cyclying new tank with old tank

[rickztahone]

forgive me for my noob question ahead of time. i've been browsing this site constantly trying to gain more knowledge. i have an established 55g tank currently. i will be getting a 125g tank soon. i saw some mixed advice on another thread that left me quite confused. first off, the 125g tank was a saltwater tank prior, and it has a canister filter. i have a hang-on water fall filter currently and i do not know much about canister filters. i know not to use carbon in them though. my question would be, do i do a fishless cycle with things from my established tank? i do not plan on transferring my filter since it's designed for a 55g only but that's what has my beneficial bacteria. a member suggested just putting everything in at once, this in my mind seems somewhat risky. do i use water from the 55g? gravel? i'm really confused :confused: and i apologize for not coming into this knowing more but i have been searching but the search function is somewhat limited. all the keywords tend to pop up in every other post which is difficult to go through one by one. i know i would have to thoroughly clean the tank itself and the filter but what do i use in a canister filter? i'll end the tirade of questions here to give you guys a break from reading. thanks in advance

[Roxanne]

Hi

re: canister filters IME Sponges are all you need. Well seeded sponges that have been cycled properly. I got some bioballs in mine for a little extra surface area. But, don't muck around with them once you set them up.

HTH
Roxanne:)

[Apistomaster]

Your filters are fine and you already have them. No need to buy more.
Use both the one from the established tank and set up the new one at the same time.
Add some fish, about the equivalent to what the old filter is already working with.
This method pretty much gives you an established tank, especially if you transfer the substrate without washing. It may be supplemented with new washed substrate. This will cause temporary cloudy water but the filters will clarify it in a day or so. The suspended crude will kick start your new filter.
During this period feed live worms if you can and lightly feed prepared foods during the first 10 days. You won't have to go through the typical cold start cycling stages if you do not over load with fish and don't over feed them.
Do make regular partial water changes. Begin the first water change on day 3 after setting up your new tank.

[rickztahone]

Your filters are fine and you already have them. No need to buy more.
Use both the one from the established tank and set up the new one at the same time.
Add some fish, about the equivalent to what the old filter is already working with.
This method pretty much gives you an established tank, especially if you transfer the substrate without washing. It may be supplemented with new washed substrate. This will cause temporary cloudy water but the filters will clarify it in a day or so. The suspended crude will kick start your new filter.
During this period feed live worms if you can and lightly feed prepared foods during the first 10 days. You won't have to go through the typical cold start cycling stages if you do not over load with fish and don't over feed them.
Do make regular partial water changes. Begin the first water change on day 3 after setting up your new tank.

well thank you very much, that was extremely helpful. the tank i'm getting comes with that canister filter included that was set-up for a saltwater tank. what i will do is transfer the filter from my 55g and everything else, substrate, decorations, and everything. after how long could i take out the 55g filter? i will be selling that one to offset the price of the 125g i'm getting. another question, on the day of the transfer, do i just fill up with my hose and condition it with de-chlorinator and add my heater in there? i have to let it get to the right temp, but it would take a while wouldn't it? i'm just having a hard time visualizing how i'm going to deal with this task. the water sitting in the tank is pretty much the same as aging water correct? it shouldn't have any effect? i could just fill up maybe half way and let it get to temp and then transfer water, substrate, filter and everything else

[rickztahone]

Hi

re: canister filters IME Sponges are all you need. Well seeded sponges that have been cycled properly. I got some bioballs in mine for a little extra surface area. But, don't muck around with them once you set them up.

HTH
Roxanne:)

roxanne i'm sorry but what is IME (in my expertise?)?. i do not currently have a sponge filter in my tank but plan on getting one shortly. i plan on letting it sit in my tank for a couple of weeks and then do the transfer over. i want to make sure everything is done correct so i want to take my time. it's going to kill me seeing the new tank in my house without being able to use it. also, the bio balls go in the cansiter filter along side some sponges? i'm sure my LFS could help me but i do not want to go in there getting something they recommend and i do not need (it's happened before, UGF!:mad:).

[Roxanne]

roxanne i'm sorry but what is IME (in my expertise?)?...... also, the bio balls go in the cansiter filter along side some sponges? i'm sure my LFS could help me but i do not want to go in there getting something they recommend and i do not need (it's happened before, UGF!:mad:).

Hi rikztazone

IME: in my experience...although I can say I have expertise in how to muck up canister filters!;) If you have to start over with your media, have you read the threads on cycling new tanks using ammonia? VERY helpful. "Graham" has written some very easy to follow and learn from posts regarding water. I know you have to start again if you go from fresh to salt cos I am looking at getting some clownfish myself.

If your canister is like most of them with usually about 3 chambers, you can throw the bio balls in the bottom one, then just a layer of sponge in each of the others. The most important thing to remember is not to open them unless they are about 200 years old or catch fire whichever happens first:D. I found that everytime I disturbed the sponges, the tanks would bloom, cloud and start to recycle because I kept disturbing the beneficial bacteria when they weren't properly cycled.

This forum is loaded with more helpful information and people than you will find in any LFS. You will save yourself time & a heap of cash if you use this forum to ask your questions. Everyone is here to help you & they don't want your money!!! Then when you go to the LFS, YOU know what you need and what is a waste of money. When I first found this forum and saw that people were using AMMONIA to cycle fish tanks, I couldn't believe it! I have yet to find a LFS who believes it either, they appear stunned when I mention it! And now, here I am doing it!

Roxanne:)

[Apistomaster]

Salvage as much of the old water as you can. Then add Prime or whatever for the rest of the water from the tap. Adjust the temperature of the tap water required to top off your new tank using your mixing faucet.

Many variables may effect a canister filter but as arule, if you merely rinse the bio-media and any sponge filter stage in aquarium water and replace the fine filter media with new, a canister filter will remain established. It is academic in your case since the canister filter will be starting from scratch. It will gather a good deal of the cloudiness that mucking the old substrate will cause and that material will speed up the cycling of the new canister filter. It is when you are able to reuse so much material from an already established tank, that you can short cut the cycling but you should not add more fish than you already have until the new filter has been running about a month. The new canister filter should be allowed 4-6 weeks before you remove the old filter and begin adding more fish.

[Roxanne]

Hi Larry

Does that mean you can go from salt water to freshwater using the same media?

THX
Rox

[Graham]

Rox I'm pretty sure that's not what Larry meant. Canister filters can be opened up bio-rinsed off new or cleaned mechanical added and there should be no change in things..

Now having said that there have been studies done on nitrifying bacteria taking them gradually from salt water to fresh and fresh to salt. Without digging out the articles, there is a transition from one species being dominate to another that is more suited to the water salinity. The system never becomes ''un-cycled''

We think of Nitrobacter as being the dominate species in freshwater but studies by Dr Tim Hovanec have shown that Nitrospira sp are freshwater and Nitrobacter are marine. There are something like a dozen species of nitrifiers each suited to a different environment...fresh, salt or soil.

[rickztahone]

wow, all of you have given me great advice and new knowledge and i thank you for it. i am part of a car forum and i know what its like dealing with noob questions but i do take the time to answer them because it important that people learn from what others have done. i will pick up the 125 tank on sunday and will probably set it up right around christmas. it will be a present for myself :-)

[Roxanne]

Merry Xmas Rickztahone
:)

Hi again Graham/Larry
Without hijacking Ricks thread...

I am looking at adding some clown fish w/- an amenome amanome anenome, pick the right one, to the collection, and the guy at a LFS said I'd have to start again with new media. (He had a product in the fridge he said was specifically designed for saltwater aquariums start up.)So, what you say about nitrifiers becoming dominant given their environment, would the following work?... If I took a fully cycled freshwater tank, emptied it and refilled it with sea water, the appropriate sea water nitrifiers would take over and colonise? And therefore, what Rickztahone is trying to do in reverse? (Except he's adding another filter?)

Thx in adv

Rox

[rickztahone]

Merry Xmas Rickztahone
:)

Hi again Graham/Larry
Without hijacking Ricks thread...

I am looking at adding some clown fish w/- an amenome amanome anenome, pick the right one, to the collection, and the guy at a LFS said I'd have to start again with new media. (He had a product in the fridge he said was specifically designed for saltwater aquariums start up.)So, what you say about nitrifiers becoming dominant given their environment, would the following work?... If I took a fully cycled freshwater tank, emptied it and refilled it with sea water, the appropriate sea water nitrifiers would take over and colonise? And therefore, what Rickztahone is trying to do in reverse? (Except he's adding another filter?)

Thx in adv

Rox


it's not hi-jacking...no worries ;).

[kenhappen2u]

Merry Xmas Rickztahone
:)

Hi again Graham/Larry
Without hijacking Ricks thread...

I am looking at adding some clown fish w/- an amenome amanome anenome, pick the right one, to the collection, and the guy at a LFS said I'd have to start again with new media. (He had a product in the fridge he said was specifically designed for saltwater aquariums start up.)So, what you say about nitrifiers becoming dominant given their environment, would the following work?... If I took a fully cycled freshwater tank, emptied it and refilled it with sea water, the appropriate sea water nitrifiers would take over and colonise? And therefore, what Rickztahone is trying to do in reverse? (Except he's adding another filter?)

Thx in adv

Rox

not sure if your planning to use the same fresh water filter without breaking it down and starting fresh . But yes ...you can take the water out of the fresh water tank , clean out very good , disinfect the tank & filter if you can ..... add your buckets of salt water mix to the tank .( note** do not mix/pour salt directly into tank ) mix buckets before hand .

your tank is still going to CYCLE even with that stuff that guy at the LFS in his fridge . at best it may jump start the process.

Clowns are pretty hardy fish (although i would not use them as a starter fish) ... and depending on the type of anenome( i picked one of your spelling choices) your gonna put in the tank they can be costly for a nice carpet anenome and not something i would want to cycle a tank with either , you could start off with some cheap pink anenome's like the $ 6 .00 type and see if the clown will take to them while your tank cycles after 4-8 weeks hope this helps ....


Ken

[Apistomaster]

I based all my recommendations on the basis that your already established 55 gal was a fresh water tank. If it is salt then you must start from scratch and take all the time it takes to establish the new tank. (I don't like the term, "cycling", it's a personal quirk of mine.)

The same applies to starting any new reef tank with a double dose of patience and caution thrown in. You can shave off some time using the materials and same techniques I described when you already have an established marine tank except I would not add but a few fish about a week after setting up the new tank using the materials from the old. I wouldn't put any thing I cared about in it immediately. I know yellow tail Blue Damsels could handle that but do you think you would want them? I happen to like them and have used them as the first fish I added to every reef tank I have ever started.
I had one pair that would spawn every week for nearly 2 years.

All "quick cycle" products, aka miracles in a can, bag or box, are just short of being snake oil. We're talking about a reduction of a few less days subtracted from 6 weeks difference between using a starter product compared to every other method. Speaking solely about a brand new tank and materials.

The bottom line is that what happens in setting up every new aquarium, regardless of what kind, is a complex process of ecological succession. It doesn't mean you must understand everything that is going on. Follow the steps outlined in any decently written book and do not be swayed by a LFS sales person. Their goal is to sell. Any losses that occur, be they from following their method or that in a book, will always be attributed to something you must have done wrong, quickly followed up with a sales pitch for other miracles in a bottle to "fix" your problems.

[Patr1ck]

Damsels are pretty hardy fish and cheap too. The black and white(Dascyllus) variations are the hardiest. Check out this link. :sun:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/dascyllu.htm

P

[Graham]

Rox if you're going to start up a marine tank then start from scratch with a clean tank/filter etc.

There are some bacterial products out there that have real nitrifiers in them and they can/will jump start a filter but the majority are snake oils as Larry mentioned....the joke is ...it takes 6 weeks to cycle a tank from scratch and 42 dyas using bottled crap

[Ed13]

Please start fresh.
Don't use damsels, unless you actually like them, good luck with that. Green chromis may be ok in tank, but unlikely they won't kill each other off and end up with 2 or 3.

As to what anemone naturally occurs with what clownfish will depend of the species or the location.
Heteractis magnifica (ritteri, skunk), Stichodactyla gigantea (carpet)
occurs with A. ocellaris, A. percula and A. clarkii for example.

Anemones are some of the hardest inverts to please in a tank, they'll walk all over it looking for more light and better flow while stinging other non motile inverts like corals and clams. They might even eat a few fish. Not to mention they can be even as demanding in some ways as small-polyped stony corals.
They are among the most light loving inverts.
There is no guarantee that clowns will actually host in it.

But, they are mesmerizing aren't they?

[Roxanne]

Rox if you're going to start up a marine tank then start from scratch with a clean tank/filter etc....

some bacterial products out there that have real nitrifiers in them and they can/will jump start a filter but the majority are snake oils as Larry mentioned....the joke is ...it takes 6 weeks to cycle a tank from scratch and 42 days using bottled crap

Hi Graham, thanks for clarity on the first part. And thanks for the giggle on the second!!:D

So is ammonia not the way to kick start a marine? I better do some more reading...;):)

Hi Ed13, I will reread your post a few times to sink it in thank you. And YES, they are mesmerising!! I love seahorses also. I think I've made a big mess of this whole thread!! Sorry people!!:)

[Apistomaster]

Hi Graham, thanks for clarity on the first part. And thanks for the giggle on the second!!:D

So is ammonia not the way to kick start a marine? I better do some more reading...;):)

Hi Ed13, I will reread your post a few times to sink it in thank you. And YES, they are mesmerising!! I love seahorses also. I think I've made a big mess of this whole thread!! Sorry people!!:)

Hi Roxanne,
The no fish/ammonia feeding method of 'cycling" a a tank and filter is one of the perfectly valid method to use.
There must always be an ammonia/nitrogen compound source and as long as there is a food source, the nitrification cycle will become established. The necessary bacterial spores are ubiquitous. Only in an isolated environment and with absolutely everything sterilized, could you not get an aquarium established. Of course that is never the case.
All methods of accelerating the process have in common a food source and some nitrogen dependent bacteria. Some methods are quicker than others and even then, you are only beginning with an extremely simple ecosystem, not really ready to take on a significant bio-load. The ecology grows in both complexity and capacity gradually and must be done in such a way as to keep pace with a gradually increasing bio-load up to it's ultimate maximum capacity. It all takes time. There are many ways to slightly shorten the amount of time but there is no practical way of creating an instant supportive environment. The shortest way to do it is to simply reuse everything from an already established tank and move it to a new tank fast enough to not allow massive die off of all the bacteria and other organisms a system depends on. It will still not be equivalent to the disturbed source tank in carrying capacity. Every aquarium set up, no matter the method used, always has to under go some time of changes before it becomes it's own stabilized, life supporting system.

[Ed13]

Anyone ever thought of a carbon source to feed bacteria? i.e. sugar, vodka
I swear Marc Weiss Bacter Vital smells like molasses (spelling??/) many other products smell sugary too!

[Roxanne]

Vodka..:D:D Speaking of fermenting sugar: If you leave a bottle of cordial in the Australian Sun long enough it will ferment and get you ..... High School Outing to Rottnest Island, WA 1988. That's me with my head over the side of the boat all the way back to the mainland!


Hi Roxanne,
...The necessary bacterial spores are ubiquitous. .... ... .. Every aquarium set up, no matter the method used, always has to under go some time of changes before it becomes it's own stabilized, life supporting system.

Hi Larry. Thank you so much for your info. This is why I was wondering why if the different species of nitrifiers are always present in numbers relevant to the environment & as Graham said, Salt, fresh or soil, and as you said they need time to reproduce to sufficient levels to support a bio load anyway, why then can't a freshwater tank be emptied of freshwater and filled with sea water so then the nitrifiers will 'rebalance' themselves into the ratio according to the change in their environment? (I didn't use the word CYCLE;)) Allowing the already established bacteria to keep the "cycle" going (oo I had 2 use it).

When I first hijacked this thread(;)) Ken asked if I was going to break the filter down and Graham recommends starting again with all new media, this is why I am wondering why does the filter have to be broken down at all? I am missing a very simple point I'm sure.

Thanks all

[Graham]

Rox while the bio maybe able to gradually switch bacteria species, there will be lots of other life forms with in the fresh system that will die...now you've got rotting organics........

As for a carbon source..a handfull of crushed coral, oyster shell...save the vodka for a Ceasar

[Roxanne]

... rotting organics........

..

See, he did it in 2 words!! Cue the theme song...:)

[Roxanne]

Hi Roxanne,
Some methods are quicker than others and even then, you are only beginning with an extremely simple ecosystem, not really ready to take on a significant bio-load. The ecology grows in both complexity and capacity gradually and must be done in such a way as to keep pace with a gradually increasing bio-load up to it's ultimate maximum capacity. It all takes time.

Thanks Again Larry

Does this explain why, when I have cycled a tank using ammonia, emptied it then add fish, the nitrites and nitrates will spike a little, then seem to adjust themselves rather quickly?

Roxanne:)

[rickztahone]

so i got the 125g tank today. it was in far better shape than i anticipated. currently the stand is a light wood color but i will be staining it and glossing it soon. also, i want to paint the background but not sure how to go about that. i will read up on that since i have not done that yet. below i have provided some pictures of the canister. unfortunately i do not think i'm going to re-use this canister. it seems to be ancient, all the parts confuse me, looks like an octopus to be honest, lol. i took it to the LFS so he can explain it and he said that it's a PITA to deal with. he says it's loud, parts are hard to replace and the maintenance isn't easy. so he recommended a eheim professional II that was 400 dollars. that's out of my budget to be quite honest. my question is would the Acqua Chiara Canister do the same job? it says that it uses Eheim 2026 Filter Pad and it works up to 150 gallons. please verify the quality of such product. or should i just bite the bullet and get a eheim? here's the pics and the last one is of the tank. no shots of the stand though.
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b284/rickztahone/newpics042.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b284/rickztahone/newpics043.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b284/rickztahone/newpics044.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b284/rickztahone/newpics045.jpg

[rickztahone]

what about the JEBAO 918 PROFESSIONAL EXTERNAL FILTER UP TO 180 GAL? these are all on ebay btw. they seem to be knock off's of the eheim.

[lauris]

The ratings put on filters are not really that helpful when deciding what you need. It also seems the filter is being put before the fish here. What are you going to keep in the tank? Plants? Frequency of water changes? In the basement or the living room? All of those things will determine what would work best for you.

Eheims are very nice filters. I had a 2213 I bought off ebay for $45 or so a few years back. I ended up selling it at a local fish club auction for that exact same price after a year or two of use. It has since come back through the auction twice and each time it sells for 35-45. Still works flawlessly I am told by its fourth or fifth owner.

To further digress, if this is more of a show tank, consider an inline heater. I set up a planted show tank in my office and incorporated an inline heater that hooked into one of the water lines on the canister. Worked great and eliminated the cord and heater in the main tank. I got it from the Dr. Foster catalog for what I considered a reasonable price.

[Ed13]

Ok, that's an Ocean Clear Canister. Expensive and great quality. I do find it a bit of a pain, but def not as hard as the LFS makes it sound and not much different than a regular canister(just with an external pump), especially since it sounds they just want to sell you a new one. Which I would say, if you don't like it or feel uncomfortable, get a Rena for $200 less than the Eheim;). Don't go for the Jebo, trust me you'll regret it big time.

One thing I love about this canisters is the versatility they offer. You can add a second or third canister in line and if I'm not mistaken you can even pressurize them, which mean you'll can polish the water big time. Actually is set up mostly to polish right now.

Like Lauris implied you'll have to think of what you want out of a flter first.

If you do keep it, I'd dissinfect it and def re-plumb it to your needs, which right now is plumbed like a big mess.
I see the little Giant has union couplings in the intake and output which is good, although a true union valve would have been better. To fix that part just install a ball valve or true union valve before the pump(prob one after too) so you can close it and keep the line primed during maintenence. It already has one at the output line of the canister to prevent a syphon and control output.
Shorten to needs the vynil tubing;)
New loc-line in the out put (more cleanly assembled;))and intake. You could do Black PVC, commercially available ones, or paint a PVC tube.
If you need more bio, mechanical, chemical media you can install a second canister in the output of the first or a housing like the ones sed in RO prefilters or HMA filters (just make sure it's threaded for 1/2" or bigger) I find them for under $20 bucks here.
You can install as mentioned before an inline heater.

*A little inside trick- You can install a ball valve and then barb in the drain portion of the canister or somewhere after the output of the pump and do quick or emergency water changes from here without having to look for a hose, get a syphon going etc. fast and easy. Just invest in some vynil tubing, keep it hook up to the barb and roll it and keep it under the cabinet like a garden hose.

Hope this info was of any use:)

[Ed13]

As for a carbon source..a handfull of crushed coral, oyster shell...save the vodka for a Ceasar
But, how fill the fish get in the mood G?!;)

Seriously though, it's the new trend in saltwater keeping. The theory is the carbon source(vodka or sugar) feeds the different bacterias allowing them to multiply faster(maybe even allow different bacterias to compete with the more aggresive growers) and increase the biofiltration.

When this started happening, I thought to myself that many of the cycle products, especially Bacter Vital smelled like sugar or molasses. Maybe it could be used to increase the cycle rate?:confused:

[TankWatcher]

Rox, not sure if you are still visiting this thread, but thought I should mention that if you're planning on doing a fishless cycle, using ammonia - you're unlikely to find the right sort in Oz. At least, no-one I have spoken to here on the various forums frequented by Oz fish keepers has found it. Several years back, yes it was available for us, but manufacturers here started adding detergent (or something to our ammonia). If you read the label, they all tend to say contents is Cloudy Ammonia. If you shake the bottle & it foams, you don't want to put that in your tank.

What I read is that the fish keeping community think the change was made to the ammonia formula as it could be used as an ingredient in home made bombs. Whatever they added to it, makes it not so suitable for the bomb makers anymore.

Since we can't find the right ammonia, we can achieve the same effect to cycle a fresh water tank by putting a raw prawn in a stocking, then so it doesn't make a mess while it rots, putting that in a bowl. Tank goes through a smelly stage, but the end result is your tank is fully cycled just as if you had followed the ammonia dosing schedule.

EDIT: Not sure if it is safe to cycle a sw tank with a sea water prawn. A few pieces of live rock in the tank will cycle a sw tank for you. That's how we did ours. Took about 3-4 weeks (I think). It was a few years ago now.

(sorry to hijack the thread rickztahone)

[Roxanne]

.. you're unlikely to find the right sort in Oz. At least, no-one I have spoken to here on the various forums frequented by Oz fish keepers has found it. ..
What I read is that the fish keeping community think the change was made to the ammonia formula as it could be used as an ingredient in home made bombs. Whatever they added to it, makes it not so suitable for the bomb makers anymore.
.
(sorry to hijack the thread rickztahone)

Mate, Are you kidding me? I have been using it!!! Are the fish ok then?? I mean , I worked out pretty quick by the weird looks I was getting that asking for pure ammonia put me on the "heightened security risk" list in the local hardwares I can tell you that!! The guy goes."what do you want pure ammonia for?" I said to cycle an aquarium, and he goes are you kidding me and I go No and he goes .."ask at the LFS"! Like they'd have a clue! So I have been using cloudy ammonia!!!!!!!!! I shook it & it foamed!!!Robyn what have I done? And what are you doing up at 2 in the morning??:)

Sorry rickztahone, I will start a new thread..

[rickztahone]

Ok, that's an Ocean Clear Canister. Expensive and great quality. I do find it a bit of a pain, but def not as hard as the LFS makes it sound and not much different than a regular canister(just with an external pump), especially since it sounds they just want to sell you a new one. Which I would say, if you don't like it or feel uncomfortable, get a Rena for $200 less than the Eheim;). Don't go for the Jebo, trust me you'll regret it big time.

One thing I love about this canisters is the versatility they offer. You can add a second or third canister in line and if I'm not mistaken you can even pressurize them, which mean you'll can polish the water big time. Actually is set up mostly to polish right now.

Like Lauris implied you'll have to think of what you want out of a flter first.

If you do keep it, I'd dissinfect it and def re-plumb it to your needs, which right now is plumbed like a big mess.
I see the little Giant has union couplings in the intake and output which is good, although a true union valve would have been better. To fix that part just install a ball valve or true union valve before the pump(prob one after too) so you can close it and keep the line primed during maintenence. It already has one at the output line of the canister to prevent a syphon and control output.
Shorten to needs the vynil tubing;)
New loc-line in the out put (more cleanly assembled;))and intake. You could do Black PVC, commercially available ones, or paint a PVC tube.
If you need more bio, mechanical, chemical media you can install a second canister in the output of the first or a housing like the ones sed in RO prefilters or HMA filters (just make sure it's threaded for 1/2" or bigger) I find them for under $20 bucks here.
You can install as mentioned before an inline heater.

*A little inside trick- You can install a ball valve and then barb in the drain portion of the canister or somewhere after the output of the pump and do quick or emergency water changes from here without having to look for a hose, get a syphon going etc. fast and easy. Just invest in some vynil tubing, keep it hook up to the barb and roll it and keep it under the cabinet like a garden hose.

Hope this info was of any use:)

ok, no offense but i am more confused than when i saw the canister for the first time :D. keep in mind i have never dealt with a canister and i'm not even sure how they work or where the beneficial bacteria is kept. i saw the Rena you recommended and that sounds like a better choice for me since it seems more simplistic. the Rena would have to be the XP3 correct? to answer a previous question by lauris, i only have one plant and that's a wisteria that's just floating, i do weekly WC's, location is in our dining area which is not close to a window. i do not plan on keeping the Ocean clear canister due to what i said earlier, it's just too confusing for me. the LFS guy showed interest in it and i'm sure he'd take it off my hands in exchange for something (not sure what the value is though). how often would that Rena have to maintained? what are the parts that need to be bought for it? what is primed? Ed13 i'd like to thank you and Roxanne for helping so much through all these beginners questions. for some reason it seemed like the LFS was try to confuse me more . that is why i like dealing with you guys here so that when i go there i know what to expect.

[rickztahone]

(sorry to hijack the thread rickztahone)

no apologies needed. the more info is here in this one thread that is related to "cycling" the better. i for one need all the help i can get. this goes for you too Rox, keep the hijacking coming, as long as my questions eventually get answered though :D

[Roxanne]

... where the beneficial bacteria is kept....


:D There's a special compartment labeled "Nitrifiers this way" ...Sorry couldn't resist...As the Apistomaster would say, they are ubiquitous! All over the surfaces of everything in the filter. Your filter does look a little non user friendly, but surely will do the job just fine if you can get it back together! You have probably noticed these days the canisters have baskets that fit inside one another, & a intake & output, yeah? Why are you paying so much though? I got one online for $60.00 AU$ which is about $40US I think.(1050litres/hr which is about 300gallons/hour) I compared the cheap one I got to an expensive one & couldn't see any difference: baskets & hoses & a pump!! Of course your other option is air driven sponge filters like is used for 'fries'. These are the only type of filters I will ever buy again! With the sponge filters you just need to attach an air hose to it! And they are VERY cheap!!

Rox:)

[rickztahone]

i found a filter in petco but wanted to check with you guys to see if it's good quality. it is a Penn-Plax CASCADE 1500?

[Ed13]

ok, no offense but i am more confused than when i saw the canister for the first time :D.
None taken!:)

keep in mind i have never dealt with a canister and i'm not even sure how they work or where the beneficial bacteria is kept.
Everywhere, mostly on porous surfaces. Some things are better suited for bacteria motels:D(they basically eat and reproduce)

i saw the Rena you recommended and that sounds like a better choice for me since it seems more simplistic. the Rena would have to be the XP3 correct?
I guess it is easier, although it's pretty much the same you have except factory assembled. Think of it as buying a 2008 corvette, vs a 70's model you'll have to work on. It is a bit more flexible since you are putting it together, but harder to get it working good. Hopes this makes sense.

Do shop around and gt as much feedback as you can! I only recommended the Rena because I've worked with a lot of them and except for early models. They are cheap, easy and reliable in my opinion.

do not plan on keeping the Ocean clear canister due to what i said earlier, it's just too confusing for me. the LFS guy showed interest in it and i'm sure he'd take it off my hands in exchange for something (not sure what the value is though
I'm sure he would:). He'd be able to retail it or use it in house. If he is any smart he'll be able to use it for maintanence in his tanks. Of course he could be thinking of taking it so he can get to offer you a new canister;) is he a smart business man:D lol.

how often would that Rena have to maintained? what are the parts that need to be bought for it? what is primed?
Cleaning will depend on your stocking level, the media in it, and wether you have a sponge prefilter on it. Some people like to clean them often some don't so they protect the media inside from excess detritus and foods in order to prevent clogging.
Rena comes with everything you need and even to different output setups.
Primed in this situation means to keep the lines feeding the filter full of water and holding a syphon. It is easier and the correct method to operate a canister filter keeping air out of it. You'll need to read instrucctions of how to setup whatever you end up buying. Regardless of the model though, you'll need to prime the lines and fill the canister completely to work properly.

Ed13 i'd like to thank you and Roxanne for helping so much through all these beginners questions.
No problem man I help where I can and hopefully I don't give incorrect info:D

[TankWatcher]

Hi Rox

Up at 2am, 'cause my heckel needs med's & water changes
Anyway, I'll send you an email with what little info I have. I guess your fish weren't in the tank at the same time as you were adding the ammonia, given that ammonia is used for a "fishless" cycle? Probably you did a big enough water change before your fish went in, so that everything was so diluted that no harm was done.

[lauris]

Since the tank is in the living area, you want a canister filter. Buy a Fluval or Penn Plax or whatever is cheapest rated for your gallonage. Look on ebay and get it shipped to you from Singapore or wherever for cheapest. You just want something that will circulate water through the canister and they all do that. Look for the inline heater as I mentioned earlier as it will make the tank look cleaner and less cluttered.

Run the HOB (hang on back) filter for three-five weeks (ok, six) and that will seed your canister while ensuring your new tank runs without undue spikes in water quality, assuming you do the water changes you indicate. If you want to get fancy, cut or cram one of the HOB filter pads into the canister as well.

The filter that came with your new bigger tank is very nice, heavy duty and quite useful in the right environment. I am betting that pump is loud though. Personally, I would put it up for sale amongst the local Aussies who have posted on this thread and let them, sobriety permitting of course and that is not a given, set a price. When they come to pick it up, make them bring cash and keep your daughter(s) in hiding and it will all work out splendidly.

[rickztahone]

The filter that came with your new bigger tank is very nice, heavy duty and quite useful in the right environment. I am betting that pump is loud though. Personally, I would put it up for sale amongst the local Aussies who have posted on this thread and let them, sobriety permitting of course and that is not a given, set a price. When they come to pick it up, make them bring cash and keep your daughter(s) in hiding and it will all work out splendidly.

why Aussies though? i'm in Cali. i would like to know how much i could sell it for and where? i do not want to make a profit at all here. i just want someone to have this that can use it in their application without being ripped off. it would have to be a local pick up though. please guide me to the right place in the forum (i'm thinking on the buy and sell, duh right?). i saw a rena xp3 on 4petdirect.com for 119 plus 8 dollar ship. not bad at all. thanks for the recommendation. any more info welcomed with open arms here

[rickztahone]

another quick question. while i'm at 4petdirect.com i see a Rena - SmartHeater Aquarium Heater 300w. is this the inline heater that you were talking about Ed13? if so i might just purchase it at the same time and save on shipping. would i need to cut the tubing from the intake to tap into it?

[Roxanne]

Personally, I would put it up for sale amongst the local Aussies ...make them bring cash and keep your daughter(s) in hiding and it will all work out splendidly.

Dude! What do you think we are? Cash.....daughters...? We don't want your cash or your daughters! We prefer VISA & the first born male child!:p


:D

[lauris]

Somehow I got confused as to where you were, and am blaming the Australians for that.

For the inline heater, you will need to cut one of the hoses on the canister filter and hook the heater in there. It is very easy. I don't remember if it needs to be on one or the other of the hoses (intake vs outflow) but the heater will have adequate instructions in that regard.

If you can find a local fish club you should be able to find that big filter a good home. Even ebay with local pickup. Our club has auctions a few times a year and you might find one of those as well.

[Roxanne]

It's 'our' fault you can't read?