i might start out with 10 or 12, then as they develop you can select your favourite ones for pairing attempts.

Rod:)

[allan_mark76]

My magic number is 10 for me. Between the chances of a runt, death, or some other unseen circumstance 10 usually works out good for me.

~AKA~