worried new discus owner

[tocofish]

I bought 1 discus just over a week ago and 3 4 days ago. Two of the 3 that i bought 4 days ago are very very dark in colour. Which has really been worrying me. Heres one of the fish in question:
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e94/zippy161/SP_A0655.jpg

sorry the picture isnt great. Ammonia=0, nitrite=0, nitrate=0.5 temp 84-86
Ive noticed them flicking on plants :( Could a parasite be causing them stress leading to the dark colour? what should i treat them with?

Also the fish that i bought over a week ago now ive looked at the what to buy/ what not to buy threads seems stunted? Anything i can do to help him?

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e94/zippy161/SP_A0667.jpg

[Eddie]

Euthanize, seriously. If you have to deal with medicating at that size, it's not worth it. It will be hard to crack what is wrong with them and hit them with the right meds. I see your tank is planted too. You'll have to separate them but then again, the whole tank could be affected. The discus look super stunted too so I just don't think its worth it, sorry.

The fish in the first picture looks BAD but not as stunted as the fish in the second picture.

I'd hit them with a metro/prazi mix in high heat. API General Cure is good and Tank Buddies Parasite Clear by Jungle is another.

Eddie

[William Palumbo]

Hi like Eddie said...the fish are culls and is unfortunate people and shops sell fish like that. IMO is not worth the trouble or $$$ to medicate...let alone heat...feed...for any length of time. Stick around this site and you will quickly learn what a good healthy Discus should look like...and plenty of sponsors on here to get them from...Bill

[Hattawi]

That 2nd fish is way too stunted. I agree with Eddie's suggestions.

Hit them with metro/prazi mix for the sake of the other fish aswell (if you have non discus fish in the tank).

[Graham]

Hi toco, welcome to the board ...whether your fish are good or bad really isn't the issue here.:bandana:

At this point any other fish in the tank has been expoused to whatever they might be carrying. This is why all fish, from any source, discus breeders included should be quarantined for several weeks before introducing them into the main tank.

The flicking on plants that you're seeing is called flashing. A fish does it when they are being irritated by something be that water quality or a parasite. If you want to use them as a learning experience and spend a few dollars, then start with a general shot gun type med such as Quick Cure or another brand that has formalin and malachite green in it. Follow the bottle instructions exactly with 40% water chnages between doses.


This should clear out most parasites. Then at that point make a decision as to whether to use more direct specific meds

Graham

[bs6749]

I agree that these fish should be culled or maybe returned to store where you got them from for a refund. They are definitely not worth your time because they are going to cause you more trouble than what they are worth. You can't start out with poor and diseased stock and expect them to ever be healthy.

I was thinking along the lines of Graham that you could benefit from treating the fish and gaining experience. On the flip side of that is the reality that these fish won't ever be healthy, let alone show quality specimens. You might get only bad experiences and frustration from attempting to medicate them and that may cause you to think about purchasing discus again. Do yourself a huge favor and either return them or cull them. These fish are too far gone and not worth trying to save IMO. A quick way to do it is to put a larger container of water into the freezer until it's about 32 degrees. Then net out the fish and put them in there. After you do that you can either cut off their heads or use something to pierce a hole in thier heads to ensure that they are dead. I'd try to freeze them and take them back to the LFS where you got them from and say they both were dead this morning. Don't put a hole in their heads though.

[tocofish]

Well i cant afford to cull these and buy new. Im going to stick with them and hopefully gain some experience and learn a few things.

I can see the problems with the second fish - thin small body, large eye.. but cant see whats wrong with the first except colouration? The picture is at a strange angle but was the clearest picture. This is the same fish at different angles. Really not great pictures though sorry. Need to buy a decent camera.
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e94/zippy161/SP_A0659.jpghttp://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e94/zippy161/SP_A0676.jpg

Would just like an explanation of whats wrong with it so i can learn for future discus shopping if i get more in the future. Hopefully of better quality of course.

[bs6749]

The fish is severly stunted. I'm guessing it's 2.5" TL at most and it should be 3.5" easily. It has poor finnage and exhibits the common triangular shape seen in stunted fish. It should be basketball shaped, not football shaped. It has poor coloration and it is stressed or diseased as can be seen by how dark it is. It is definitely sick. I'm curious how much you spent on them. Could you please send me a PM and let me know?

For future reference, you should purchase 3" or larger fish. Fish that are any smaller than that are going to require a LOT more attention and yes half an inch does make that much of a difference in their care! They should be fed at least 4 times per day IMO when they are still under 3 inches, which is when you can cut back on feedings.

[tocofish]

The dark coloured fish is between 3.5-4 inches. They are all fed on beef heart, tetra min or blood worm 3-4 times a day which they happily gobble up

[tocofish]

i cant yet send pm's as i dont have a high enough post count.

Thanks for explaining where its problems are though :)

[bs6749]

Okay, I'm sorry. I looked at the bottom pic in your first post. Still, the same applies! The fish is stunted and has poor/triangular shape.

[bs6749]

Also, if it's stunted it's usually due to genetic factors and won't grow well no matter what or how much you feed it. IMHO you are wasting your money feeding these and that money would be much better spent on new specimens. That's why I asked you to send me a PM with how much you paid for these. I'm hoping that you find that newer and healthier fish will be much less than what you paid. Where are you located? Maybe one of the sponsors is close to you!

[tocofish]

Im from the midlands in england.

[aquadiva]

Well, maybe these Discus won't reach their potential size or have the correct shape, but who say's they cannot be healthy once treated with the right meds and follow up care? ;) I would take Graham's suggestion on the meds and remember to also do those daily water changes inbetween doses, very important!:fish: Once the full dose has been given for the noted duration on the medicine packet, continue with the water changes and see how the Discus look/act. If you continue to see dark color and/or white feces, crank the heat up to 90 and dose with metronidazole following the directions on that package and also do the daily water changes before each dose of that. Once you are finished with the metro, continue the water changes and keep that heat up for another 5-7 days. This should hopefully get them on the road to good health.:thumbsup: Then you can gradually bring the heat back down to 84-86. The fact that they are all eating hardily is a good thing. :angel: Good luck with these fish and in the future, I would look to the Sponsors on this group to purchase Discus from as you will get much better specimens! Keep us posted on how things go. You will find a wealth of information here! :book:

Anna :sun:

[Eddie]

whether your fish are good or bad really isn't the issue here

I do agree with Graham on that not being the issue but I am only speaking from experience, its alot work trying revitalize discus that size.


Im going to stick with them and hopefully gain some experience and learn a few things.

If you are doing it for experience, thats great, it's all a learning experience. If the fish come around 100% then I hope the best for you but the fish won't develop into something impossible. Starting out with quality discus is the first step in keeping discus, otherwise you are just keeping crazy colored goldfish.


You say you are locate in the midlands, I know there are some shops around the midland area. Where are you exactly, I used to live in Ely and always spent time in Cambridge/London. I know it's a 1 hour train ride to Kings Cross and there are some really nice shops in Essex. You gotta do your research my friend. Do what you have to do with these fish but start with some quality discus and you will experience a whole other world of discus keeping.

Eddie

[White Worm]

I would have to say that you could treat them and possibly have healthy fish at some point but you will eventually be discouraged when you spend the money and time on fish like this. Once you do your research and see what you actually have and what you could have for less money, you will not be satisfied. They could be practice fish but you would be better off saving the medication money and getting yourself some quality discus to start with. Stunted fish means they were treated poorly while they were growing (environment). Runts or deformities are formed from parent genetics. These are most likely victims of poor treatment or both. If you wish to treat, noone better with advice than G. Once you have dealt with the external issues, I would use some Gel Tek PX in food or directly given to the fish by syringe. Since they are eating, soak their food in it for 20 minutes and then feed.

[tocofish]

I know there are some shops around the midland area. Where are you exactly stoke on trent in the west midlands

Going to start treatment and see how things go. I dont mind if they are never anything amazing like the fish ive seen on this site. I just always wanted to keep discus because of the challenge :)