110 in 3rd story?

[DiscusDude85]

Heres my question, Im moving into an appt tomorrow its a 3rd story, Same buidling im in now, I currently have a 60 in my 3rd story with no problems, Its a 3 story building so im sure its wood and not concrete inbetween floors. Anyone here ever do this? Any advice would be appreciated.



Joe

[DiscusDude85]

bump

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

I have a 90 on a 2nd story floor. No problems what so ever.

-Ryan

[GrillMaster]

I would try and put the tank to run across the support beams instead of the same direction as them...:)

Dont forget to turn the water off while fillin up the aging barrel!!! Ya might have some unhappy tennants downstairs! ;) :D :D

[architect1]

i have a 110g tank on a 3rd story and no problems knock on wood. But i have insurance so if anything happens I'm good.

older houses are better because the joists are bigger but now with the building codes getting worse and worse, builders can build cheaper and use not as strong materials. Trees also are getting weaker because of how there grown and everything else that fallows so id say you ok for now but future not to bright. Unless u build custom and make it stronger.

the more joists u sit it on the better you can tell which way but finding where ur room is and the rule of thumb is the joist always runs the shortest way. and there every 16" on center from the outside wall

[Peachtree Discus]

Call the apartment complex under a fake name and tell them ur shopping for apartments. tell them u have a large fish tank and openly ask then if they used wood/concrete and if there is any issue/policy. then you will the know exactly the situation you're in and they will not know it is you. if you're really paranoid (like me)....call from a different phone.

[architect1]

Thats true but watch out some landlords don't want you to have pets and what happens is they say no as soon as they her fish and tank.

I know in Ontario even if your contract says now smoking and no pets your aloud to because your renting the space. its your space for how ever much you rent it for. So when I move I say nothing about my fish tank and then they have a problem tough luck. its my rented space and I have payed for it already.

[Peachtree Discus]

thats 1 reason i say call as a potential new customer. if they already have your $$ then it may be be a lot easier to simply say "no" and be done with it. if they want new $$$ (and they do), they may not want to turn you away so quickly. tell them you are considering a 2 or 3 year stay in a 3 bedroom and i bet they say no problem about the fish. then you can always tell them that "fill-in-the-name" told me that blah blah blah....which will technically be true.

[DiscusDude85]

Thanks for the replies all, My appt complex is completely cool with fish, They dont consider them pets, They say it cant cause damage, What do they know lol!. Im sure its wood floor maybe a very thin layer of concrete, The appts were built about 5-10 years ago, Im trying to get the architectural plans see exactly what the building is made of. Thanks again all, And if it falls through the floor ill be posting hahaha.


Joe

[thekeem]

150 gal on the 22nd floor, no problems here; though i was equally paranoid at the start (this thing must weigh at least an imperial ton)

[Wahter]

You can also ask the landlord about having a piano or water bed - those are two heavy items; if they say "okay", you're all set. ;)


Walter

[bs6749]

150 gal on the 22nd floor, no problems here; though i was equally paranoid at the start (this thing must weigh at least an imperial ton)


That's because you have concrete floors under you which can support far more weight.

I would also strongly recommend putting the tank so that it runs perpendicular to the support beams of the floor as there is more strength there (more beams to support weight). Also, put the tank on a load-bearing wall and don't put it in the center of the room. It will have to go against a wall in order to work IMO. Also remember that just because it's a 150g that doesn't mean that it HAS to hold 150g. You could put 130g in the tank which would shave something like 160lbs off of the weight. Fully loaded you'd be looking at at least 1500lbs and most likely over 1600lbs.

Also, it's not correct to think that since the area of the floor you want the tank to go in can hold the weight of you and 10 of your buddies that it should hold 2000lbs of weight. The beams would stress OVER TIME and you and your buddies would stand there for most likely 30 seconds and say "muh, it held, lets go get the tank." I'd also recommend insurance in your end to cover the possible water damages to your neighbors below.


You can also ask the landlord about having a piano or water bed - those are two heavy items; if they say "okay", you're all set. ;)


Walter

Water beds can weigh quite a bit, up to 1500lbs from what I checked. This is deceiving however in that this weight is spread over a large area and it has less weight per area than a loaded refrigerator! Bet you wouldn't have imagined that.

[Don Trinko]

What I do ( old 2 story house) is stand on one foot and bounce on the floor. If the floor moves too much I try another spot.
With a 160 I presume you will have a wood stand. With a wood stand the weight is distributed on the floor much better than a metal stand so I don't think you will have a problem. If it were a metal stand I would put a peice of wood under each corner to help distribute the weight. Don T.

[bs6749]

What I do ( old 2 story house) is stand on one foot and bounce on the floor. If the floor moves too much I try another spot.
With a 160 I presume you will have a wood stand. With a wood stand the weight is distributed on the floor much better than a metal stand so I don't think you will have a problem. If it were a metal stand I would put a peice of wood under each corner to help distribute the weight. Don T.

Don, that's a terrible way to judge if a tank THAT LARGE can be held by the floor. You are basically using an impact force to assess the capability of the tank being held LONG TERM. I understand that you are trying to see if the beams are weak or not but that method is no good IMO.

Also, I agree that a wooden stand with a rectangular shape and bracing in between in concact with the floor is the way to go in order to minimize the weight per area.

[Don Trinko]

I'm not a mechanical engeneer but I would think the stress put on the house floor with me (250 lbs, the impact would be much higher) jumping on one foot in a small area would be much more than the stress of a fish tank (1600 lbs) spead out over a large area?
Don T

[bs6749]

Don, I'm no mechanical engineer either, actually I'm going to school to be a CHEMICAL engineer. Think this falls more into the category of a civil engineer though. Regardless of that, there are differences between such an "impact force" or impulse and a resting mass. The force of the tank applied onto the floor would be over 6680N and most likely, the tank wouldn't fall through the floor (let's assume that). However, an impact for such as you jumping up and down COULD cause the floor to break when a larger resting force would have held. This doesn't mean however that since you didn't fall through the floor a large tank would not eventually cause the floor to collapse. The two aren't really comparable and that's what I'm trying to show you and everyone else so a mishap doesn't happen!

Saying that the force per area exterted by your feet being much greater than a tank may be true but you'd need to use something like the Shear Modulus to evaluate what force would cause a hole of the material in the floor to form.

[Don Trinko]

With no malis intended; Most of us are not familiar with the shear modulus so we resort to cruder methods. You are correct; I am assuming that If I jump and don't hear wood cracking that the floor is strong enought to take my jumping and I am extrapolating that to mean that a fairly big tank will not fall thru. Actualy I am feeling more for flexing of the floor. I can picture a floor that will not break but would flex enough to cause a leak.
I guess it might be more scientific to mark the spot on the floor and then get enough freinds whos total weight eaquels the proposed tank weigh to stand together in that spot and see what happens. LOL ; Don T.

[bs6749]

Don, I understand what you are saying about the Shear Modulus. I'm not that familiar with it other than going over it in my Engineering Physics course. I'm sure a structural engineer or builder would be able to expand on the ideas behind it.

You COULD mark a spot and see what happens, but you'd be waiting a long time as in years to notice a difference. Might want to chew that one over with a Twix!

[DiscusDude85]

After 4 days of back breaking moving its finally done. Holy smokes a 110 is HEAVY!. Thank God for handtrucks. Ive got the 110 placed where i'd like it. Its on 2 exterior walls, I put it cady corner in a corner of my living room. Hope that the structure will hold. Thanks for all the advice guys and gals.



Joe

[DiscusOnly]

A woman on stilleto heel could jump up and landed to punch a hole on the floor but that doesn't mean the floor can't handle the weight of the fish tank. It's very important on how the load is spread across the floor support. The general run is to put the tank lenghwise perpendicular to the floor joist.

[DiscusDude85]

I've setup the 110, My building didnt colapse : ) . Now all i have to do is throw my discus in it. Ill be posting pics shortly. Thanks for all the input everyone.




Joe

[Roxanne]

I've setup the 110, My building didnt colapse

I'm sure the people underneath you are very pleased too!;):D

[Eddie]

Hopefully the weight of the Discus doesn't bring it all down Joe! :D

Eddie

[DiscusDude85]

Hopefully the weight of the Discus doesn't bring it all down Joe! :D

Eddie

lol. Ive got some lightweights. Nothing like these other guys. Im still trying though. Ive thrown my 3-4 inchers in the 110 as well. Had to make room for my 1 inchers, They are growing nicely. I bought a few reds and one white diamond cant wait to see them all together in the 110, It appears empty Ive got 8 discus in it. Soon enough i guess.



Joe

[Apistomaster]

Nearly all multi-story apartment buildings built in the USA since 1970 can handle a 150 gal tank place along a load bearing wall.
My background is as Licensed Special inspector of structural construction in earthquake zones III and IV as well as lower risk zones for 27 years. Mainly complex reinforced, post-tensioned concrete structures.

Highrises, More than 4 stories may only use wood frame construction but most floors have a thin concrete overlay. There is no clear dividing line between low rise and higher but any high rish is going to be framed in reinforced concrete and quite likely post tensioned concrete floor slabs. These structures wouldn't notice the additional load a 150 gal tank would impose.

Jumping up and down provides no useful information regarding the soundness of the structure with regard to supported large aquariums.
Shear strength is just a materials resistance to being 'ripped or "punched" through by an imposed load. Shear modulus is used in structural engineering calculations. Minimums are established in the USA by the ICBO, International Conference of Building Officials and local building departments. ICBO has been incorporated into all State building code laws.
However one may feel about the quality of modern building materials, they must deliver the minimum specified qualities and the trend has been through better engineering, to do ever more with ever less. This does not mean new buildings aren't as well built as older ones. The old builders just used to over design because they did less design calculating.

[Darrell Ward]

I put steel basement jacks on the joists directly under my 240 gal. just as a precaution. I'm glad I did in hindsight. If you flick the jacks with your fingernail, it makes a high frequency "ping". Lot of weight there. Hey Larry, any plans to finish your website soon? Looks nice so far.

[Peachtree Discus]

lol. Ive got some lightweights.

this reminds me some movie (i forget the name) where a car is perfectly balanced but about to fall off a cliff with a couple of guys inside....then a pigeon comes and lands on the hood and ......

seriously hope you are and remain ok with this issue

[Bobby G]

Water weighs 8 lbs. per gallon so 110 gals. weighs 880 lbs. 5 men weighing 200 lbs each sitting on a couch weigh 1000 lbs. So I think you are okay.