Methylene Blue...Anyone out there?

[wxman]

I've read a lot of talk about this stuff, but is anyone having success with it?

I have a pair of Cobalts who have had Fry before, but recently have had about a 90-95% unfertile (fungus) eggs. Water parameters are perfect (RO/DI) and PH about 6.5, so that's not an issue. It appears that I 'may' have about 5-10 Fry out of this batch....:angry: Hopefully they won't be eaten as in other times....

I've also turned off the sponge filters right before the eggs were layed (pecking at cone).

But, anyway, I was thinking about adding Methylene Blue to the water next time 'hoping' for a better 'yield' of Fry. I almost hate adding something to the water though.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.....Thanks.

[bs6749]

Methylene blue is not a good anti fungal contrary to popular belief. You should use acriflavin if you want to control fungus. Also, did you actually see fungusing of the eggs or is it something that you suspect? More often than not it's actually a bacterial problem, even though it looks like "fungus". Males can become unfertile too, which may be the reason for the low wiggler count.

[ShinShin]

I've used methylene blue, acriflavin, malachite green, formalin, MG and formalin, and Maroxy , and nothing at all. I found out that nothing at all works as well as anything mentioned. Fungus appears not to be your real problem. Fungus only attack dead eggs. The hyphae grows over good eggs and wigglers giving the impression perhaps of atting them. The eggs were either never fertilized or died due to water condition. Were they white within 24hrs. Were they good until about 48 hrs. then white? Why did you turn off your biofiltration?

Mat

[bs6749]

I've used methylene blue, acriflavin, malachite green, formalin, MG and formalin, and Maroxy , and nothing at all. I found out that nothing at all works as well as anything mentioned. Fungus appears not to be your real problem. Fungus only attack dead eggs. The hyphae grows over good eggs and wigglers giving the impression perhaps of atting them. The eggs were either never fertilized or died due to water condition. Were they white within 24hrs. Were they good until about 48 hrs. then white? Why did you turn off your biofiltration?

Mat

You bring up a good point that I forgot to mention about fungus, which was what you said about fungus only growing on bad eggs and not healthy ones. Also, my best guess is that the sponge filter was turned off to reduce the current in the tank in hopes of a higher fertilization rate. I don't think the little flow produced from a sponge filter would effect the fertility however.

[wxman]

I always thought that turning off the 'sponge filters' for an hour or so would INCREASE the chances for the eggs to become fertile. Am I wrong here? Perhaps I am and am doing this wrong.

Water parameters are excellent! Fish are in a 52 gallon tall tank (divided in half in which they are in 26 gallons). Heated to 87 degrees with a PH of 6.5. TDS values of around 80-100. I use RO/DI water and change approximately 25% daily. The water is very soft. I do add a little 'RO Right' to the water. I syphon the crap at the bottom of the glass tank everyday before I change water. I have lights, but they are not bright. "You should almost be able to drink out of this clean water the way it looks!"

Not sure what other issue could be a cause. I have a pair of Pigeon Blood Snakeskins in the same tank (as I said, this tank is actually 52 gallons with a divider in the middle in which they can not see the other pair) and their doing great! They've had a couple of good spawns with great Fry.

I bought the breeding pair from Hans, so you know they're good. They layed many eggs and have had many Fry from him, but I seem to be getting a lot of white looking, fungus eggs, AFTER 36 HOURS. The first 24 hours they still look reddish color. It shows around the time or day they should hatch. There is a cage around the cone because they ate the first two spawns. They are constantly guarding, or checking out the 'few' wigglers that I appear to have with all the 'white' stuff everywhere.

Suggestions are appreciated.

[discus_boy]

Methylene blue has worked wonders for me It is a great product to stop fungus. It is quick and easy to use and vertually 100% of the eggs don't get fungi

[ShinShin]

I agree with bs6749 that turning off the air to the sponge filters is needed. I never turn mine off.

Mat

[Discus-Hans]

I agree with bs6749 that turning off the air to the sponge filters is needed. I never turn mine off.

Mat

You probably mean is NOT needed, Discus are not stupid they "work" with the flow, let's put it in a funny way......they don't pee against the wind like some men do lol lol lol

I'm against putting MB in small doses in your tank, it's a medication, bacterial, create resistance, etc. etc. etc.

Hans

[mmorris]

I bought the breeding pair from Hans, so you know they're good. They layed many eggs and have had many Fry from him, but I seem to be getting a lot of white looking, fungus eggs, AFTER 36 HOURS. The first 24 hours they still look reddish color. It shows around the time or day they should hatch. There is a cage around the cone because they ate the first two spawns. They are constantly guarding, or checking out the 'few' wigglers that I appear to have with all the 'white' stuff everywhere.

Suggestions are appreciated.

1) How old is this pair?
2) How many times have they laid, exactly?
3) How many fry have hatched out?
4) When they ate the first two spawns, had the spawns hatched or were they still eggs?
If the fish are healthy, the source has little or nothing to do with the fertility of the males. Even if the source is Hans. :D
It sounds like they are not being fertilized.

[wxman]

mmorris.

'Hans' HAD this pair before in which they have had LARGE numbers of eggs in which they became Fry.

Funny though. I saw the female laying eggs (in rows) and then the male coming up right afterwards and what appeared to be fertilizing the eggs. Going through the same motions. This happened continously for 5-10 minutes.

Maybe the male was shooting 'blanks' this time around....:o

The pair are eating their eggs at the wiggler stage. AND they eat them all! Fungus and normal ones...

[mmorris]

The pair are eating their eggs at the wiggler stage. AND they eat them all! Fungus and normal ones...

Eggs don't have a wiggler stage. Parents often eat the fry if there are very few. They don't seem to think a small batch is worth the trouble. Are you saying they are eating the infertile, white eggs, the viable fertile eggs (the normal ones) and the fry?

[wxman]

YES.

Eating everything and 'cleaning' house. The cone looks like nothing was ever on it.

Wigglers never get to the Fry stage.

[Discus-Hans]

1) How old is this pair?
2) How many times have they laid, exactly?
3) How many fry have hatched out?
4) When they ate the first two spawns, had the spawns hatched or were they still eggs?
If the fish are healthy, the source has little or nothing to do with the fertility of the males. Even if the source is Hans. :D
It sounds like they are not being fertilized.

Martha,
you still don't get it I think.

All pairs we sell are pairs formed from the 5" we grow out here in Baltimore or come in as young adults.

Me as the source makes a different, we don't sell warned out pairs just because we are not a breeder. We are importers and sellers of Stendker Discus, that means Discus bred by Stendker in Germany.
We build up this stock in breeders just as a security for IF anything happens in Germany (fire, etc) or an import stop (like we had on goldfish) we have the stock in breeders to direct start breeding here in the USA.
At that moment Stendker sends a few people to the US to set up a hatchery here.
Every pair (what I think is a pair) gets +/- 10 days to have fry, if no eggs, they are 2 males, if many or every 2 ~ 3 days eggs, we've 2 females and change the partners till they got it right. We've here in Baltimore a stock in 5"+ and young adults of +/- 400 Discus so enough to pick from.
If one of those pairs are sold, we direct form an other pair. We don't wast tank space on crappy breeders. Discus that don't breed for what ever reason in our tanks go in the single adult tanks.
All pairs we sell are from the tanks we would use as our own breeders.

We just made pictures today of 13 new pairs, we will put those asap. on our home page,

Hans

[ShinShin]

Yes, that's exactly what I meant, Hans. ;)

Mat

[MostlyDiscus]

I kind of read that too and kind of blinked for a minute. I think BS has it right though. Its bactiera most likely from organics due to feeding. While most of your parameters are good I would lower your temp. I think Soh said the males are more fertile at lower temps. Very intresting Hans on your breeding here in the states just in case of disaster in Germany. Very smart I think.

Ed

[wxman]

Hans is the man folks!

If you can trust anyone out there, it would be him. I've purchased a couple of pairs from him and I can tell you that they arrived IN PERFECT CONDITION. I'm very satisified with his insight in this field and believe he has never NOT returned an e-mail or a text message to him.

Thank you Hans....AND YES, NO METHYLENE BLUE for me.....:D

A big thanks for everyones 2 cents worth though.....

R Jackson

[Discus-Hans]

Very intresting Hans on your breeding here in the states just in case of disaster in Germany. Very smart I think.
Ed

Ed,

we DON'T breed here, only have the breeding pairs on hand IF there is something like an import stop.

Hans



Hans is the man folks!
he has never NOT returned an e-mail or a text message to him.


Just counted them Ron you're on number 1 sending me emails: 93 now :argue: :D

from my wife Joanne 79

My ex-wife 63 (lol)

Hans

[mmorris]

Martha,
you still don't get it I think.

Hans

I wasn't implying that they were old, but rather that they were young. I missed this sentence: `They layed many eggs and have had many Fry from him,...' That fact doesn't eliminate age as a consideration - one factor of many.

[jjferg]

I've read a lot of talk about this stuff, but is anyone having success with it?

I have a pair of Cobalts who have had Fry before, but recently have had about a 90-95% unfertile (fungus) eggs. Water parameters are perfect (RO/DI) and PH about 6.5, so that's not an issue. It appears that I 'may' have about 5-10 Fry out of this batch....:angry: Hopefully they won't be eaten as in other times....

I've also turned off the sponge filters right before the eggs were layed (pecking at cone).

But, anyway, I was thinking about adding Methylene Blue to the water next time 'hoping' for a better 'yield' of Fry. I almost hate adding something to the water though.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.....Thanks.

I have made up a base mixture of 5ml per 20 litres with dilution scaled down to a 2 litre jug. I use a syringe and squirt the meth blue over the eggs. This definitely does not harm the eggs. Andrew Soh has recommended using meth blue in his book “Discus The Naked Truth” page 60. That’s enough of a recommendation for me!

[LizStreithorst]

Once the pair is done spawning I pull the cone and dribble full strength Meth Blue over the eggs then put the cone back in. I only use the meth blue if I'm going to cage the eggs. Without the cage I think the pair does a good job keeping the eggs clean themselves.