Very Agressive Blood Pigeon, What to do.

[TJT]

My first 2 Discus i bought were Blood pigeon, I owned them for about a year before i had the money and space to upgrade my tank. They were juvies when i got them and now they are about 3". I lost one when i moved in october from what looked like Co2 posioning. The one that lived use to be very timmed when you would get near the tank. He would usualy hide and was a little bit smaller then the other Discus.

I had the room and money so i picked up 3 blue turq discus and they all did rather well for a while until i saw the blood pigeon starting to pick on them more and more. After a while 2 of the blue would hide almost 24 horus a day, usualy once a week i would see them for a day but i would always watch the blood pigeon chase them into coners and under wood. Yesterday me and my fiancee went out and picked up 2 more in hopes he would change his agressive ways or maybe change the pecking order in the tank.

I picked up 2 beautiful new discus, one is a yellow something, and the other has compleatly slipped my mind(its a really nice melon color).

The moment i put them in my tank the blood pigeon was all over them, the yellow guy sits in the top corner of my tank beside the powerhead, litteraly where the blood pigeon will chase him too. and the melon guy is hiding under the wood again where he gets chased too. The blood pigeon never hids like he did a year ago, but now hes becoming too agressive. Its nto a playful swim or anything hes darting into the fish and looks like hes nipping as well another i dont see any fin or skin damage.

I was thinking to put him into my breeder net for a couple days but i thought that might be crule. Ive also tried moving the tank surroundings around to see if the "pecking order" would change but he seems to have taken over the alpha male role.

I do have a 25g tank i could setup, i just dont want to have to cycle it and i would only do that if its my last option as i dont have any room for it at the moment.

Btw this is a 90g tank, temps are 85-86c, water conditions are all good.

suggestions? :(

[mikel]

If you want to intervene, and do not let nature takes its course (which I completely understand, as I would be inclined to do the same), I think you have no choice but to put the aggressive one away for a while...then re-introduce him as a new "guest", and he MIGHT change his attitude, or change for a short while. These are cichlids, and they can be tough on each other. Did you quarantine your new fish before your elease them into your community tank? You should be careful. mike

[Eddie]

Another thing you can do is re-arrange the tank completely. The pigeon blood made his territory and he is guarding his grounds. Moving things around will make him choose another area and start fresh. Time and patience is the best thing after that. The meany that runs the tank will not always be the leader. Also, size does make a difference too so if the others are much smaller than your pigeon, he will be in charge until the others catch up.

You say your pigeon is only 3" after 1 year? Thats a bit small for one year. Can you post any pics of your tank and discus?

HTH
Eddie

[DiscussDiscus]

I agree with Eddie,

You should definitely try re-arranging the wood and powerheads. The pigeon has had a long time in your tank to believe the entire tank is his, and due to the way the new fish were introduced a little at a time, the pigeon is able to focus very exclusively on picking on them.

I'd either take him out of the tank and put him in the 25 for a couple days or do a re-arrange.

I'd be careful due to moving logs and things in planted tanks. Sometimes there can be nitrate pockets under your logs, or old detriment. A good gravel vac and water change can help any unintended water spikes from a re-arrange.

Regards,
Lee

[TJT]

Another thing you can do is re-arrange the tank completely. The pigeon blood made his territory and he is guarding his grounds. Moving things around will make him choose another area and start fresh. Time and patience is the best thing after that. The meany that runs the tank will not always be the leader. Also, size does make a difference too so if the others are much smaller than your pigeon, he will be in charge until the others catch up.

You say your pigeon is only 3" after 1 year? Thats a bit small for one year. Can you post any pics of your tank and discus?

HTH
Eddie

Yeah he is a bit small for his age, he is a bit "football" shape as well. He was one of the first 2 i bought and i think the other one that died suddenly on me was picking on him because he use to not eat a whole lot. Now that you mentioned it he he at least 1" bigger then the blue turqs ive had in the tank with him for quite a few months and thats when i saw the agression start. The two new dicuss i got are as big as him thought i just dont want them to become so timmid there growth becomes stunted as well. Also since he "took over" the tank i have noticed a lot of growth from him. I just wish he would let the other fish swim around more, he is very agressive towards the new pair i got, the melon has been hiding all day.

I didnt QT these 2 new fish mainly because i didnt have my 25 setup at all, and my supplier is very very good(i know trusting him so much will one day cost me, but its a very small very well run fish store).

Ill post some picks of them in a bit, and maybe someone can refresh what types i bought. I almost feel like im neglecting them because i dont know what they are called. But i just want to make sure they are healthy and happy in the tank.

[Eddie]

Sounds fine, the QT process is recommended to save all your fish so the risks you take are the risks you take. To each his own

I think the rearranging will be the ticket for sure. Disturbing the tank will make them all fend for their territory. With time, the others will hopefully stand up to him, just give them time to settle.

Eddie

[TJT]

So after watching this discus constantly peck/nip at the 2 new guys i set up my 25 galon tank.

Its just a bit of gravel, HOB filter, heater and a light.

My question is do i have to get this tank to cycle, or only having one discuss in there be ok for a couple weeks? i dont really want to pull media out of my canister filter on my 90g because its a real hassle to get too, but i dont want to wait 2 weeks for this tank to cycle on its own. I also dont want to toss a discuss into a new tank and have it die from not cycling lol.

One of my blue turqs has some very bad fin damage, im assuming its the blood pigeon thats why im going to move him for a bit.

Any advice so i can move this fish quicker would be great ill probably re scape my 90g, but because it is a planted tank its a pretty big task :(.

[TJT]

Also the 2 new fish are comming out more and more, but its actualy causing the blood to be more agressive with them. The melon was in the yellow guys spot today and i watched the blood pigeon chase the yellow guy to his "Spot" but because it was tanken from the mellon they were all nipping at eachother. The melon hasnt ate much, but the yellow one eats all the time. Ill post some pictures so i dont have to call them "yellow guy" and "mellon" :D

[DiscussDiscus]

TJT,

I'd reccommend cycling any tank you plan on putting discus in, they have such a low tolerance for ammonia or nitrites, in my experience.

As for the aggression, from my understanding it is natural for the lesser fish to begin to fight back, but depending on how things shake out in your tank, they may never be a chairman and an executive board so much as a dictator and his peons :)

Regards,
Lee

[moik]

Put the trouble maker in his own tank. Give him some time by himself and try to reintroduce him. Still no luck, rearrange the tank or put him in his own tank again for good.. Always you can swing the axe..Not worth the trouble of one fish stressing out the other ones..Keep them together then you will have take one out anyway to treat it for being sick. If not more of them. I have a trouble maker of my own. If he was not a really good fish, he would of been long gone..

[TJT]

Picture one is the king of the castle, the evil blood.

Picture 2 shows the tail damage on one of the blue turqs

Picture 3 is just a nice shot i got of another blue turq (i love the camera i got my fiancee for christmas, underwater shots are cool)

Picture 4 if the mell guy who hasnt been eating and hides all the time. in the last 2 days ive seen him come out once or twice but very timmid.

Picture 5 is the yellow guy who eats a lot, but is always chased to his spot from the blood pigeon.

I know the shape of the blood isnt great, he was actualy very timmed when i first got him i think hes stunted. Also one of the blue turqs was very timmid when i got them(at the time i had 3 blue turqs and the blood pigeon) but since i got the 2 new guys all the blue ones are out and i see no problems with them other then the fin damage.

Now the mellon took the "timmid" roll in my tank.

[moik]

put an eggcrate divider diagonal in one corner of the tank and put that trouble maker in it.. Just a thought if you have one tank. Your other fish look stressed from the trouble maker... Try to pawn it off at the LFS for store credit or swing the axe.

[Eddie]

I find the best way take care of the bully situation is to stick your head down into the tank as far as you can and SCREAM your head off. After that, none of your fish will try to be the boss. :D


I'm just kidding but I'm sure you will spook the hell out of your fish! LOL

Eddue

[mikel]

Your bully fish is indeed a stunted fish...he doesnt look all that good, but if you want to keep him, you need to separate him. You can use your new tank immediately if you can get a hold of some bio-spira and, with only one fish, that's no big deal in adding the spira and the fish together simultaneously. Are those platies and livebeareres in your tank too?

It looks like you need to feed your young discus a bit more intensely if you want to put some good size and big shoulders on them. This in a planted tank means a lot more work in maintaining the water quality....mike

[aquadiva]

To help cycle your 25 gallon tank, you could also add a bit of gravel/rocks and water from your main tank to the 25 as they likely have some good bio-goodies on them. Dr. Tims One and Only would also be a good choice of biological additive if you can find it there or order it on line. Maybe if you keep the bully in the 25 gallon for awhile, he'll behave once introduced to the main tank again. If he won't, I would consider placing him in a new home rather than having the whole tank stressed daily. :bomb:

Anna:sun:

[TJT]

. Are those platies and livebeareres in your tank too?



Yeah those were the first fish i had when i started my tank a couple years back. The livebeareres spawned 12-18 babies about 4 times(gav a bunch too friends who had some tanks.). Im actualy currently looking for a new home for them as i NOW know they like quite diffrent water conditions. That being said i run my tank at 85-86 and it doesnt seem to bother them a whole lot. In calgary our tap water is so hard ive been advised not to try to soften it with chemicals because of how often i water change ill never be able to keep it soft. So i doubt ill be able to breed discus, but thats ok.

My plants havent taken off in this 90g, i have a bunch of low light plants i havent had the time to set up a co2 system or get better lighting, want to get the fish happy first.