The utmost best gill fluke cure

[moik]

What is the utmost best way to kill gill flukes...Pound for pound.......As I been here on Simply for awhile, would love to hear everyones input.

[Eddie]

What is the utmost best way to kill gill flukes...Pound for pound.......As I been here on Simply for awhile, would love to hear everyones input.

Although I have never used them, I hear fluke tabs are pretty effective. I still go with PraziPro and it's effective for me.

I must add, never really sure of eradicating them completely but at least holding them down to a number where my discus seem to not be unaffected.

Eddie

[Graham]

I've never tried it on discus but Jansen SupaVerm which is an oral sheep drench for flukes and worms containing closantel and mebendazole works 100% every time on koi. It kills goldfish mind you.


I've heard of one person on BIDKA mention using it with success. Maybe Paul can expand on it's use with Discus

This chem is sold in the UK but imported by the koi hobby....cheap and a little bit will do.

G

[moik]

Thanks for the replies. I have seen some conflicting replies on some posts with variuos problems. Just curious to hear what is todays best cure for this old age problem. Graham, I would love to hear more on your approach to this. Prazi-pro, formalin, fluke tabs, which one is a better overall kill rate and least amount of negative factors also.

[Eddie]

I've never tried it on discus but Jansen SupaVerm which is an oral sheep drench for flukes and worms containing closantel and mebendazole works 100% every time on koi. It kills goldfish mind you.


I've heard of one person on BIDKA mention using it with success. Maybe Paul can expand on it's use with Discus

This chem is sold in the UK but imported by the koi hobby....cheap and a little bit will do.

G

Sounds like something that could be tested on my stunted (hero) fish if they ever come down with an overwhelming fluke infestation. I would like to try it if I could get some of the stuff.

Eddie

[pcsb23]

I've heard of one person on BIDKA mention using it with success. Maybe Paul can expand on it's use with DiscusI've never used it G so don't have any experience to draw on here. There are conflicting reports about the dosage too.

[Graham]

Eddie contact any of the koi breeders or major dealers, You shouldn't have a problem getting it. All the japanese breeders use it on thier koi.

[Graham]

I've never used it G so don't have any experience to draw on here. There are conflicting reports about the dosage too.''

Paul I forget who mentioned it on BIDKA and the dose they used.

For koi it's 1ml per 100gals

G


EDIT the discussion on SV is here on BIDKA

http://forum.bidka.org/showthread.php?t=273&highlight=SuperVerm&page=4

[Eddie]

Eddie contact any of the koi breeders or major dealers, You shouldn't have a problem getting it. All the japanese breeders use it on thier koi.

Thanks Graham, I didn't even think about that. Definitely a lot of koi dealers/keepers in Okinawa.

Thanks
Eddie

[MostlyDiscus]

I rotate between Prazi, PP and formalin. I use one of them at least once a month weather they need it or not due to large numbers of fish in one tank. I prefer potassium promagnte though, Like any med it should be respected.

Ed

[moik]

I have tried prazi and formalin in the past, but PP I steer away from.For fear of overdosing. What is the recommended dosing for PP? Prazi and formalin with good results ,but not any real exceptional kill rates. Would like to fgure out how to knock them back with out the thought of a reoccurring issue.Maybe I am just being to hopefull for a cure to this long on going topic . I am putting more effort into the disease end of the hooby to better educate and understand these diseases to further my knowledge. A microscope is definitly becoming an issue to have to explore these issues as a whole.

[Eddie]

I have tried prazi and formalin in the past, but PP I steer away from.For fear of overdosing. What is the recommended dosing for PP? Prazi and formalin with good results ,but not any real exceptional kill rates. Would like to fgure out how to knock them back with out the thought of a reoccurring issue.Maybe I am just being to hopefull for a cure to this long on going topic . I am putting more effort into the disease end of the hooby to better educate and understand these diseases to further my knowledge. A microscope is definitly becoming an issue to have to explore these issues as a whole.


I actually read somewhere that PP did little to nothing for flukes.

I know what you mean Moik about the scope, I am getting one also since it does take all the guess work out.

For PraziPro I do a 21 day treatment, treating 3 days on 4 days off for 3 weeks. Doing this would obviously get old for a monthly treatment so I do it quarterly and only if there is any symptoms.

Eddie

[Eddie]

I rotate between Prazi, PP and formalin. I use one of them at least once a month weather they need it or not due to large numbers of fish in one tank. I prefer potassium promagnte though, Like any med it should be respected.

Ed

Hey Ed, do you normally use a short or extended bath for PP treatment?

Thanks

[moik]

I would love to hear more about this Supaverm for flukes..Looks very promising. Is it avaliable in the USA? Could it be in the USA under another name?

[kaceyo]

Actually PP kills flukes very well. The problem is you can't do an ongoing treatment with it, which you need to do with flukes, because it will damage the fish's gills if used too frequently.
Prazi works well for a bad case of flukes, but you need to do a 21 day treatment. Also some fluke strains have developed a resistance to prazi. I use prazi on a three day repetative cycle. Day 1 50% wc and full dose, Day 2 50% wc and 1/2 dose, day 3 50% wc and no dose. Repeat this 3 day cycle for 21 days.
I've never used formalin for long term flukes treatments but IME it works well for ridding fry of flukes in a couple of doses.
Unfortunetly Supaverm is supposedly very unpredictable on discus. It works well one time and kills the discus the next. If anyone decides to test it out I'd love to hear the results.

Kacey

[Graham]

Ed Most major koi dealers will have it and IF you try it, only buy it from a very reputable one. The chem has to be mixed really well when portioned up and it has to be mixed very well before use. This may be why the mixed results that Kacey mentioned

Other than the link I post to the UK thread I have no idea of a dose for discus.

It would take one of the breeders with lots of fish to nail down the correct dosage

[Eddie]

Actually PP kills flukes very well. The problem is you can't do an ongoing treatment with it, which you need to do with flukes, because it will damage the fish's gills if used too frequently.
Prazi works well for a bad case of flukes, but you need to do a 21 day treatment. Also some fluke strains have developed a resistance to prazi. I use prazi on a three day repetative cycle. Day 1 50% wc and full dose, Day 2 50% wc and 1/2 dose, day 3 50% wc and no dose. Repeat this 3 day cycle for 21 days.
I've never used formalin for long term flukes treatments but IME it works well for ridding fry of flukes in a couple of doses.
Unfortunetly Supaverm is supposedly very unpredictable on discus. It works well one time and kills the discus the next. If anyone decides to test it out I'd love to hear the results.

Kacey


Hey Kacey,

Thats what I read about PP and also read that only short baths are effective as extended is too hard to control the correct amount needed to kill flukes.

I do a similar PraziPro treatment as you accept I do a full dose after the 50% daily WC during the 3 days on.

I have a tank of stunted discus that are my hero discus that I would like to try Supaverm on when I can acquire it. Obviously I would have to wait until they get gill flukes and even then I would need to scope them to gaurantee it's effectiveness. :o

Eddie

[Graham]

Eddie there's no question that SV kills flukes, both gill and skin and does it very well...then question is whether it'll kill the fish or not

[Eddie]

Eddie there's no question that SV kills flukes, both gill and skin and does it very well...then question is whether it'll kill the fish or not

No Graham, I believe you that Supaverm is effective on gill flukes. I would just need to verify that my fish have gill flukes first so I don't shoot the wrong foot. :D

Eddie

[kaceyo]

Hey Eddie,
With PP the articles always named overdosing as the reason for the deaths. Nothing was ever pinned down as a reason for the mixed results with Supaverm, so it could be anything. I'd think that the company that distributes it to the aquarium hobby would have tested it on discus to widen their target customer base but you never know.
Many people would be interested in using it on discus if it could be done safely. Keep us posted if you get a chance to try it.

Kacey

Hey Kacey,

Thats what I read about PP and also read that only short baths are effective as extended is too hard to control the correct amount needed to kill flukes.

I do a similar PraziPro treatment as you accept I do a full dose after the 50% daily WC during the 3 days on.

I have a tank of stunted discus that are my hero discus that I would like to try Supaverm on when I can acquire it. Obviously I would have to wait until they get gill flukes and even then I would need to scope them to gaurantee it's effectiveness. :o

Eddie

[Eddie]

Hey Eddie,
With PP the articles always named overdosing as the reason for the deaths. Nothing was ever pinned down as a reason for the mixed results with Supaverm, so it could be anything. I'd think that the company that distributes it to the aquarium hobby would have tested it on discus to widen their target customer base but you never know.
Many people would be interested in using it on discus if it could be done safely. Keep us posted if you get a chance to try it.

Kacey

Will do Kacey, the other thing to think about is the treatment schedule. I understand the dosage but is it a single dose, 3 days on...1 week.

I'll have to do a search on BIDKA.

Eddie

[moik]

I just put Supaverm in googgle and it is avaliable in the USA.. My only question is, If these suppliers are dividing larger bottles down to smaller retail sizes. Being the product has to be very well sahaken to get all the chemical in a even dosing state for use. What happens if they do not pay attention to that when they are making the smaller dose bottles? or should you buy the actual bottle that was created in the manufacturers lab? Just a lot of chances it sounds like with med.

[Graham]

And that why I said from reputable dealers only. Legally SV can't be used in North America. It's not aproved for Vet use in any way in NA.

The product only comes in 1 litre containers out of the UK for about a $175CDN

You would be safe ordering out of here.

https://www.pondrx.com/products/16147.html

[moik]

That is the exact site I seen it for sale. 100mg for $32.99. Going to contact them and see their opinions of it with discus. It did not look like a bottle from the manufacturers lab, I could be though.

[Wahter]

I don't know about SV, but keep in mind that most of the meds (like Prazi) have to be used more than once because they don't kill the eggs of flukes. So they are only vulnerable in the adult stage.


Walter

[Graham]

That is the exact site I seen it for sale. 100mg for $32.99. Going to contact them and see their opinions of it with discus. It did not look like a bottle from the manufacturers lab, I could be though.

They divide up large containers of it

[moik]

If and when I would need this in the future, I will try this.. Hopefully someone in the discus world has some reliable dosing avaliable by then..I will get it at the site you shown. Seems like a good option for its intended purpose.

[kaceyo]

I don't know about SV, but keep in mind that most of the meds (like Prazi) have to be used more than once because they don't kill the eggs of flukes. So they are only vulnerable in the adult stage.


Walter

Hi Walter,
That's what is supposed to set Supaverm apart from the other meds listed. It is a one time dose and still eradicates all flukes on koi without followup treatments.

Kacey

[shawnhu]

I rotate between Prazi, PP and formalin. I use one of them at least once a month weather they need it or not due to large numbers of fish in one tank. I prefer potassium promagnte though, Like any med it should be respected.

Ed

Ed,

PP is readily available in VA? I can't seem to source out a cheap option for it here in NY. Would you mind sharing your source, and price?

[moik]

Post 23 in this thread. Graham put a link to store that does sell it. I have seen PP on their site too.

[rushmorediscus]

I've had exceptionally good luck with Fluke Tabs, especially with juvies and older fry. It clears up flukes within 2-3 days every time, and seems to have a minimal effect on the fish in terms of stress. The fish's colors will flush and they often become a little skiddish for a day or two, but other than that it's business as usual.

Haven't had much luck with potassium permangenate. It always seems to burn the fish so bad I have to quit the treatment, even at low doses. I think it burns them too fast to be effective at diminishing the fluke numbers. I've always found several fish laying on their sides the morning after dosing every time I've used it. Haven't lost one from it, but they certainly don't seem to like the stuff. Remember, PP is a strong oxidizer, so use with caution if decide to go that route.

[MostlyDiscus]

WCs and low density of fish population will hopefully keep anyone from having to use meds. I first started using PP and yes I burned some fish. I have done worse things that if I printed here the tree huggers would have me kicked off. TG for the pm. PP works great for flukes. The key is a prolonged bath in a light pink solution. If you have high organics then your water will turn amber quickly. Put in some hydrogen peroxide do your wc and wait till the next day to retreat. Keep your feedings down to a min as to reduce organics. Keep and eye on your fish during the process. I can tell you that when I clean my system, ie sponges,glass,pipes,bulk fittings and then do a PP treatment that I have been able to get a 98 percent hatch rate with certain pairs. I believe that fertility of a pair depends on strain and health of the pair as well. People can get all the info they want on whatever medication but IMO it takes time and exp to get a good feel for what your doing. I agree with Eddie in that having fish to test with is a big advantage. Most people would disagree with that but ok. To each his/her own I guess.

[MostlyDiscus]

BTW, I buy oxy clear from John at Jehmco and use that at 1/4 str. I believe the cost is less than twenty dollars.

Ed

[Eddie]

WCs and low density of fish population will hopefully keep anyone from having to use meds. I first started using PP and yes I burned some fish. I have done worse things that if I printed here the tree huggers would have me kicked off. TG for the pm. PP works great for flukes. The key is a prolonged bath in a light pink solution. If you have high organics then your water will turn amber quickly. Put in some hydrogen peroxide do your wc and wait till the next day to retreat. Keep your feedings down to a min as to reduce organics. Keep and eye on your fish during the process. I can tell you that when I clean my system, ie sponges,glass,pipes,bulk fittings and then do a PP treatment that I have been able to get a 98 percent hatch rate with certain pairs. I believe that fertility of a pair depends on strain and health of the pair as well. People can get all the info they want on whatever medication but IMO it takes time and exp to get a good feel for what your doing. I agree with Eddie in that having fish to test with is a big advantage. Most people would disagree with that but ok. To each his/her own I guess.

;)