Sand vs Rocks

[thebigone]

I have bought a 150 gallon tank and was thinking about putting sand in this one instead of rocks. I currently have a 125 gallon with a rock bottom. I was wanting to know to pros and cons of sand vs rocks for the bottom gravel. Also I have never used a under gravel filter before and one came with the tank, if you have any advise on this as well it will be greatly appreciated. I will have 2 aqua clear 110s on the 150 gallon. I will be taken the 125 down and moving my fish. Thanks for any input.

[Eddie]

Don't use the UG filter! Not recommended and I would advise to stay away from them. They do a great job but not in a Discus tank. They trap alot of crap! The pros about gravel is it is easier to clean without getting any sucked up. Sand gets sucked up very easy. I do like using silica sand, it is a bit larger particle than regular sand. What else will you be having in the tank? What is the tank for? Growout or for fully grown discus? Planted or no plants. Lots of things to consider when deciding on sand or gravel.


Eddie

[thebigone]

I plan on putting in some driftwood, haven't decided if I am going to do any plants yet. I just want to keep it simple. More then likely right now I am thinking of no plants. I was thinking of the sand because it might would brighten the colors of my discus up. The discus that will be going in the the smallest is 3" and they go up to 5-5 1/2". They all do great now but wanted something so I might could add a few more too. I have 4 smaller pieces of driftwood that I am going to put in there with maybe one bigger piece. May add a few more pieces(maybe 1 or 2 medium pieces) but I want this tank more for enjoying the fish and their colors. My tank now is in my office and the new tank will be in my living room. I will also do a lighter background then what I have now. What else would you suggest doing as far as helping with color and environment?

Thanks!

[Eddie]

Sounds good then, sand, some driftwood and maybe add some easy growing plants later. A light background will bring out their colors depending on the strains. The sand should do the trick with showing of their colors. The 2 HOBs do a pretty good job but a tank that size might need a bit more. I don't have any experience in filtration in a tank that big, maybe a good canister filter to put it all together. :o


Eddie

[TankWatcher]

I have silica pool filter sand & find it much easier to keep clean than gravel.

[trebor69]

sand looks very nice in a tank

only word of caution....if you're going to use the AC 110s make sure the intakes are several inches above the bottom

as the fish search for food....or do their little dominance battles they tend to stir up the sand and you don't want your filters sucking it up

I wouldn't use the UG filter...and I would not put the sand too thick unless you will be diligent about stirring it up occasionally while doing water changes

[thebigone]

Eddie,Robyn,trebor69,

Thanks for your input so far. I am still learning a lot about discus and have a lot more to learn I'm sure and everything is helping me get there to become a better and more knowledgeable discus keeper. Thanks for your input! It is really appreciated.

What would you consider too thick? I was thinking of about 1 1/2" - 2". Would that be to thick? I was thinking about having the filters about half way down in the tank, do you think that would be good enough? Also what is the max number of discus you think I could put in the tank? With doing about 20% WC every other day with 35-40% every other week? I was thinking about 14?!:confused: What are some thoughts on that?

[roadracr]

Eddie,Robyn,trebor69,

Thanks for your input so far. I am still learning a lot about discus and have a lot more to learn I'm sure and everything is helping me get there to become a better and more knowledgeable discus keeper. Thanks for your input! It is really appreciated.

What would you consider too thick? I was thinking of about 1 1/2" - 2". Would that be to thick? I was thinking about having the filters about half way down in the tank, do you think that would be good enough? Also what is the max number of discus you think I could put in the tank? With doing about 20% WC every other day with 35-40% every other week? I was thinking about 14?!:confused: What are some thoughts on that?

Josh,

I just set up a 150G discus tank and went along the same lines you are considering. My setup uses silica sand (from a pool supply store @ $8.00 for 50 lbs), a light blue painted background, several pieces of driftwood, a few large rocks, and a couple plastic plants.

After nearly 8 weeks of fishless cycling, I started with ten 3+ inch discus from Discus Hans. The fish are truly excellent. I highly recommend.

Anyway, I like the sand substrate. I have an extended tube on my python (actually it's an Aqueon water changer which I modified by adding the intake tube from a Marineland Siphon - I'll provide details if you want). I spend the first 15 minutes of a W/C vacuuming the substrate and I do NOT suck up any sand. It's very easy. If you submerge the intake into the sand, it will start going up the tube, but once you lift the end out of the tube, the sand falls back to the bottom. I think the combination of the larger grain silica sand, plus the fairly large diameter of the vacuum intake make all the difference. The detritus all goes up the tube with no problem.

I used a total of 100 lbs of sand for my tank (bottom dimensions are 18" x 72") and that seems fine.

Anyway, it sounds a lot like what you are describing. All I can say is that I'm really happy with this type of setup so far. Good luck.

Roadracr

[thebigone]

roadrcr,

My tank is 48" x 24" x 30"tall. How much did it cover on your bottom with 100lbs.? PM me with the details and what you had to do for your vacum. Thanks a lot. I already have 11 discus going into the tank.


What is the most that anybody thinks that I can put in this tank?

Thanks in every way!

[rickztahone]

IMO i would just keep the 11 you have now. i wouldnt add more discus unless you plan on getting more filtration. 11 discus is already a heavy load

[Darrell Ward]

Gravel, rocks, whatever, will trap unbelievable amounts of crap. You can vac and vac, and still pick up debris from it. Sand will stay much cleaner, as debris tend to sit on top of it, making removal much, much easier. I haven't used gravel in display tanks in years because of this, only pool filter sand. Use sand, trash the UG filter, and get a large canister. Use the ACs with the canister until the new filter cycles. It will take about 2 or 3 weeks, then you can remove the ACs. You will thank us later. Also, don't worry about sand creating "dangerous pockets of gas". Unless you get crazy and have a 4" to 6" layer of sand on the bottom, it ain't going to happen. I been using 1" to 2" layers of sand for years, and I've never had this problem, and I NEVER stir sand, except what I disturb while cleaning crap off the bottom. If you don't believe it, research it. The saltwater guys use a DEEP layer of sand for denitrification, not a shallow one. A shallow sand bed is nothing to worry about.

[thebigone]

Thanks Darrell! What size canister would you recommend for a 150 gallon with 2 AC 110s ? Thanks to everyone for the advice so far it is greatly appreciated!

rickztahone,

What else would I need if I were to add a few more discus? Could you explain only why stay with the 11? Thanks.

[Darrell Ward]

I would get one that is rated for a larger tank than what I had. Personally, I think it would be hard to beat a Eheim 2260. A no nonsense filter that doesn't have all the cute bells and whistles that always break over time. The cool thing about it is that it will hold a ton of media, 18 liters, only uses 50 watts, and has a 2 year warranty. Very cool.

[TankWatcher]

My tank is 138G & it is filtered by 2 Eheim Pro 11 2028's. I don't think I have enough water circulation, so I intend adding a pump to help out soon.

The rule of thumb is 1 discus per 10G. You have to take into account the substrate, tank decor & even the discus themselves. They all deduct a bit from the water volume.

If you are a beginner, it might be better to under stock, rather than stock to the maximum. But if you are up for good filtration & minimum of 2 weekly water changes then you could possibly go to the max. You may give yourself a larger margin for error if you under stock.

Make sure your filters are cycled, before you add the 11 discus.

[rickztahone]

Thanks Darrell! What size canister would you recommend for a 150 gallon with 2 AC 110s ? Thanks to everyone for the advice so far it is greatly appreciated!

rickztahone,

What else would I need if I were to add a few more discus? Could you explain only why stay with the 11? Thanks.
i suggested to just stay with the 11 mainly do to the filtration factor. i would get a good cansiter filter like other members suggested. top of the line would be the eheim but it can get quite expensive. i got a rena XP3 for 130 shipped from 4petsdirect.com. it is rated for up to a 175g tank and its great, easy to use and setup is easy. maintinence is also easy. these are all features you should be looking for in a canister filter. the great thing about the XP3 is that is stays primed after the first time. it is really quite as well. hope this helps. its always better to understock and later get more discus

[trebor69]

if were me I would stay less than 2"

2" is getting alittle on the thick side. The problem is the sand can compact and/or create pockets of anaerobic(low oxygen) nastiness. That wouldn't be a problem though if you make sure to stir the sand a little while doing water changes like someone mentioned above.

one other thing with the sand

you should rinse it well before you put it in

I rinse mine very vigorously with a garden hose. I fill a 5 gallon bucket about 1/3 full of sand and swish/swirl/mix it around while letting water overflow the bucket. Do this until the water runs almost clear. You will lose some sand over the top but thats ok because its mostly the really tiny sand particles.

IMO if you're not losing a small amount sand over the top then you're not being aggressive enough with the hose

I've never done a tank as large as a 150 though....it could take awhile/a few buckets haha. You might be better served with a larger container.

[Eyecandy]

Hi there.
I would also go with the sand.. I use pool filter sand that you can get at Ace hardware etc.. it's cheap, looks good, the fish love it and it's easy to clean. I also think that it along with a lighter color background makes the discus colors brighter..Also On my 4x2x2 120 gallon I use 2 xp3's and use them with the spray bars.. That way there is always plenty of filtration but not much turbulence. Just make sure the intake tube is about 3 inches above the sandbed.
I would just stay with the 11. That's plenty enough number for them to be happy and still give them room in the tank.. Afterall the footprint is only 4 feet and once they start to pair up the pair may just push everyone else to the other side of the tank. At least mine did. I had 2 pairs out of the 8 discus and each pair took a filter intake tube to spawn on and the other discus only were left with the middle of the tank. It was funny to see but the fish needed every inch of space they had...
Good luck with whatever you do. Sue

[rickztahone]

Hi there.
I would also go with the sand.. I use pool filter sand that you can get at Ace hardware etc.. it's cheap, looks good, the fish love it and it's easy to clean. I also think that it along with a lighter color background makes the discus colors brighter..Also On my 4x2x2 120 gallon I use 2 xp3's and use them with the spray bars.. That way there is always plenty of filtration but not much turbulence. Just make sure the intake tube is about 3 inches above the sandbed.
I would just stay with the 11. That's plenty enough number for them to be happy and still give them room in the tank.. Afterall the footprint is only 4 feet and once they start to pair up the pair may just push everyone else to the other side of the tank. At least mine did. I had 2 pairs out of the 8 discus and each pair took a filter intake tube to spawn on and the other discus only were left with the middle of the tank. It was funny to see but the fish needed every inch of space they had...
Good luck with whatever you do. Sue

agreed about it only being a 4 footer. for some reason i thought it was a traditional 6 ft tank. 11 should do you plenty IMO

[thebigone]

Thanks for the input everyone! It is really appreciated! Only having 11 in the tank would it be better to have an even number like 12 or is having an odd number good? I just bought the 11th one last week because my wife liked it and if she likes a fish we are going to get it. It was a blue snake skin. Let me know what you think about the odd or even number.

[Darrell Ward]

No, I would not add any more. If you keep the water clean, you should be alright until they mature enough to start pairing off. Then you may have problems with excessive fighting unless you remove some. Then expect torn fins, scrapes, missing scales, signs of stress, etc. At this point, it will start getting mighty crowded in a 4 foot tank, and you would want to move some anyway. :D

[thebigone]

With a sand gravel, would a AC110 and a Fluval FX5 be good enough for a 150 gallon? and would you go close to the bottom or just go half way down the tank because of the sand? That for you input.

[Eddie]

I'd just run the filter tubes half way down. I'd probably throw another AC on there but thats just me. Is the sand gravel pool filter sand?


Eddie

[roadracr]

With a sand gravel, would a AC110 and a Fluval FX5 be good enough for a 150 gallon? and would you go close to the bottom or just go half way down the tank because of the sand? That for you input.

Josh,

I sent you a PM a couple days ago - hope you got it. With regard to the intake tubes, I use pool filter sand (silica sand) and would not hesitate to go almost to the very bottom. There is very little sand kicked up during vacuuming, maintenance, etc.. Also, putting pre-filters on your intakes will eliminate any final worries you may have about sucking up sand into your filters.

Roadracr

[thebigone]

Yes, I went and bought pool filter sand yesterday. I got 100lbs. of it. I think it was $10 a bag, not too bad. Now, I can't wait to start setting it up! roadracr, Yes I got your PM and thanks! I will keep you all updated as I start to put this tank together and set it up. Thank for everything from everyone!

[Eddie]

Yes, I went and bought pool filter sand yesterday. I got 100lbs. of it. I think it was $10 a bag, not too bad. Now, I can't wait to start setting it up! roadracr, Yes I got your PM and thanks! I will keep you all updated as I start to put this tank together and set it up. Thank for everything from everyone!

Cool, I love the sand in my tank. The only thing that I messed up on was I rinsed the entire bag and only used less than half. So now I have all this wet sand sitting around :(

Eddie

[cyberhog05]

I just set up my 110 tonight. I used sand from my local masonry supply store. It is 100% silica sand and I got the biggest grain size they had(they had 3 different sizes). The Bag said #16 Silica sand. It is the best sand I have ever purchased and it was 6.50 per 100lb bag. It is large enough that when you rinse it there is no cloudiness what so ever. I rinsed one bucket and skipped that step and dumped the rest in my tank, filled it with water and there is zero sediment in the water. I just wanted to share my experience and maybe somebody will find this nice sand I found. It is called "Lane Mountain company" Home depot and lowes have it but not the larger grain. You will have to go to a masonry shop for the bigger stuff or pool supply.