Bad Habits for Young Pairs?

[cschwaderer]

I've got a pair of Malaysian Checkerboard Turqs that are about 10-12 months old that started spawning last month. The first couple times, this pair guarded those eggs for 6-7 days without rest, cooperating, etc. I've got many other pairs and can tell when eggs are fertile and these weren't. I think the male might not yet be sexually mature, but I know from the breeding tubes and watching them that I have a male and female.

They spawned for the 3rd & 4th times and the 4th time, they guarded the eggs for about 2 days and they were gone. I'm wondering if they are forming bad egg-eating habits so by the time the male is actually fertile, they've kind of been conditions to spawn, then eat the eggs after a day or two. Is this possible?? Should I put them back in the community tank?

Thanks

[MostlyDiscus]

You say you have other pairs. Do the other pairs have wigglers now? If not then check your water. Ed

[William Palumbo]

I'm not sure if your fish are "forming" bad habits. They are fish and they do what they do. Sometimes a pair gets everything right and you get babies to raise...then the next few spawns they eat the eggs or wigglers. It happens. Not too much you can do. Usually sooner or later...mostly later they wind up getting it right...but that does not mean every spawn after that goes by the books. Maybe try covering the eggs with a screen or mesh. Maybe after a few more tries the male gets fertile and the eggs turn into wigglers and then they become better bonded and protective of them and less likely to eat them. Some Discus are just chronic egg eaters...no matter how many times they spawn...Bill

[marley]

just let them do their thing. they are still young.
after a couple of spawns most couples get it good.
(sorry for my bad english)

[John_Nicholson]

Habits are things that people learn. Fish don't really learn. They follow their basic instincts. I would say give them time.

-john

[cschwaderer]

Thanks for the comments.

Yes, my other pairs spawn and have wigglers, so I assume the Malaysian Turq pair should be able to have wigglers in the same water parameters.

I'm not sure if my Discus breeding experiences are normal or not, but I'd be interested in hearing from others about the percentage of pairs you've had that have been good parents.

The first pair that started spawning for me got it right off the bat - I noticed they were paired in the large tank, put them in their own 20 gallon and 2 days later eggs, 4 days after that wigglers, 5 days after swimmers attached to the parents. That first pair spawned over the next 2 years and the batches went 20, 30, 50, 70, and they finally topped out at 98. Needless to say, beautiful Cary Strong Blue Diamond High Bodies filled every tank I have (which is a great "problem" to have!).

Now, their F1s started pairing about a year ago at around 22 months, so I now have 4 pairs. I'm having all kinds of problems with these pairs in terms of them fighting with each other after they lay, not raising the wigglers, no attachments, eating the eggs, etc. I'm doing pretty much everything exactly as with the first pair with the exception of them being in 25-29 gallons of water instead of 20. But the parenting skills are severly lacking. So I started wondering about conditioned responses to eggs when they were infertile at a young age possibly leading to that response every time they spawn down the road when they do become sexually mature.

I've had 14 pairs over a 4 year period and 2 pairs have been good parents. I wonder - is that a "typical" percentage? Maybe there's something I could do better/differently?

As a side note, one of my F1 pairs of BDs which have spawned over 20 times with no success raising the wigglers began to fight last time to the point of the male beginning to really damage the female. I took her out and he's been parenting the 3 remaining wigglers since that time. So when I put them back in, I'm going to try taking out the female after they spawn next time and see what happens.

[marley]

[QUOTE=cschwaderer;484559]I've had 14 pairs over a 4 year period and 2 pairs have been good parents. I wonder - is that a "typical" percentage? Maybe there's something I could do better/differently?

IMO it is difficult to tell wat is a good pair because i have had pairs dat raised severals spawns and then suddenly eat te next few spawns. So to discribe what is a good pair i find difficult.

When your pairs have eggs ,try to leave them allone they don't need our help in de first 5 days. just give them a small amount off food en leave them allone. that worked for me when i started breeding discus.

[MostlyDiscus]

cscwarderer,


I agree that some pairs do a better job with the whole process. If a pair forms but they do not produce fry then sometimes I will switch out partners. I have a cross pair atm with over 120 babies(2weeks). Tangerine female and albino male. 2 weeks prior to that the male was with a albino female and although they spawned 3 or 4 times they had not even a wiggler. Great job with the BDs. Are you going to line breed those? Ed

[cschwaderer]

cscwarderer,


I agree that some pairs do a better job with the whole process. If a pair forms but they do not produce fry then sometimes I will switch out partners. I have a cross pair atm with over 120 babies(2weeks). Tangerine female and albino male. 2 weeks prior to that the male was with a albino female and although they spawned 3 or 4 times they had not even a wiggler. Great job with the BDs. Are you going to line breed those? Ed

Thanks-

Yes, my plan is to continue to line breed the BDHBs. But I've had a hard time with the F1 generation being consistent parenters. I select about 16-20 out of a batch and grow them out in my 135, taking about 4-8 out over time until I get the most desireable Discus I can out of the batch I plan to breed. Then they start to pair off, but they do this rather young - about 14-16 months. In fact, usually they spawn, eggs not fertile (no black dots in the eggs after 24 hours), then over time end up with wigglers when they're about 20-22 months.

I've currently got 5 pairs going and all of them don't parent well. Maybe its changed water parameters or something, but that led me to my original question about letting immature pairs spawn and eat the eggs, if this could cause them to have a conditioned response over time to eat the eggs within a couple days after breeding, even if their eggs are fertile.

I've got a beautiful pair of Malaysian checkerboard turqs that are sexually immature right now. they've spawned 4 times. The first time, they guarded those eggs for over a week even after they had completely fungus'd over. Since then they spawn about 5-6 days apart and eat the eggs about day 2-3. I absolutely don't want them to learn bad habits if that's possible.