New WC Blues - Question

[TankWatcher]

I have 3 WC Blues in QT. Got 2 of them on New Year's Eve & the 3rd I picked up today (all from same source).

They did have a hard time in the transport into Aust & seem to be recovering from that. They are a lot lighter today. They eat well & poops look a healthy colour.

I notice though, that sometimes instead of resting completely vertically, they have sometimes have a very slight lean to the left or right. What might this mean? Is it a concern?

Thanks in advance guys.

[mikel]

Sounds like me after a long day's work...just want to lean on something and take a snoozer! If they eat, poop looks dark and solid, and use both gills and no flashing..and breathing rate is nice and constant...I would just let them acclimate with as little fuss as possible. They are tough fish...let them be themselves. Good luck! mike

[wgtaylor]

Sounds typical after being shipped. I have had some lay flat on their sides for a day and some like what you are describing just not completely vertical at times. It may be from sedatives in the shipping water. It normally wears off in a few days and they recover with no ill effects. Like Mikel said give them time, rest and good clean water. Wish you the best with them. Bill

[Reel North]

I just got 5 WC Blues on New Years eve. They were awesome in the tank where I got them, then turned BLACK as soon as they were caught!

2 lightened up as I was dripping them, and the other 3 never did until I put them into the tank after acclimating them. They lean over against the wood, plants or each other. They eat thoug, which I think is the most important thing, and show great colours as long as you peek around a corner at them

I think you are in good shape

[TankWatcher]

Thanks guys, for the reassurance. Apparently, these guys were beat up a bit by ammonia burning during the trip. LFS owner kept them in QT at his home for longer than usual, even after customs ok'd them for release on 24th Dec. He did this because he says they went almost completely black & he wouldn't bring them to LFS until at least partial recovery. He brought them to LFS late on 27th (only because of my daily phone calls to see when he would have them in store - I wanted 1st choice! I'm not really a nag, honest, he kept telling me "ring tomorrow & I'll let you know"). He told me not to come view them yet, as he thought I wouldn't like them as still dark. On 28th I went anyway (couldn't wait). He didn't want me to take them home that day & said 31st was 1st day I should consider taking them. They were still darkish & with ragged fins when I brought the 1st two home on 31st, but behaviour was good. They didn't act sick, just looked bad. (I know better than to buy sick fish).

So they have already had some time to settle from their international travel, so that there should be no sedative still in their system, but obviously not yet 100% happy. They have had a few moves since then (LFS QT, LFS display & now my QT).

They have lightened up a lot in my tank, although the 3rd (only went in my QT late yesterday) is a little darker than the 1st two, but I expect by tomorrow he will be as light as them. I think they should be from OK stock, as they came to Aus via Glasser Germany & I think they have a good reputation??

I feel better to know you guy's have experienced this "leaning" behaviour. Wilds are ridiculously priced in Sydney, so I do fuss a little over them (peek at them from around corners a lot :D). They continue to eat well (just not beef heart :mad:) & poops are still a great colour. I am giving them 50% wc a day for now, may slow it down to twice a week as they recover. After they have some more recovery time, I will give put them through routine worming, but will allow them to gather their strength in nice clean water for now.

Does this all sound OK. Sorry to be so long winded :embarassed:

[TankWatcher]

Here's an example of one of them doing the "lean"

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/TankWatcher/138G_523L_Discus%20Tank/000_0827.jpg

[Triadtropz]

thats normal for wild fish when you first put them under a light...when you turn the light off i bet they come right up..it will take time for them to get used to the overhead light.

[Reel North]

I would slow down the WC's right now to maybe every other day or every third day. If your filter is good in the QT tank, then you shouldnt have any ammonia etc issues. Let them just chill out, and I would look at maybe graduall increasing the amount of light they are under each day. I kept mine under just moons for 2 days, then actinic, now actinic & 6700K PC lights. On day 4, they are actually coming to the ront of the tank looking for bloodworms.

Those are really nice blues - congrats

[TankWatcher]

Thanks heaps for the replies :)

Those are really nice blues - congratsThanks. They are quite different to my other 2 WC Blues & I have wondered why.

This is just their QT tank and it is small (only 100L). It is newly set up, but the small eheim cannister filter had been cycling on my African tank for around 4-6 weeks. It's now been on this tank since 31st Dec.

Do you think this is good enough to drop the water changes down? As well as wc, I have also been vacuming out their poops several times a day.

Thinking of getting rid of my Africans & moving them to that tank, both as their QT (& likely final home), but that's still being considered.

They already come to the front of the tank looking for blood worms, so I take that as a good start.

[Eddie]

Hey Robyn, nice WC Blues. I wish you very good luck with them.

The whole leaning to the side thing, bet its the first time they've seen their reflection :) I am sure it disorients them. That's probably why when the lights go out, their isn't too much or any reflection.

Take care
Eddie

[plecocicho]

Those blues look at a first sight like wild green discus. Do they have any redish spots on their flanks and anal fins?

[illumnae]

I got the same impression when I saw this picture, I thought they were greens at first glance :( Glad I'm not the only one :)

[TankWatcher]

I thought that too, when I saw them in the store - but didn't want to suggest that myself here. Wanted to see what you guys thought? I asked LFS & he said he ordered blues & that as far as he knew, they were blues. But then, he also said the browns I bought are blues.

Works out well, as I wanted some greens. I had wanted Tefe Red spotted greens, but so far no luck sourcing them. Even so, I will be pleased if these do turn out to be WC Greens. I have 2 WC Blues that look very different.
Do they have any redish spots on their flanks and anal fins?Yes, some but not as many as I'd like to see. Mainly on the anal fins. The one in store that showed the best potential for red spots on the flank had 2 hard rays that must have been damaged at some point. They were shorter that the rays either side. I really wanted to pick him, but figured every time he extends his fins, the lack of symmetry would bug me.

What do you guys think? Would having the best colour outweigh imperfect hard rays. As I understand it, the hard rays will not grow back.

When they have settled in more I'll take better pictures and check in with everyone here again for opinions as to what they are.

[plecocicho]

Redish dots in anal fin are one of the species definition signs in green discus. So they probably are wild greens. You have to consider, that they will show their full potention only after a couple of months. Look for the thread, in which Zulu shows the gradual channging from a grey duckling to white swan. Regarding the beautifull but damaged individual, he could be the alpha male or female. Alpha indviduals are the strongest, most beautifull in a discus school. Their role is to lead the school and use themselves as a decoys to strand away prdators, so the school can be safe. So bite marks and scarfes are nothing unusuall, just look in the Blehers discus book, which i strongly recommend.

[TankWatcher]

The damaged one is probably one of the smallest LFS had - but did show best spot/colour potential. Didn't seem shy. Could he/she still be an alpha, even when not the biggest? I am so drawn to getting him/her, I wonder if I should?

[Eddie]

The damaged one is probably one of the smallest LFS had - but did show best spot/colour potential. Didn't seem shy. Could he/she still be an alpha, even when not the biggest? I am so drawn to getting him/her, I wonder if I should?

Dont you hate it when that happens, you see one you that decide not to get...think about it when your out, and then rush to go get it. LOL Thats how I picked up my last heckel. You never know Robyn, the little guy could turn into a swan. ;)

Eddie

[TankWatcher]

You never know Robyn, the little guy could turn into a swanYeah, what is going through my mind is that I have already been waiting / looking for RSG for 18months. Rarely available. I've asked this LFS to try get some in for me, but if he gets what his supplier says are Blues, but are really either browns or greens, I wonder what they will send him that they call RSG. There's probably not a big market in Wilds here & they are expensive at AU$200 each. If they don't sell well, he may not bother getting more wilds in at all. Thinking I should grab them when I can. Don't think we will ever see the great quality available O/S - so the damaged one may be my best opportunity to own one with at least a few spots on the body. His damaged ray will never heal though :(

Ok, Eddie - you talked me into it. Will ring LFS to check if he's still there.

[Eddie]

Yeah, what is going through my mind is that I have already been waiting / looking for RSG for 18months. Rarely available. I've asked this LFS to try get some in for me, but if he gets what his supplier says are Blues, but are really either browns or greens, I wonder what they will send him that they call RSG. There's probably not a big market in Wilds here & they are expensive at AU$200 each. If they don't sell well, he may not bother getting more wilds in at all. Thinking I should grab them when I can. Don't think we will ever see the great quality available O/S - so the damaged one may be my best opportunity to own one with at least a few spots on the body. His damaged ray will never heal though :(

Ok, Eddie - you talked me into it. Will ring LFS to check if he's still there.


LOL, okay Robyn, I will take all the blame. Its good blame though, it will settle your thoughts. What an addiction...:)

[TankWatcher]

LOL, okay Robyn, I will take all the blame. Its good blame though, it will settle your thoughts. What an addiction...Good, so it's agreed. It's all your fault I have a new wild green, settling into QT :)

[Eddie]

Good, so it's agreed. It's all your fault I have a new wild green, settling into QT :)

Ha ha ha, bet you love having him. Good luck with him or her.

EDDIE

[Heiko Bleher]

Hi tankwatcher,

I only wanted to tell you the following:

1. you have wild green discus (probably from the Tefé-region), that is Symphysodon aequifasciatus, and not blue or browns.
2. The fishes are very skinny (you can see their bones). PLEASE try to feed them VERY WELL and try to get some good (nutritious) feeds and specially some life food, such as Daphnia, Blood worms, Balck Mosquito larvae and I know you have very good cultivated Tubifex down under. Which I normally do not recommend, but tjhere is a excellent Tubifex breeder in Australia who supplies top clean Tubifex to the petshops. Than you cou must feed them well, otherwise you will have problems, as where they come from in NOT a reliableble source (I mean the exporter), at all. And those fishes have not seen food for month (you can see it by their eyes also - way to big for their size).
3. You must (should) give them a aquarium with white (or light) sandy ground, they need it. This is also why they stand not strait up, there are way to many reflections in your tank and that the wild discus cannot stand (they never live in such a unnatural habitat and in boxes backed there it is always dark - see my book how discus live...).

Just some recommendation from one who should know. You can also seeon my website how a wild discus tank should look like, under Bleher's Biotopes are some.

I will also be in Perth with the local discus club begin of June giving some seminars and lectures on discus.

best regards and happy new year,

always

Heiko Bleher
www.aquapress-bleher.com

[Triadtropz]

I thought they looked like tefe greens as well...

[TankWatcher]

Thank you Heiko for visiting my thread & confirming these are Green Discus, probably from Tefe. This tank is only their QT & I was going to keep them in bare bottom for their QT period - not a good idea????

I haven't ever seen live Tubifex down under. Only live food I can get are blackworm & brine shrimp. Thank you for letting me know they are skinny, as I hadn't realised. Because they look thick front on I missed this, but can see what you say now. Luckily, they are good eaters & gobble up everything I throw at them (except home made beefheart - which my other wilds love).

It's a shame that you will be on the opposite side of the Country to me, otherwise I would come to one of your lectures.

Thanks too, Triadtropz, for the confirmation.

[TankWatcher]

The new Greens moved tanks again today, into larger premises. They are still a little sressed from the move & have gone rather pale. Also, both they & the water are a little yellow looking, as I added some Catappa leaves to the filter, in the hopes it would make them feel less stressed about yet another move.

Even though they had only been in the tank less than one hour, they seemed to be begging for food. Here they are munching on bloodworms. Once again, beef heart is being ignored

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/TankWatcher/74G%20280L%20Wild%20Discus%20Tank/000_0840.jpg
They're rather plain looking at the moment, but I hope in time they colour up.

Heiko, note the new sand bottom. Still have to get some driftwood at a later stage.

[Eddie]

Hiya Robyn, totally missed this picture. They look like they are gonna be super nice. Good luck with them

Eddie

[mckchu]

The damaged one is probably one of the smallest LFS had - but did show best spot/colour potential. Didn't seem shy. Could he/she still be an alpha, even when not the biggest? I am so drawn to getting him/her, I wonder if I should?


I would just like to add ... unlike domestic fish where they are normally sold together from the same batch ... wild fish are caught from many places and put together in holding pans, waiting for sorting and distribution. So within a group of wild discus in a dealer's tank, the smallest doesn't mean it is not the best! Might be all the fish in the tank are from the same location, but very likely from different different parents or different batches of spawn.

In a typical domestic selection, we always look for the biggest fish in the batch, so this rule doesn't always apply to wilds.

Look for the best color, no major damages, good health, and the fish you like - then BUY it! :)

Michael

[TankWatcher]

Thanks Eddie & Michael

[Darren's Discus]

Robyn,
very nice,i'm sure they will look great when they settle in.


cheers

[TankWatcher]

Thanks Darren, not as many red spots as I'd like. I live in hope they may yet develop. I can see the shadow of red spots here & there on their body, but they're not strong enough to show in photos.