Discus beginner :)

[Graemevw]

The wife suggested getting her an aquarium for christmas.
I figured it would be nice. Im 31 now and have been keeping fish, mainly tropicals, since i was about 12. Not had a tank for a few years though.

Last tank was a 4' planted tank, my first successful heavily planted tank.

Anyhow, we went looking around, see what she fancied keeping. Usual story, everything she likes is too big, or quite specialized.

She loved the discus though and ive always fancied keeping some too so the decision was made.

Just picked up a 200l tank, as big as we can fit in our flat.

Im still reading and learning about discus but the plan at the moment is to get maybe 6 juveniles, not too small, grow them up a bit then sell 2 on, keeping 4.

Tanks not set up yet though so we still need to cycle and will add some tankmates first. Long way to go untill any discus arrive :)

Thought i'd say Hi, im in sheffield, UK.

No doubt ill have questions along the way.

Tank will have a few easy plants, nothing too hard to keep, probably with a sand base.

I guess that gives me my first question then, what plants would you recomend for a discus tank?

[Eddie]

Hi there Graemevw, and welcome to best discus site in the world. Lots of great info on here and lots of great people.

I couldn't tell you were in the UK, you only used the word fancy twice the same conversation and the flat didn't open it wide up either :D. How come you have the states as your location in your profile?

Here we go,

A 200L tank will easily fit juvenile discus. If you plan on getting young juvenile fish to grow them out, I'd do it in a bare tank. A bare tank is a bazillion times easier to clean, since you'll need to feed 6-8 times a day. Your water quality will be easier to maintain, IME. If you grow them out to about 5", they'll do fine in a planted tank with sand and you won't have to mind to the constant water changes as much because the fish won't need to be fed as much, maybe twice a day.

For plants, I can't help you with that. I only have anubias in my tank and they thrive super easy, like weeds.

Other than that, hope somebody else can give you better suggestions on plants.

Eddie

[Hattawi]

Hi Graemevw and welcome. I think what you will hear from many keepers on this forum is to keep tha tank bare bottom, no gravel and no plants. You will have better results to the maximum growth size the fish will acheive.

I made a mistake that I sat up my tank with gravel and plants, got the discus and then I joined this forum only to find out that the results for growing out juveniles are better with no gravel and plants. I am trying my best currently to keep 50% water changes every day and feed them at least 3 times a day. I siphon debris and waste from the floor everyday and this take a lot of my time. I also removed the carbon from the external filter and decided not to install the UV sterilizer that I got earlier. Read out other posts and you will see for yourself.

[Eddie]

The wife suggested getting her an aquarium for christmas.

I almost forgot, WHY CAN'T MY WIFE SUGGEST THESE TYPES OF GIFTS!!!

You are a lucky man ;)

Eddie

[Graemevw]

Ill go alter my profile :)

Im not sure the wife will go with a bare bottom tank. I quite like them, ive kept fancy goldfish on bare bottom tanks and i think its got a nice look of its own.

We'll see. If we decide to get juveniles then ill try and talk her into a bare tank, if not, ill tell her we need to get our discus at 4-5" in size.

Im not planning on a heavily planted tank. I want her to look after it as much as possible, after all, it is 'her tank' and i dont think she's ready for the maintenace levels required by discus AND lots of plants.


Maybe a thin layer of fine gravel, one largish piece of wood, a couple of small rocks and just a few hardy plants for some green-ness would be best.

My last planeted tank was quite alot of work. No CO2, just lights and some fretilizer, but that needed maybe 2 hours a day, more at the weekends, to keep it looking nice.

She knows all about comitment, she used to have a horse, so i think she'll be ok looking after the tank.

Hopefully ill have the tank out the car and indoors tonight, ill see what filter media it came with. It has a fluval external filter (205 i think). What media would be best? Ive heard carbon isnt ideal for discus for some reason.

[Eddie]

We'll see. If we decide to get juveniles then ill try and talk her into a bare tank, if not, ill tell her we need to get our discus at 4-5" in size.

Getting them large will be less maintenance as far as WCs and feedings.


Maybe a thin layer of fine gravel, one largish piece of wood, a couple of small rocks and just a few hardy plants for some green-ness would be best.

Anubias are perfect for that set-up, don't even have powerful lighting on my tank or CO2


What media would be best? Ive heard carbon isnt ideal for discus for some reason.

Carbon definitely has it's place...not in a discus tank....I am only kidding. I just want to see a million posts on why carbon is not bad for discus. I personally don't use it. I use any substrate like eheim substrate pro along with a basic sponge material. Don't have experience with a fluval but I am sure you can configure it to your needs.

HTH
Eddie

[Graemevw]

Thanks.

Il have a talk with her tonight and see if she's up for a bare tank, if not, ill keep it as basic as i can get away with.

[Graemevw]

Ive a couple of questions regarding discus types.

Me n the wife have different favourites, no problem, we'll get some of each.

But, do discus know there different? Is there any reason why you cant have say 5 discus, all different colour types?

Silly question maybe, i cant think why they would care.
We dont plan on breeding!

Also, can anyone recomend any good sites that list different colour types etc? Ive found a few sites, but some seem to disagree and none seem complete.

I know its a contraversial subject;)

I saw one in a local shop, not particularly great quality, but nice colouring. I cant find any if reference pics that look the same though.

Im going to stay clear of wilds, but can you get tank bred, wild coloured, discus as some of them are lovely!

[Eddie]

Juvies are alot of work. It's not something that you have to do in my opinion but more of something that you'll want to do. You always read about how somebody's fish are stunted or never grew to be like the ones they read about or saw in the store (some LFS discus look awful). You really need to dedicate yourself to the wellbeing of these amazing fish and they will give you back all that you put into them with their beauty and personality.

You mentioned raising 6 and giving 2 away, the 2 you give away will be the ones that aren't growing as fast as the others or showing as much color. No matter what, they will be hard to give away if you are simply a hobbyist. I know I would have a hard time giving away 2 of my discus.


Eddie

[Hattawi]

Be careful from buying from pet shops. Make sure you are familiar with the term "stunted discus" and pay particular attention to the size of the discus eyes in relation to the rest of the body. Read the Sticky "What not to buy"

[Graemevw]

I have done :)

I wont be buying any fish from our LFS as none of them are very good.

Im aware of a few suppliers in england and theres a specialist about an hour away we'll visit in the new year.

Maybe we wont get juveniles then, might be a step too far.

That raises another question then, what size should we buy?

Just been chatting with Lou (the wife) and i think we'll go with a decorated tank, but quite simple so its easy to clean properly.

Well get it cycled, add some corry's and some tetras and let the whole tank mature for a while.

In our 200l tank, with just a small shoal of tetras and a few cory's, would 5 discus be ok? I think that may be pushing it though, would 4 be a nice group?

I also understand that if a pair form they need to be housed seperate?

We havent really got teh sapce for that, so is it possible to make sure we get 4 females, or is it unlikely a pair will form anyway?

[Eddie]

In our 200l tank, with just a small shoal of tetras and a few cory's, would 5 discus be ok? I think that may be pushing it though, would 4 be a nice group?

5 will be fine with the tank mates. You could definitely have a nice set-up with sand, driftwood and low-light plants. I would get the discus at at least 4inches. JMO


I also understand that if a pair form they need to be housed seperate?

Not always but if you plan on raising the fry, yes.


We havent really got teh sapce for that, so is it possible to make sure we get 4 females, or is it unlikely a pair will form anyway?

There is no way to make sure you only get 4 females. ;)


But, do discus know there different? Is there any reason why you cant have say 5 discus, all different colour types?

And yes you can get 5 discus, all different colors. Some breeders have tank raised wilds so you can get them to if avail.


Eddie

[Graemevw]

Superb :)

Tank is in one piece, just needs water etc but wont do that today.

Ill update this thread with pics along the way.

[Eddie]

Wicked! Bet you are tempted to fill it! Definitely post pics when you can.


Eddie

[Graemevw]

Tempted, very.

Ill get me spirit level out tomorrow and check its level first. Then fill it and see if the floor can take the weight.

If not, its floorboards up and build a solid base.

Just been trying to work out the logistics of water changes.

Just realised we have NO-WHERE to store 70-100l of water overnight to carry out the water changes!

This will need some thought.

I did think about using the bath but soap issues stop that.

[Eddie]

I did think about using the bath but soap issues stop that.

yeah...............probably not a good idea.

Do you have a good water test kit? Check your water parameters straight from tap and then store a bucket of water aerated with an airstone over a few nights and see if there is any major difference in PH. If not, you won't need to worry about it. Otherwise, rubbermaid containers work well. You'll need to get a heater and way to get the water to the tank.

[Graemevw]

No kits yet, but they will be bought before asap. First thing ill be doing is testing our tap water.

When i gave my old planted tank away i gave all my fish keeping stuff away with it. Sort of regret that now, but never mind.

Whether i need to age the water first doesnt really matter, i still need to get it up to temp so still need to store the water. If i can store it for a couple of hours, i can store it for a day.

I think we'll get one of the caravan type water barrels. Biggest is 50l though so looks like we'll be doing very regular 25% changes rather than once a week 50% changes.

Unless i can get a barrel with a lid, i could store it outside when not in use then, just bring it in to fill/warm it.

[Eddie]

Unless i can get a barrel with a lid, i could store it outside when not in use then, just bring it in to fill/warm it.

It gets pretty cold over there in the UK.


Whether i need to age the water first doesnt really matter, i still need to get it up to temp so still need to store the water. If i can store it for a couple of hours, i can store it for a day.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot, you have 2 seperate faucets, one for cold and one for hot. Surely there is a contraption that can combine the 2.

[mikel]

You know, you can keep plants and still have a bare bottom to grow out the juvies. Simply pot the plants in terra cotta pots....I did this to grow out my first batch of young discus, and it worked very well, until I got sick of the amazons and toss them all out along with the pots. Now it's just discus in a barebottom tank....mike

[Graemevw]

I didnt think you could use water out of the 'hot tap' due to possible disolved metal contamination?

Is it ok to match water temp using water from a kettle?

[Eddie]

I didnt think you could use water out of the 'hot tap' due to possible disolved metal contamination?

Not sure about all that, since I just adjust my temp prior to filling and then fill. Definitely is different from one location to the next. Don't have any experience with using a kettle :o. Seems like it could be a pain.

[Graemevw]

Maybe.

If i can use the hot tap to mix the water to the right temp, and if i dont need to store it, then all is well.

Another thought is, i could build a 60l tank to fit in the bottom of the cabinet, with a couple of pipes, a pump and a heater i could build a self contained system.

[Eddie]

If i can use the hot tap to mix the water to the right temp, and if i dont need to store it, then all is well.

Another thought is, i could build a 60l tank to fit in the bottom of the cabinet, with a couple of pipes, a pump and a heater i could build a self contained system.

Oh yeah...now your talking. Definitely be a nice little set-up ;)

[Graemevw]

Keep thinking if i could make it double as a sump too, either as a filter, or purely for extra volume.

Ill give it some thought.

Been reading about the 'hot water' thing.

Water from the hot tap tends to contain copper, but this is due to the water sitting in a water tank. With a combi boiler its not a problem.

Also, adding boiled kettle water to cold water is also fine, just dont use 100% water thats been boiled.

Ill get me test kits and see how our water is, ill give the 'sump' thing some more thought too.

[Graemevw]

Pitty our flat is a council flat (supplied by local authority), they dont take kindly to 'modifications'.

Thinking about the storage tank idea, it wouldnt be hard to plumb it into the mains water. An extra pump from the tank direct to the drain and i could do water changes without any buckets. Wouldnt even need to lift the lid or get my hands wet.

[Eddie]

That would be great! Lots of ideas and lots to do. Good luck with everything.


Eddie

[Joshcat]

Just a thought, I myself like the substrate and planted look much better than bare bottom. My husband and I actually found a happy medium that makes the tank look better and is much easier to keep up with the water quality needed to keep discus, especially juveniles.

Our Qt tank has gravel and plants, and we found it quite a chore to siphon and do water changes daily while out discus were in Qt. When starting out we initially were going to have our discus in a planted tank. But decided differently after our experience when we QT them. What we did was keep the tank bare bottom, but added in a couple of pieces of driftwood, we tied Java fern on the driftwood which is a very hardy plant that in my opinion looks great and is low maintenance. We also bought some potted plants, so it's pretty much a biotope of sorts.

With substrate it's almost impossible to get up all the waste and food debris that gets trapped within. Being that discus require optimal water conditions, it can tedious trying to keep up the water conditions in a planted tank. I have found that having the bare bottom with the natural environment minus the substrate is beneficial in two ways. One, it is much more attractive than just a plain bare bottom tank. Two, it gives the fish a sense of security when they need to retreat, they have a place to hide when they are scared or upset. Not to mention you can see and clean all of the waste and food debris left because it is bare bottom.

Also in reference to water changes, as Eddie said, get a test kit and check your ph right from the tap. Then test it after it has sat for a day or so and see if it's stable. My husband and I also started out with aged and aerated water. Since then we have found being that we have a very stable ph, there is no need to keep aging barrels. We use water straight from the tap with Prime to take out and chlorine and chloramines it also will detoxify any ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. You just need to make sure you find the temperature that is the same as whats in your tank.

Our methods I'm sure are not the favorite of most Hobbyists, but they do work for us. Just some food for thought if you were looking for other options.

Cathy

[Roxanne]

Hi:)

What if you had two water storage containers, smaller sized, might sound silly, but if you are pressed for space, it might be easier than 1 big 1?

Just a thought...good luck....

...i told my husband the 360 litre I wanted weighed the same as a small car when filled....his eyes kind of glazed over as he looked at the hardwood floor...

Rox

[Graemevw]

Well, our tank is full of water. Ill pop out today and see if i can get some ammonia to cycle it.

Tested our water, its ph 7.4.
I havent got a hardness test kit yet though. How important are they?

Ill test our water every day while its cycling, that should tell me if our PH is stable or not.

[Graemevw]

Second day of having water, Ph is the same so i guess our water is stable.

Ive just cleaned, soaked and showered in boiling water a small piece of wood/root for the tank :)

The main section on the right is hollow so we'll put a plant in there and maybe tie some java fern to it.

A couple of small rocks on the floor in the middle and it should look nice while still being easy to clean.

When the discus are grown, or if we buy adults, ill aquascape it more.

Heres a pic, our cat loves it!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/GraemeVW/tank.jpg

[rickztahone]

that's a great looking piece of driftwood

[Graemevw]

Thanks. Was local, and not too expensive.

As the tank is going to be quite simple i though a BIG bit would work best.

It doesnt take up too much room either as it sits quite close to the back.

[DLock3d]

Love the driftwood piece.

[plecocicho]

Awesome wood. could easily imagine a school of wilds under there.

[Graemevw]

I think wilds may be a challenge too far for us right now;)

[Eddie]

wow, that is a super nice piece of wood. It will be nice to see the discus in there!

Merry Xmas
Eddie

[plecocicho]

Gramevw, how big is your tank? Wilds are not such a becelbub when you know how to handle them. Here is the recipe for their keeping: give them enough space (50 to 80-90 liters per one adult), clean water with low nitrates, large filter (either sump or internal compartment DIY filter with at least 10% volume of the tank volume/canister filter egheim 2080 or any other filter that has similar filter volume), quality food, water of ph 6 brings better colurs in wild discus, but you can have wild blue/brown discus at neutral ph and a discipline in tank cleaning and wcs.

[Graemevw]

Our tank is 200l, i think we'll stick with captive strains for now. Thanks for the advice though :)