Is a DIY Sump Worth the trouble?

[CammieTime]

In setting up a 75 gallon tank, would it be worth it to add a 10 gallon sump to make the total water flow 85 gallons?

For DIY, would you just need platic hose, the 10 gal sump tank and a return water pump? I assume I could just siphon the water from the tank to the sump, since I don't have a drilled tank?

Is this hard to do or worth the trouble?

[CammieTime]

And I guess I would have to add an overflow box.

[Don Trinko]

I do not have a sump and never have. My thinking is that you would be as well off to have an 85g tank as to have a 75 and 10g sump.
The sump does give you a place to put heaters, filters etc to keep them hidden but occasioaly you read abought water on the floor because of a malfunction. All of this IMO; Don T.

[KDodds]

As Don said, external, HOB overflows do have a propensity for failure. In my FW tanks, I've never used sumps. In my marine tanks I do, for many reasons, those stated and then some (dosing, refugia, consistent in-tank water level, etc.).

[Graham]

In setting up a 75 gallon tank, would it be worth it to add a 10 gallon sump to make the total water flow 85 gallons?

For DIY, would you just need plastic hose, the 10 gal sump tank and a return water pump? I assume I could just siphon the water from the tank to the sump, since I don't have a drilled tank?

Is this hard to do or worth the trouble?


Cammie I've used sumps on both fresh and marine for years and find them very efficient both bio wise and mechanical wise.

You would want to use an over flow box or drill the tank to feed the sump. Siphoning while it would would work ; it would fail when there was a power outage. The over flow way allows everything to start back up once electricity comes back on.

You also would not have an additional 10 gallons of water. Sumps generally have no more then enough water to cover the pump. This allows the bio-media to act as a Trickle Tower with much better results than submerged media.

Then polyester can be placed as mechanical and then whatever bio-media you want

here's a basic diagram of the set up

[Don Trinko]

Hi Graham; How do you keep the sump from overflowing if the pump goes out? Also; Does the pump "run out of water" ? Thanks; Don T.

[KDodds]

There must be a break at the tank level to prevent the entire tank from draining. For HOB overflow boxes, they will not drain below the surface skimmer (most designs). For designs that are not using surface skimming, drilling a hole below the water line will cause a siphon break by sucking in air. It's important to have a continuous flow overflow, as well, so that suction/siphon resumes when power returns. As for determining the amount of water that will flow down to the sump (another reason why sumps are not run to full volume capacity), determine the gallons that will drain (tank LxWxDepth of siphon break (all in inches)/231). You will need this much empty space in the sump while the pump is running. I don't know if you allow linking to other forums, otherwise I'd link a more complete and detailed description.

[Graham]

Hi Graham; How do you keep the sump from overflowing if the pump goes out? Also; Does the pump "run out of water" ? Thanks; Don T.

As Dobbs alluded to the return lines and the over flow pipe are situated just below the surface of the water. When a power failure occurs the main tank will back siphon or drain down till either runs out of water. This is why kieron mentions that a sump is never more than 1/2 full.

I use a 33gallon on my 175 when there's a power failure it takes about 25 gallons from the main tank. When power kicks back in it just pumps it all back in and the tank starts to overflow again feeding the sump
.
The overflows etc have to be able to handle what the pump is pushing...the tank can't be oveflowed unless some actually clogged the overflows and that is easily avoided with a bit of mesh



There is nothing very complicated about it what so ever

[Porkchop]

What about the water siphoning back through the output (from the sump) or line that puts the water back into the tank? I know when I unplug my pump that is in my tank that my water ages in, it starts to siphon back the other direction.

Does this make sense?

Anthony

[Graham]

Anthony that's what we're talking about. The return pipe/hose or the over flow can not be very deep into the tank. They will back siphon till they run out of water.

If they are only 1/2'' to 3/4'' under the surface then that's all the water they can back siphon or drain out. The sump has to be large enough to handle that volume of water.

While back flow valves could be used on the input pipe, I wouldn't trust them


G

[Porkchop]

Ah, OK. I'm actually buying a used Wet/Dry this weekend or next and when I went to look at it, I didn't checkout how the return was. It's someone I trust and they had it on a 125 gallon tank with Discus in it so I'm sure everything is good. I've never owned one before so this thread came just in time for my worries. I will be having my 75 gallon on a wood floor and though the floor can handle minor spills here and there, a major one would not be good.

Thanks for clearing that up Graham!

Anthony

[Darrell Ward]

What about the water siphoning back through the output (from the sump) or line that puts the water back into the tank? I know when I unplug my pump that is in my tank that my water ages in, it starts to siphon back the other direction.

Does this make sense?

Anthony

Yes, you are referring to back siphoning. Some people drill an air hole on top of the return to break this siphon when the power is off. I just install a check valve to the main return line coming out of the pump. I've had 4 drilled tanks with built in overflow boxes and DIY sumps running for 4 or 5 years this way without any problems. A sump allows you to have really huge amounts of filtration without having to run multiple filters, and use only one pump. As long as you have enough space in your sump to hold the amount of water in your overflow, and back flow prevention (air hole or check valve) on your return, you can pull the plug anytime on your pump and it won't overflow. I pull the plug every time I do a water change, it's no problem. Sumps make filter maintenance very easy as well. All I have to do to clean the filter is, change a filter sock. I use 7" wide x !6.5" long one micron filter socks as a pre filter, and lots of SeaChem "Pond Matrix" bio media as a bio filter. I also use my sumps to keep extra sponge filters cycled and ready to go when I need them.

[Elite Aquaria]

I like having a DIY sump...here are some pictures in post 49 of my sump/Wet dry system

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=59286&page=4

[Singularity96]

I would avoid those hang on overflow boxes or even anything that works with a syphon, sooner or later something is going to fail and you will end up with wet floors.

If the tank is still empty get someone to drill it for you or do it yourself (lots of video`s about drilling glass on youtube) just make sure that the glassis to be drilled isnt tempered (usually the base), you can do that by phoning the manufacturer.

a Return pump of +/-500g/h should be plenty for the size of your system, i would however suggest a sump of 30G