Need Help!!

[thebigone]

Hello,

This is a piegon blood discus and he is acting ok. I don't know what else to do or what this could be. He is the only one effected. It started out as 1 pimple looking dot on his side. Then is went away. Then 2 came back one in the same spot and another one further back on the same side. Now, the two feel off and where they were it looks like he has sores that are flared up. I also checked the other side and now he has a pimple looking dot on that side now. I have given him salt baths, and treated him/ the whole tank with Melafix. I'm not the most knowledgeable with discus and still learning. I havn't seen him eat but my wife says that she has saw he eat. Now, I am asking my friends at Simply for help before he gets any worse. Please help.

These pics. are not the best quality but I will have my wife take pics. with her camra with the better quality. Any advice will help.

[thebigone]

Water : Ammonia-0.0 Nitrite-0.0 PH-6.5 Temp. is kept between 84-86

[White Worm]

Remove the fish from the tank and apply iodine directly on the wounds with a qtip and return it to the tank.

[thebigone]

Do you think that it is a scrape/cut or something? Why would the little pimple looking thing turned into this? How often do I need to do this?? once a day? once a week?

[Don Trinko]

I do not think it is a scrape or cut. I think it might be a parasite but what kind I do not know. Malchite green and Formalin will kill most parasites in the water collum. You may also need an antibiotic because of the open sores left after the pimple. Melafix (imo) does very little. All of this is IMO. There are others that know a lot more than I do abought disease. Don T.

[White Worm]

Looks like a sore but hard to tell from the pics. The quickest route to healing an external sore like that would be to use Iodine directly on it. JMO but it worked a miracle for me in the recent past. Do it once and then watch for healing for about 3-4 days. You will be able to see if it gets better. I had to apply it 2x to see that the wounds were indeed healing but my fish was in much more serious condition. Dont be concerned if it looks worse immediately after using the iodine because it will look bad but it kills the infection plus some temporary scale and skin areas but they will heal quickly. Just keep it strictly to the area of the sore as much as possible.

[Eddie]

I agree with WhiteWorm, try to remove the fish and apply iodine as a best option. Melafix is tea tree oil and doesn't do squat.

Eddie

[thebigone]

Here are some better pics. of the fish. I will try the iodine. I will go pick some up today in the meantime if these pics. tell you something better then let me know. I appreciate all the help I can get on this one to help me be a better discus keeper. Thanks to everyone so far!

[mikel]

Iodine sounds good. Can I ask you why the water seem so murky? If you want to avoid disease in the future, and help the fish grow out of its current skinny state, then I would get rid of your substrate and clear the tank of all sorts of stuff, and just keep young fish in a clean tank with clean water and grow them out properly. Otherwise this and or other diseases will recur. Sickness comes from the environment. Good luck! mike

[Eddie]

Iodine sounds good. Can I ask you why the water seem so murky? If you want to avoid disease in the future, and help the fish grow out of its current skinny state, then I would get rid of your substrate and clear the tank of all sorts of stuff, and just keep young fish in a clean tank with clean water and grow them out properly. Otherwise this and or other diseases will recur. Sickness comes from the environment. Good luck! mike

Hey Mike, you don't have to have a BB to growout nice fish, you just gotta clean the hell out of your tank and do 100% WCs daily. :D

That fish looks very bad, very very nasty. I picked up some stuff called bio bandage that works WONDERS. If a fish gets an open flesh wound from darting around, I just use this gel like stuff and it's gone in a day. Don't know if it will help your issue but I think it could.

http://www.aquariumguys.com/hikari-bio-bandage.html

Eddie

[mikel]

Agree with you, Eddie, but very few have the stemina that you have with the 100% WC! For the rest of the mortals, it's a lot easier to deal with BB and clean water. I can't even begin to imagine what my tanks would be like with the kind of feeding I do and the level of nitrates going through the roof if I had any sort of substrate...;)mike

[thebigone]

:(I just wanted to let you all know that I have done the iodine and salt baths and everything that you all told me I should do and when my wife got home yesterday the fish was dead.:( That sucks because he could have been really nice. I thought that I would just let you all know. I guess I caught it too late. All of the other fish are fine. What could I treat the tank with now that wouldn't hurt the other fish that are doing fine? What would be the treatment? I guess I have failed for now but never giving up!!

[Eddie]

:(I just wanted to let you all know that I have done the iodine and salt baths and everything that you all told me I should do and when my wife got home yesterday the fish was dead.:( That sucks because he could have been really nice. I thought that I would just let you all know. I guess I caught it too late. All of the other fish are fine. What could I treat the tank with now that wouldn't hurt the other fish that are doing fine? What would be the treatment? I guess I have failed for now but never giving up!!

Hey Josh,

Just read your thread. I am sorry to hear about your fish. The fish looked very bad, worse than most things I have ever seen. The iodine did not kill the fish for sure. The salt bath is something you have to monitor very closely, it can be very stressful for a fish. Again, I am sorry to hear of the loss but everyone was just trying to give you avenues.

It would be very hard to tell if you do have something in your tank that will affect all the fish. To not have a clue what it is and drop meds in the tank will be just as risky as treating your last fish. The only med that I have used that seems to come close to what you had is Eurithromycin. It deals with skin lesions, blood spots or cysts. Do some research on the med and maybe have it on hand.

Another thing that I notice is that most of your pictures show your tank super cloudy. Why is your water so cloudy?

Eddie

[thebigone]

Eddie,

I appriacate everyones help don't get me wrong. I did a 75% water change this morning and now my water is as clear as it has every been. Do you think that the fish could have done something to the water? I was doing a 20% wc every other day.

[Don Trinko]

WC and BB/gravel are both contraversial. Clean water, correct temperature, stable water parameters, and good food are not near as contraversial. Allmost everyone (IMO) will agree that these are neccisary.
The path you take to get these is contraversial. This is my way of saying that some of us do have gravel and do not change 100% every day and still have healthy discus. I am retired and I do devote time that others may not have to maintaining my fish tanks. ( 14 tanks, 4 with discus ) Don t.

[Eddie]

Eddie,

I appriacate everyones help don't get me wrong. I did a 75% water change this morning and now my water is as clear as it has every been. Do you think that the fish could have done something to the water? I was doing a 20% wc every other day.

No Josh...I think the water could have done something to the fish ;)

Keep it clean, big WCs everyday for a week and then continue your every other day but maybe 50%.

Eddie

[shawnhu]

Salt usually keeps freshwater parasites and bacteria at bay in the water column. It also sooths and promotes smile coat regeneration, but increase concentration to 1 TBSP per 5 gallons gradually. Same goes when removing the salt.

[thebigone]

Don T.,

I hope you have alot more time then I do with 14 tanks. I have one tank and with my work taking me 10-12 hours at the time 6 to 7 days a week it gets tough sometimes.

Eddie,

Thanks for all your help. You are a good mentor!!;) You know a lot about this hobby. I will do as big of a water change as I can for the next week then I might do maybe 30-35% water change every other day. Do you think that will be enough? Its a 125 gallon and all the fish are about to get moved to a 150 gallon.(great deal on tank couldn't pass it up.)

Shawnhu,

I have been told by the LFS that it couldn't ever hurt to add salt to a fresh water tank or for that matter any fish. Now I know why. Thanks.

[Eddie]

Don T.,

I hope you have alot more time then I do with 14 tanks. I have one tank and with my work taking me 10-12 hours at the time 6 to 7 days a week it gets tough sometimes.

Eddie,

Thanks for all your help. You are a good mentor!!;) You know a lot about this hobby. I will do as big of a water change as I can for the next week then I might do maybe 30-35% water change every other day. Do you think that will be enough? Its a 125 gallon and all the fish are about to get moved to a 150 gallon.(great deal on tank couldn't pass it up.)

Shawnhu,

I have been told by the LFS that it couldn't ever hurt to add salt to a fresh water tank or for that matter any fish. Now I know why. Thanks.


HAHAHA LOL....me? A mentor....no way. Thanks though

I just believe that water is the biggest weapon in combating illness in discus. All day everyday somebody posts about this fish, this gill, this spot, this behavior, not eating. Then you see how their WC routine is or lack there of. Some say that having low nitrates is the key, and it is... but it's much deeper than that. 100% clean/fresh water all day is the key. ;)

Eddie

[Don Trinko]

I,m not sure that low nitrates is the key but I think it is an indication of the removal of the waste products of the fish and overall cleanliness. I say this because fish waste and rotting left over food both result in ammomia, (much of the ammonia comes from the gills) then nitrites, and finaly nitrates.
People have good results ( healthy fish and good growth) with a wide variety of WC routines. If you have the bioload ( many fish in tank, clearly violating 1 fish per 10g water) that many breeders do and feed 6 times a day you probably do need to do a minimum of 1 100% wc per day. If you have 6 adult discus in a 90g and feed twice a day less wc is probably fine.
This has been discussed a lot and many are successfull with their wc routine. What we realy need is a scientific study that would give us some parameter to measure or a guide based on scientific information. At the moment we have what works for many individuals based on their past experiences.
The one thing (IMO) we know for sure is that to little wc will eventualy result in poor health of the fish, What we don't know is what is too little wc?
Don T.

[Eddie]

I,m not sure that low nitrates is the key but I think it is an indication of the removal of the waste products of the fish and overall cleanliness. I say this because fish waste and rotting left over food both result in ammomia, (much of the ammonia comes from the gills) then nitrites, and finaly nitrates.
People have good results ( healthy fish and good growth) with a wide variety of WC routines. If you have the bioload ( many fish in tank, clearly violating 1 fish per 10g water) that many breeders do and feed 6 times a day you probably do need to do a minimum of 1 100% wc per day. If you have 6 adult discus in a 90g and feed twice a day less wc is probably fine.
This has been discussed a lot and many are successfull with their wc routine. What we realy need is a scientific study that would give us some parameter to measure or a guide based on scientific information. At the moment we have what works for many individuals based on their past experiences.
The one thing (IMO) we know for sure is that to little wc will eventualy result in poor health of the fish, What we don't know is what is too little wc?
Don T.

Actually Don, have you ever seen a post of somebody that had stunted fish that were getting 100% WCs daily until adulthood. I haven't seen one....ever. Now diet and genetics also play a part in the development but I do believe that water has a greater affect on health.

Eddie

[Don Trinko]

Every stunted discus I have had (2) was probably stunted before I got it due to ignorance on my part. They were also all picky eaters. In some cases I isolated them, fed them lots of good food ( that they typicaly would not eat) and had far less that 1 discus per 10g of water with very little success on growth.
WC is contraversial. It is obvious that many different methods apear to work to the satisfaction of the individual hobbiest. What I am saying is that it would be nice to see a scientific study that would give a scientific reason for the amount of water to change.
I'm certainly no expert on this and what I am doing evolved to the present day and may change in the future. Don T.