Ph reliability

[frenchie100]

Hi everyone,

I got 5 new discus from Kenny yesterday and before going to bed thought I would check on them. They are in a 55 gallon BB tank.
My problem is that they just started showing really dark stress bars and swimming up and down.
I have a Mardel Live pH Test Meter in there at all times that is showing the pH to be at 7.4, BUT I just tested my water with the 6-1 test strips from Jungle labs and my pH is showing to be above 8.4, KH >300ppm, nitrites 0, nitrates <10ppm. What should I do, and what test to trust?
The live meter is brand new too, they only work for 4-6 weeks.
Thanks for the help!
-Julie

[Mr Wild]

What is the PH of your tap water? Can you do partial wc to help?

[Darrell Ward]

Julie, I would do a large water change, and get a liquid PH test as fast as I could! I have found those test strips to be inaccurate. I don't know about those live test meters. They look like a marketing gimmick to me. Maybe I'm just an "old school geezer", but I wouldn't trust one unless I tested it against a known standard. I use the AP PH test. Works good enough for me. Something is definitely wrong with that water. Is it public water? If so, what did you use to dechlorinate it with? What is the normal PH of your water out of the faucet? Good Luck. I hope they make it, Kenny sells great fish.

[mikel]

Throw out those strips....only good as a general indicator and they are horribly inaccurate. Your fish is acting stressed most likely due to the PH. Kenny's fish are well acclimated, and he most likely already told you what he does for those fish before he sends them to their new homes. I think if you aim for relatively general range between neutral to slightly one way or another, you shouldnt have a problem. My water is at neutral all the time, and very soft right off the tap, so when my fish from Kenny came to me, I simply plop him into QT tank with my tap water (conditioned using Prime) and he was eating within 15 minutes...this. So his fish is tough, and if they are acting stress, something is really stressing them out. Get the old fashion water test kit for your PH reading and go from there. mike

[Don Trinko]

As above Liquid test kit or ph probe. Same for ammonia nitrites ect. Don T.

[acroken]

Julie,
as stated already liquid test kits or Ph meter for accuracy. Try and get your ph below 7.0 slowly to lessen ammonia toxicity.

Kenny

[frenchie100]

That's why I wanted to mention that my fish came from Kenny right off the bat, so that it would be obviously something wong with my water and not my fish.:)
For my water treatment I was using all sorts of things like neutral regulator, discus buffer and prime. Here is the thread that explains everything:

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=68134

This week I tested to see if my water was stable using that Mardel live pH meter, which told me that after 24hrs my water was stable at 7.4. Now since I don't know which to believe I have no idea what my pH truly is. I am going to get that liquid test as soon as petsmart opens...
For this new shipment of fish, I used prime and that's it, again, because I thought my pH was stable.
*sigh*
:mad: I'm going to be really upset if that live meter thing wasn't working...

Thanks everyone. I'll keep you updated...

[poconogal]

I agree, get a regular test kit for PH, Ammonia, Nitrite and even Nitrate. API makes decent ones and not very expensive. Test your tap water as well as the tank water. Even if your PH is 7.4, or 7.6 or even 8.0, you don't need to adjust it. Many keep their Discus at higher PH with no problem. I keep mine at 7.6 and have had many spawnings. I use my tap for WCs and since I'm on my own well, I don't need any dechlorinator. I would also get a test kit for KH/GH and test your tap and tank water too.

[Don Trinko]

Stability is the main thing. Your ph is fine anywhere in the range you are getting as long as it stays in one place. In the past I have tryed to change the ph. It is difficult with most tap water and unnessicary. 6.0 to 8.4 is fine as long as it is stable within reason.
It is possible that you are seeing the results of a ph jump when you initialy added them to your tank.
The stress bars may also be a reaction to the new tank. If only the bars are dark and they are not hidding and are swimming normal I would give them a day or 2. Your tank lighting and background will also have some effect on the bars. Don T.

[frenchie100]

:mad: Arrrghh! Just got back from Petsmart who tested 2 water samples:
1. from the tank from BEFORE my 50% water change
2. from the tank AFTER my 50% water change

Both tested at 8.4!!! And the hardness off the chart hard... They said in our area we have really hard water...

So although I am not 100% sure my water is stable, I think it is because the first water they tested I hadn't changed the water in 24hrs. Maybe 20 hrs but definitely not less than that.

Help!
Thank you!
-Julie

[rickztahone]

:mad: Arrrghh! Just got back from Petsmart who tested 2 water samples:
1. from the tank from BEFORE my 50% water change
2. from the tank AFTER my 50% water change

Both tested at 8.4!!! And the hardness off the chart hard... They said in our area we have really hard water...

So although I am not 100% sure my water is stable, I think it is because the first water they tested I hadn't changed the water in 24hrs. Maybe 20 hrs but definitely not less than that.

Help!
Thank you!
-Julie

IMO Julie, if you are worried about your water not being stable just age it for a day and you should be fine. drop all the other chemical stuff and just use a good quality conditioner and that's it. make sure you aerate the aging water and add a heater. i think you might be stressing a little more than your discus are. take a picture so we can see them. are they breathing hard, swimming irregular? do you use the same process to do a WC for the discus you already have? like a lot of people say on here K-I-S-S (keep it simple stupid) no offense on the stupid part, it's the saying :D

[Don Trinko]

The ph of tap water will normaly go up in the 1st 24 hours because disolved gases will come out of the water. My tap changes from abought 7.6 to 8.4.
this is normal. 8.4 ph is OK for domestic tank raised discus. Hard water is not a problem either. Fish can take a change in ph to the up side better than to the down side. My tanks are typicaly ph of 7.6 to 8.0. The water I add during WC is typicaly 8.4. It also helps to add the new water slowly so that the change in water parameters is gradual.
It typicaly takes 8 to 10 minutes for me to pump the new water into a 29g tank and more for a larger tank. It is also important to have the temperature of the added water near the tank temperature. I try to have my storage temp 2 degrees higher than the tank temp. Don T.

[frenchie100]

Hi Ricardo- I thought I had covered my basis with water stability by testing it in a 24 hr period, with that live pH meter but that thing is a piece of junk. Like Darrell said it is just a marketing gimmick.:mad: I don't know if I have the space for an aging barrel, but will try to think where. My other 2 discus, when they were in the 100 gallon tank were in neutral water because at every water change I was using neutral regulator, discus buffer and prime ( I know I was already briefed about that in another thread:o). Now they are in a QT tank so as far as their behavior, it is hard to tell is stress is coming from water pH or meds.

Hi Don- That's a really good tip about making the water 2 degrees warmer in the aging barrel! What I don't understand is if your aged water is at 8.4, how are you getting your water in your tank to be 7.6-8.0? Sorry if I missed something :o.

Oh and I just realized this should have been in the water works section so I am going to paste it there and continue in that section.

Thanks!
-Julie

[Don Trinko]

no Julie; you are not missing anything. The tank water is influenced by the fish, the good bacteria, etc. My tank almost always ends up a little lower in ph than my storage water. I do not know the exact reason but it does.
Many do use a storage barrell but many do not. It can be done either way. It is possable that ph is not the problem. Typicaly discus can withstand a small (.5) ph change as long as it doesn't happen to quick.
Dark stress bars alone do not IMO neccisarily indicate a problem. Especialy in new fish. The bars are used in nature to blend in their suroundings.
Typicaly sick fish have some symptoms such as inactive, not eating,
( common for new fish but does not neccisarily indicate they are sick), dark and pointing to the rear of the tank, etc.
If possible a photo would help. Don T.