C02 Reactor Help

[TankWatcher]

Hi :)

Recently I visited calihawker' thread about his beautiful planted discus tank, which looked absolutly great BTW.

As I don't get enough C02 distribution, I hope to copy what Steve has done.

Hope you visit this thread Steve, or for that matter, anyone who might be able to help this clueless DIY Aussie work out how to do it.

I get the general concept, just not the nitty gritty of how it all joins up together? I've included your pics, Steve, with Q's. I hope you don't mind.

The first pic shows one type of tubing you use.

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/TankWatcher/Odd%20Bods/mini-DSC003511.jpg http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/TankWatcher/Odd%20Bods/mini-DSC00354-11.jpg

The 2nd pic, shows the other tubing - the one with the drilled holes.

How & at what point does this tube leaving the & reactor join up with the black tubing in the tank:confused: How did you join it:confused:

The tube you have in the tank, drawing water into the reactor - how does that look in the tank:confused: Do you have a filter intake on the end of it - or is it just a pipe that ends in the tank:confused:

Sorry, even more questions.

Do you need to clean inside the reactor or any of this tubing from time to time:confused:

Would it be possible to run all this from the filter, instead of a separate pump.:confused: Only because i am wondering if it matters that unfiltered water is going into the reactor:confused:

Anyway, that's enough questions for now. Thanks in advance for any help.

[calihawker]

Hey Robyn.
I'll shoot some pics today showing the plumbing from start to finish and post them to this thread.


You can run it from the output of your existing filter. Describe what you have, maybe take a picture, and let's see if we can adapt it.



Steve

[Wahter]

Some more information about the size of your tank, lighting and water parameters (like kh) will help, plus let us know what you have already.




Walter

[TankWatcher]

Thanks Steve & Walter

I'll take some pics of my equipment set up & give tank details when I get home.


I'll shoot some pics today showing the plumbing from start to finish and post them to this thread. That would be so great, thank you :)

[TankWatcher]

Hi again :)

Here are tank details:

7ft Tank
Capacity, if it was BB, is 138G (US). Since it's planted, it holds somewhat less, with the decor in there.
Compact pc light with 4 x 96W, arranged in 2 rows, with individual switches
There is a moon light, but that's not important for the plants
Lights are set on split timer
Filter: 2 x eheim pro II 2028
25W UV
Pressurised C02
Dupla Regulator & Bubble Counter
Sera pH controller / solenoid combo
Ferts: following EI


Right side
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/TankWatcher/138G_523L_Discus%20Tank/000_0767.jpg
CO line travels from the regulator to the pH controller, from there to the bubble counter & from there to the tank

The filter on right side runs the UV.

Left side
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/TankWatcher/138G_523L_Discus%20Tank/000_0768.jpg
Just the filter on the left side.

Problems
Not enough C02
I'm sure there is a dead spot in the middle of the tank.

Because of the dead spot, would I be better to stick with the way you have it Steve, adding a dedicated power head to take the C02 into the tank:confused: Will the pump help with the dead area, or do I need a separate one for that:confused:

Appreciate any help you can give me :)

[calihawker]

A couple questions for you.
What's your water chemistry like? Specifically PH,KH,TDS. Besides EI are you treating water change water? How are you currently dissolving c02 in the water column, airstone diffuser? I'm assuming you're coming out of your eheim's with spraybars at the surface? How are you measuring the amount of c02 in the tank? How do you have the water coming from the tank to the eheims? Any other powerheads in the tank?

If it's just the eheims moving water at a combined rate of ~550 gph, I don't think it's enough circulation which means a seperate pump/reactor setup and/or power heads in the tank. Personaly I don't like the look of a bunch of powerheads cluttering up my 'scape:)

Sorry about all the questions. It'll help.
Let me know.


Steve

[TankWatcher]

What's your water chemistry like? Specifically PH,KH,TDS. C02 is pH controlled. Currently, I have the control pH set at 5.9 - but the pH never makes it that low. Currently it's sitting at 6.86. My guess for it never reaching target are 1) insufficient pH saturation & 2) My bubble rate keeps slowing down. I have to check it every day & nearly always need to turn the rate up higher. Next day, it's dropped again :mad:

I've never tested for TDS & don't have a kit. My water is really soft. I will test it tomorrow.


Besides EI are you treating water change water? Do you mean chemically? I age my water in a heated & aerated storage tank. Water is treated with prime. Sometimes I add Equilibrium to the tank, after wc - but I am a bit slack on that.


How are you currently dissolving c02 in the water column, air stone diffuser? Originally, C02 was just coming straight from the bubble counter into a rhinnox diffuser (sorry, I know spelling is prob wrong). Plan was to split the line & have a rhinnox at each end of the tank. Anyway, I now have the C02 air line connected to the venturi in the pic. Was going to do the same at end end of the tank, until I read your link. I can still see the bubbles rising to the top of the tank, so the venturi isn't strong enough. But like you, I'm not prepared to have a big ugly pump recking up the scape.

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/TankWatcher/138G_523L_Discus%20Tank/000_0777.jpg http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/TankWatcher/138G_523L_Discus%20Tank/000_0776.jpg


I'm assuming you're coming out of your eheim's with spray bars at the surface? No, completely separate from the filter. Spray bar is below the surface.
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/TankWatcher/138G_523L_Discus%20Tank/000_0774.jpg http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/TankWatcher/138G_523L_Discus%20Tank/000_0775.jpg


How are you measuring the amount of c02 in the tank? Well, I have the link http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm for chuck's measuring systems, but truthfully, I haven't measured it. I just know there is not enough as pH is not going low enough (where as when this was all in my 43G it managed fine) & also as I am sure that water circulation is not as good as it should be & because I struggle with BBA.


How do you have the water coming from the tank to the eheims? Any other power heads in the tank? One intake either end of the tank. You can see one of them in the picture of the C02 venturi. No other power head.


If it's just the eheims moving water at a combined rate of ~550 gph, I don't think it's enough circulation which means a separate pump/reactor setup and/or power heads in the tank. Think you're right.


Personally I don't like the look of a bunch of power heads cluttering up my 'scape:)
couldn't agree more. That's why I want to copy you :p ;)

[TankWatcher]

Hi Steve

My KH is 2. I think I've answered all questions, but pls let me know if I missed something :)

EDIT: What size pump do you think (eg how many US G per hour) should I be looking at getteing to run the reactor.

[calihawker]

So first to answer one of your questions about the pic showing the tubes going in and out of the reactor, that's the same tubing that came with my filstar xp's. Probably the same that comes with your eheim's. 5/8 ID hose.

So the whole deal is how to get in and out of the tank, and how many ways are there to do that:shocked: All I can do is show you from start to finish what I did. I know a lot of people like to plumb everything with rigid pvc pipe which makes it all clean and solid and it looks good, less clutter, but after my reef tank experience, always wanting to tinker, I did this tank with a lot of hose.

Anyway you have some kind of hose or pipe feeding the eheims. Just duplicate that to go into the reactor pump. Probably the easiest for you.

What I did was increased the size of the pipe coming in to 1" so it would accomodate both the reactor and an xp4,

http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr356/calihawker/mini-DSC00384.jpg


and then tee it off under the tank. Here's where I adapt from 1" pipe to 5/8 hose with barb adapters.


http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr356/calihawker/mini-DSC00388.jpg



From there it's 5/8 hose in and out of the reactor as shown in the previous post and then goes back to the top of the tank and adapts to the 1/2" sprinkler tubing. This pic shows hose to hose barb to pvc pipe adapter and finally a fitting for the tubing.


http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr356/calihawker/mini-DSC00385.jpg


The sprinkler tubing comes in rolls as small as 20 ft. and the fittings don't require any gluing or threading, you just shove the end of the tube into the fitting and it creates a seal. There are elbows, tees whatever you need.

http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr356/calihawker/mini-DSC00392.jpg

http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr356/calihawker/mini-DSC00390.jpg


Then it's just a matter of snaking the tube down and along the bottom between plants from one end to the other. I drilled 3/16 diameter holes about 3 inches apart along the whole thing. At the end, the tube is folded and then secured to seal the end.


http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr356/calihawker/mini-DSC00386.jpg


I'm using a magdrive 950 gph pump to drive the reactor. I think you should go with something at least 500 gph.

[calihawker]

I know this thread is equipment specific but I wanted to throw my 2 cents in regarding chemistry and the ability to monitor c02 levels. Sounds like our water is very similar so we can relate. Mine is actually softer if you can beleive that. Less than 1 dkh. I add potassium bicarbonate to raise kh to 3-4 and more importantly I add gh boosters, similar to equilibrium, to add hardness. I think this is very important. Don't slack on it. If buying equilibrium becomes too expensive with your large w/c each week, I can give you a gh booster formula. You're probably ok with 2 dkh but get a gh test kit and check that.

Chucks site is a great resource for chemicaly related stuff, but there are so many variables affecting ph and kh that the c02 chart just hasn't worked for me and many others I talk with. If I were to go by the chart, my tank is kh 3.5 ph 6.15, that would put c02 levels at more than 70ppm! Not only are my fish not gasping but I still have a little gsa going on.

What a lot of people are doing now including me, is using drop checkers. But even those are subject to variables like where in the tank they sit, good circulation, but they give a better picture. Ultimately you'll go by how the tank and fish look:) I would get at lest 1 drop checker and put it midway down in the tank where you know you have good circulation.


Steve

[TankWatcher]

Hi Steve

Thanks so much for all of this. By drop checker, do you mean those permanent test that you leave in the tank permanently? I have a few of those, but stopped using them because the forum I was on when I bought them, didn't like them. If they're what you mean, I'll check I still have the solution & put one in the tank. The middle of the tank is where I think I have least circulation. I might start a separate thread later & ask if I should have the filter return set up differently, though I'm limited by the access points allowed by the tank maker.
I'm using a magdrive 950 gph pump to drive the reactor. I think you should go with something at least 500 gph.Will the pump that drives the C02 help with the circulation problem I think I have. If if will, is bigger, better? Is there a point where bigger is too big (given tank size 138G). I'd rather get bigger now, if that's what's needed, but only as big as won't send the discus crazy & exhausted swimming against a strong flow. If I got the same as you, given that your tank is 300G (I think) will that be too much for my 138G?

Thanks for taking the time to post all those pictures :)

[calihawker]

Hi Steve

Thanks so much for all of this. By drop checker, do you mean those permanent test that you leave in the tank permanently? I have a few of those, but stopped using them because the forum I was on when I bought them, didn't like them.

Yes, again they are subject to interpretation but compared to the chart I think they are a whole lot closer to reality. Two or three in the tank at various levels would be good. Just make sure you have a good 4dkh solution in them.



I might start a separate thread later & ask if I should have the filter return set up differently, though I'm limited by the access points allowed by the tank maker.Will the pump that drives the C02 help with the circulation problem I think I have. If if will, is bigger, better? Is there a point where bigger is too big (given tank size 138G). I'd rather get bigger now, if that's what's needed, but only as big as won't send the discus crazy & exhausted swimming against a strong flow. If I got the same as you, given that your tank is 300G (I think) will that be too much for my 138G?


I've been thinking about this one for a while and I looked at a bunch of posts from other forums and there's really no good answer. Bigger is definatley better because you can always choke the flow with a valve. I don't think it's how much circulation but how that water flow is distributed around the tank. I mean if you think about it say you have 500 gph coming out of a 1/2 diameter nozzle, thats gonna blast fish to the other side of the tank:shocked: but run it through a length of spray bar and you have a nice calm flow. The key is how you position the spraybar so that every part of the tank gets a little water movement. Of course this gets more difficult as plants grow in. To answer the question I think 500's enough 750 whould be better and 1000 is probably overkill. If you have a 7 foot spraybar along the length of your tank, you'll be surprised how little force will come out of the holes even at 750gph.


Thanks for taking the time to post all those pictures :)


My pleasure:D


Steve

[TankWatcher]

Thanks again Steve

I'm thinking of this in line pump http://www.aquariumproducts.com.au/catalogue_products.php?prodID=3522&catID=13
Converts to 1109 gph, so may be a bit much. I have to ask if it is adjustable flow. Add doesn't say.

The next smaller model is http://www.aquariumproducts.com.au/catalogue_products.php?prodID=3520&catID=12 which is only 554gph, so it's a bit low.

These are the best priced in lines I've been able to find. Some of the others, by the time they are up around the right gph are AU$350-$450 & I really don't want to spend that much.

Say if the 1109 gph doesn't have an adjustable flow rate, do you think, it is too strong. Like you say, with all those spray bar holes, it will be an even spread with force reduced.

[TankWatcher]

Supplier tells me the above pump's flow rate is adjustable, but that it isa fairly noisy pump.

He suggests this:-

http://www.aquariumproducts.com.au/catalogue_products.php?prodID=3995
3000lph or or 792 gph (3.4m Head Height)

or

http://www.aquariumproducts.com.au/catalogue_products.php?prodID=3996
4200 Lph, 1,109 gph (3.5 Head Height)

What do you think would be best for me. Sadly they're getting more expensive, but I guess I don't wont something noisy.

[calihawker]

I can't imagine that you'd anything bigger than the 792. That's 160% more flow than you have already and it'll be spread out along the whole tank.

I think your good with that.


Steve