CO2 injection...please explain...

[Roxanne]

Hi Groovers;)

Here I go, setting myself up for the kill...why do some of you guys use CO2 injection(whatever)? I know you must have reasons obviously, but is it worth it if it could kill your discus? It seems a bit russian roullette-ish to me?

Go on, give it to me baby(s):D

Rox

[scolley]

OK. I'll give it a shot...

CO2 is a macro nutrient for plants. Light intensity controls how fast a plant tries to grow, and it does not take much light for plants to strip naturally occurring CO2 out of the water faster than the CO2 can "soak" back into the water from the air at the water's surface. At that point, you need CO2 added to your water, typically along with additional nutrients, to allow the plants to grow as quickly as they are trying to. Not providing all the nutrients they need - including plenty of CO2 - will lead to excess algae growth. So at certain light levels you have two choices... lower the light, or add CO2. Injection is not the only way BTW, there are liquid forms like Seachem Excel, and a few other somewhat wacky methods.

This could easily lead to the question "Why don't you just turn down the lights?"

Lot's of reasons potentially. In my case, I want plants in my discus tank. But I don't want a lot of algae. And algae growth is triggered by ammonia in the water. But plants LOVE ammonia (or the Nitrogen in it) as a nutrient. So I want plants to be growing pretty briskly, so that they are sucking up the ammonia rapidly, and thus keeping the algae at bay. But to keep them growing quickly, I've got to give them a good bit of light. And CO2.

It has been recently stated here at simply that your fish "cannot be happy" in a tank with CO2. That's malarkey. You can read about it here (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?p=483573#post483573), go to post 88 I think. But it IS indeed true that you can kill your fish. I've nearly done it myself, as you can read about here (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=64959).

Using CO2 is risky. Yes indeed. But the risk is manageable. On plant forums you'll find thousands and thousands of people that inject CO2 with nary an incident. And you'll find a good number of people that wind up killing everything in their tank. But the vast majority do not. I don't know what the ratio is, but I'm willing to posit that most people have a small incident or two in the learning process, and then never repeat them, much less have a tank killing episode.

So what's my excuse? In my particular case, I'm kind of pushing the envelope on tank automation. And that adds complexity, and complexity brings additional risk. So the fact that I'm experienced with CO2 - yet still had an incident - should be looked at more as a result of my unusual automation, rather than the natural outcome of CO2 injection. Most people do it with nary a problem. And if that is difficult to believe, go check a plant forum. You can't argue with the success of thousands and thousands of people all over the world.

Hope that helps. ;)

[Roxanne]

Hey Steve

That's y I didn't find it, it was under planted tanks thingy and I don't bother with plants so I don't go to that section..:p

I read those links,thanks;)....ok so if I have this right...it's for planted tanks cos they suck too much nitrate out of the water....

I think the reason I don't bother with plants (I got fakes) is cos I knew about the nitrate thing, BUT it seems to me that alot of the time discus aren't doing so well, there's plants or tankmates involved....please don't attack...it's only an opinion because I have kept other kinds of fish...although, let me add, there is nothing quite as beautiful as a nicely planted tank with lots of species to look at...

I'm sure these types of additional "automations" as you call them allow you to bring about the balance you require to your tank, so I can see why you would use it...and as you said, human error is usually involved, maybe I just don't want to push my luck!!


Thanks for making that so easy to understand Steve...BTW did those fish of yours pull through in the long term??

Roxanne:)

[TankWatcher]

Hi Roxy, I guess it's just a matter of opinion. You're either into live plants, or your not. Not all live plants need C02 either, but most will do better with it & some just won't do well without it at all.

Before I got into discus, I was into planted tanks & I can't imagine having a display tank that isn't planted. Even my African tank is planted. I've been combining plants, C02 & discus for a couple of years now. Discus are now my main focus & I care for their well being dearly. But even so, IMO, there is nothing more beautiful than a planted discus tank. I have also seen some beautiful bio type tanks without plants too, but it just not where my preference lies. That's not to say I may not change my mind one day & try one.

Many pple use injected C02 safely & without incident. Things can happen, but I could get run over crossing the road too.

Planted tanks are not the best for juvis, but adults do just fine in them.

[scolley]

Planted tanks are not the best for juvis, but adults do just fine in them.
I think Robyn summed it up nicely there. Many will argue it's not natural - apparently true - though it is lovely, and adults do just fine.

My fish recovered VERY quickly from their incident (thanks for asking). :) Here's a link where you can see them (toward the end of the thread) after the overdose. But they recovered UNBELIEVABLY fast. One pair spawned either the next day (or possibly the day after that), and then a few days after that another pair spawned, this time getting the clutch of 75-100 fry all the way to free-swimmers.

After that the free-swimmers demonstrated the other downside of planted tanks... really bad places to raise fry. They are too attracted to the dark plants, and while they may attach to the parents (they did) eventually, one-by-one, they disengage from a parent and wiggle into the plants, never to be seen again.

But hey, that's what God made breeder tanks for. Right? ;)

[Roxanne]

....
My fish recovered VERY quickly from their incident (thanks for asking). :) Here's a link where you can see them...

After that the free-swimmers ...........disengage from a parent and wiggle into the plants, never to be seen again.

But hey, that's what God made breeder tanks for. Right? ;)

Glad to hear they are fine in the long term, I think I'd need psychotherapy if I saw that myself or at least someone to resuscitate ME!!........
....never to be seen, where did they go??
Do they die from being away from the parent?

And yes to the last....and all due respect but it would have been helpful if He made creation a little easier to imitate though.....;)

Thanks for taking the time Scolley.....:)

And thanks too Robyn...:)