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dm6464
01-27-2009, 03:11 PM
Hi Everybody,
This is my first post and I have no idea what I am doing so any feedback is surely welcomed. I set up my tank after it had been garaged for 7 years. I was thrilled to find it again and in complete shock that the ex wife had not smashed it to pieces... lol. Anyway, it's been a year now and I wanted to share my experiences and hopefully get others opinions in return. I also want to preface this by saying I make no claims of expertise, I am sure I've done some things wrong... My real purpose is to encourage other people considering discus keeping to go ahead and give it a try... It's fun and really not all that hard. I started with an old 38 gal. Marineland tank and a Fluval 304. See my equipment really was old. :p I went by the LFS and found that he had three 2"-3" discus in stock and they were beautiful. In that moment I decided I was going to get them and I setup my tank as follows: I used a fluorite substrate with regular gravel on top of it, as I intended to have plants too. I would not say I have a planted tank, rather a tank with plants. I setup my filter with the sponges, ceramic rings, charcoal and peat granules. The water here is hard with a KH OF 8 and a PH of 7.8 I was hoping the peat would bring both of those readings down which it did. By changing the peat every 6-8 weeks I can keep a pretty stable KH reading of around 4. I also had an old CO2 injection system that I fumbled with for a while and finally got installed. I use the Milwaukee SMS 122 ph meter and it works great. Coupled with the CO2, it keeps the PH at a reasonably steady 6.7 and is pretty much just set it and forget it. After getting everything setup, working properly and making sure nothing leaked, I planted several plants and went ahead and cycled the tank with 10 Neon Tetras. It's been a year now and I am pleased to say that 9 of those Neon’s are still alive today. In fact, that one little Tetra is the only fish that has died in my tank. I used two large bottles of 'Cycle' and let the tank do its thing for about 20 days. During this time I was obsessing daily. I just could not wait to get my Discus as I had already put a deposit on them. I was testing the water daily and as soon as I was sure no ammonia was present I went ahead and picked up my fish. As I said, my KH was 4 and my PH was 6.7; This is just my personal feeling, but for the new guy keep this in mind. The Discus you buy have never seen the tea colored, acidic, soft water of the Amazon. They were raised in tanks, and while I believe millions of years of evolution and the fishes DNA dictate the ideal conditions in which they will thrive, the bottom line is they were raised in tanks. I have found my Discus to be far more hardy than most of the things I read would lead me to believe. I brought my fish home from the LFS where the PH was 7.5, the KH 8 and they have done fine. In addition to my Discus and the original Tetras I cycled the tank with, I have also added two Clown Loaches and two Otocinclus. The snails were out of control and I did not want to put copper into my tank, the loaches have done a great job on the snails and they are fun to watch. They are also beautiful. The two I have are so bright and orange they almost look like saltwater fish. I plan to upgrade to a 60-70 gal tank within 6 months so my fish will have more room to grow. At that time I plan to add another Loach so they can be in a school of three. As far as plants go, I have about ten. I've found that in the warmer water, 84 degrees, Ferns, Onion Plants, various Mondo Grasses, Dwarf Sagittaria and Jungle Vallisneria seem to do well. I add liquid fertilizer twice a week and let the fluorite handle the roots. I have made a few equipment changes since setting up. I replaced my Fluval 304 with a Rena XP3 and I also replaced my 150 watt Ebo Jager with a 250 watt Rena Smart Heater. My son uses the Fluval on his 20 gal and it still works fine. After getting the XP3 I was obsessing on the Smart Heater. I did not have a backup so I went ahead and got it. I now keep the Ebo as a backup. A note on the Smart Heater... I love it! As with the Ebo Jager, the temp never fluctuates by even one degree. Regardless of when I check it, it's always 84 degrees. My tank sits near my patio door too and that door stays open quite a bit, still the temp never fluctuates. In summary this is my setup today: 38 gal tank, Rena XP3, 250 watt Rena Smart Heater, large air pump, CO2 injection w/bubble counter, Milwaukee SMS 122 PH Probe and a Vortex D2 Diatom Filter. I run the Diatom once a week for 12-24 hours after water changes. I do 70% water changes once a week. I used to do 40% changes twice a week; however, I've found that either way, my nitrates never go above 20. That being said, the fish seem to be doing fine. My ammonia and nitrite readings are always zero. The XP3 has 6 chambers. The bottom two have, two 20 and two 30 sponges, the middle two have Seachem Matrix, the fifth has Seachem Matrix and about 1/2 cup peat granules in a filter bag and the top one has, one pouch Bio Chem Zorb and a super-micro filtration pad. I know the Bio Chem Zorb has charcoal in it. Any thoughts on this as far as plants go? I also pump air into the tank. I've read that air dissipates the CO2 during the day but I'm always worried about the fish rather than the plants. Any ideas on this? As of today my PH is 6.7, KH 4, nitrates 20, nitrites 0 and ammonia 0. My tank seems to be doing very well. I have an almost moss like algae growing on the rocks that is beautiful. My plants are healthy and my fish seem happy. Even though the tank is in the middle of my living room and near a door, they never seem to get spooked. They always come to the front of the tank and act excited to see people. I feed them three times a day, with four types of food. Hikari Frozen Blood worms and Hikari Frozen Spirulina Brine Shrimp, Sally's Emerald Entree and TetraColor Tropical Granules. They pretty much seem to devour all four. Any thoughts on the food are welcomed too.

I apologize for this being so long, maybe I should have joined the forum sooner... lol. As you can see I am no expert and am looking for any advice you may have. I don’t even know what types of Discus I own. I went to a couple of stores where the first guy had to order them and wanted to charge $75.00 each. The other store had them in stock and wanted $35.00 each. I'm sure you can figure which store I bought from. If you're new to this, the negative side to getting them this way is, I knew more about Discus than the LFS did. If I was to do it again I would order over the internet from a reputable breeder. They guarantee the fish and you can actually pick what color, or type you desire. I had read so much over the internet about these fish I was almost overwhelmed. If you’re new to fish, or Discus, I encourage you to just go for it. Buy the largest tank and the best filter you can afford and stock the tank accordingly. Discus need to be kept in at least schools of three. One will be lonely and stressed, two will fight and at least three gives them the type of social structure they need. I’ve found that good plant lights, regular doses of fertilizer, CO2, massive amounts of filtration and regular water changes are all that is necessary to have a happy and healthy tank. I have included pictures of my tank and all three of my Discus. Please let me know what you think and if anybody can identify the type of Discus I own I would appreciate it!

dm6464
01-27-2009, 04:21 PM
I forgot to mention the hood I use is the original for the Eclipse filter system. It holds two 24" bulbs with a max of 20 watts each. I use one 20 watt Life-Glo and one 20 watt Flora-Glo. Any suggestions, or opinions would be appreciated. Thanks.

rickztahone
01-27-2009, 04:43 PM
long post, lol. it seems to me that you are doing really well so far. i'm not expert when it comes to plants so your guess is always better than mine, you seem to have a good grasp and understanding of the co2 and such. the only thing i can think of is the water change schedule you have. many here will say to do at least 3 WC's in a week but in your situation i believe you are doing fine. if it ain't broke don't fix it right? from the pictures you can tell they are LFS quality but you already knew that. the first seems to be a pigeon based one. the second maybe a turq, and the 3rd i'm guessing some type of cross, maybe with blue diamond or cobalt. tank looks good IMO. i'm sure the experts can help you a whole lot better than me.

Roxanne
01-27-2009, 04:57 PM
Epic Journey:D Welcome to Simply!:) Always good to have another brain to pick!

Is that mondo grass the regular garden mondo grass type?

Roxanne

Peachtree Discus
01-27-2009, 04:57 PM
wow long. that may be a record :p ....but i am a glutton for punishment (and in the office) so i went back to it.

i dont do plants anymore, so regarding the fish (only)....your regular wc schedule seems good and you're checking ur params on a regular basis. you're right on there. from what i can remember...i would remove the carbon from the filter and look to pick up another 2 or 3 discus. although 5 in a 38g is a little crowded - three is really a bad number

dm6464
01-27-2009, 05:52 PM
Hi Roxanne, As far as I know, yes it is. I know it's terrible but I get my plants from Petsmart. They have the best quality I've been able to find around here. It is sold as 'Mondo Grass'. Take Care.

dm6464
01-29-2009, 12:31 PM
Thanks to all who responded... :)

brewmaster15
01-30-2009, 10:16 AM
HI,
I'd say given all that you have been working with you are doing well enough for the first venture into discus.. I think you could have done better in some areas such as discus selection...which I think you already realize... your tank looks clean..
Substrate is tough to work with juvenile discus..its just so hard to grow them to their best in it with all the feedings it often requires...

The discus you have look like a Red PB, Red Turquoise, and Cobalt blue...best guesses. The PB and cobalt look healthy enough , the red turq looks a bit dark...I read your thoughts on discus numbers in the tank and would advise that instead of 3...try 4... The dynamics tend to be better in 4 or more... Three may work now...but as they get older.. one usually gets beat on.

You also may want to rethink the clown loaches... They can really be a pain to discus at feeding time and with their high activity level...In a big tank its usually okay...I've kept them together before...but in a tank your size.. they may be too much especially as they grow.

Best of luck there and keep up the good work!

-al

captain morgan
01-30-2009, 11:17 AM
Looks like your off to a great start with your tank. Here are a couple of my thoughts regarding what you posted: Get a 4th discus- 3 is a bad number as others already said. Remove the chemzorb from the filter as it will remove some of the ferts your adding for your plants. Your nitrate level of 20 is kinda high for your slow growing plants 5-10 would be better with your low light setup. Set your air pump on a timer so it only comes on at night when lights are off and you will stop loosing c02 gas during the day, your fish should be fine with your Ph controller. P.S. Don't waste any more money on mondo grass it will not survive submersed in a aquarium, makes me mad that petsmart continues to sell it as a aquarium plant when it truly is not,it will only live max. a couple of weeks before it starts to fall apart and die.

dm6464
01-31-2009, 09:59 AM
I've been tempted to get the 4th discus but was concerned about over-crowding the tank. I thought maybe they would be unhappy in a 38g. The pb and the cobalt used to go head to head daily in the beginning and I was concerned; however, they seem to be okay now. The turq and the cobalt now pal around all the time and the pb joins them about half the time. I think the loaches will be an issue too. They are growing fast and they eat way faster than the discus. I do plan on upgrading to a 60g soon though. Would four discus be okay in a 38g, along with the loaches? I'm not worried about the bio load, the XP3 is great, I just thought they would feel crowded.

Does anybody have experience with the vortex diatom filters? I run it over night, once a week and have to oil it after every use or it freezes. The company says it only needs oil once every 3 months which is a joke. I've already sent it back for a new motor and it's the same deal with the new one.

A question about lighting too... I can only find a max of 20 watts in the 24" bulbs. Does anybody know where to find higher wattage bulbs?

Eddie
02-01-2009, 02:29 AM
I've been tempted to get the 4th discus but was concerned about over-crowding the tank. I thought maybe they would be unhappy in a 38g. The pb and the cobalt used to go head to head daily in the beginning and I was concerned; however, they seem to be okay now. The turq and the cobalt now pal around all the time and the pb joins them about half the time. I think the loaches will be an issue too. They are growing fast and they eat way faster than the discus. I do plan on upgrading to a 60g soon though. Would four discus be okay in a 38g, along with the loaches? I'm not worried about the bio load, the XP3 is great, I just thought they would feel crowded.

Does anybody have experience with the vortex diatom filters? I run it over night, once a week and have to oil it after every use or it freezes. The company says it only needs oil once every 3 months which is a joke. I've already sent it back for a new motor and it's the same deal with the new one.

A question about lighting too... I can only find a max of 20 watts in the 24" bulbs. Does anybody know where to find higher wattage bulbs?

Hey there, I think you are fine at the moment with 3. You said they all get along well so 4 may change that up a bit. The rule is generally 10g per discus and you have a large bit of water taken away with that center piece. It's just 3 discus may generally fight alot but so does 4 or 5.

I have never heard of the diatom filter you asked about so I can't help you with that one. Sorry :o

I am assuming you have a standard light fixture? If so, 20 watts is probably the highest you are gonna get. If you want higher watt lighting, you will have to go with a different light fixture. ;)

HTH
Eddie

susantroy1
02-01-2009, 10:10 AM
Does anybody have experience with the vortex diatom filters? I run it over night, once a week and have to oil it after every use or it freezes. The company says it only needs oil once every 3 months which is a joke. I've already sent it back for a new motor and it's the same deal with the new one.

A question about lighting too... I can only find a max of 20 watts in the 24" bulbs. Does anybody know where to find higher wattage bulbs?


I run a Vortex Xl for my display tank 24/7 without a drop of oil in the first 2 years:) I just recently replaced the shaft seal and I oiled it at that time. I change out the DE powder every 3rd day as this is when the flow drops off significantly. Perhaps your letting your filter run to long without adequate flow?? I'm not sure if that has any bearing on your "motor trouble" as these units are not water cooled but may put unnecessary stress on the impeller causing excessive heat. I personally would not be without one.

Your lighting may be restrictive as to what your ballast can handle so insure that your ballast can handle the increase in wattage.

HTH

All The Best

Troy

dm6464
02-03-2009, 01:37 PM
Thanks again everybody, I appreciate it!