Gill flukes

[bavaria36]

I have some new Heckels which are flashing occasionally. I also see one or two of them clamp one gill sometimes but an hour later they could be normal again. The fish are eating fine, not hiding and all have solid,dark faeces. I don't think there's anything serious going on but I wanted to clear this up.

I diagnosed gill flukes and started a Prazipro treatment. Problem is that after 6 days ( I did a 3 day cycle) nothing has changed. If the problem was flukes should they not have been killed with the very first dose ? Should I continue the PraziPro treatment or try FMG ?

The fish are in a 120 gallon tank that gets a 50% WC daily. Filters are mature and all the water parameters are fine - no NH3, no NO2 and according to the test strips I am using no NO3 either.

Aaron

[Roxanne]

Hi Aaron

You willl need to finish the treatment you started as flukes can be present at different stages of development and the repeat dosage ensures you catch them at those different stages...I treated for flukes and still scoped them all the time during treatment so finish the treatment and then re evaluate as you may need a follow up treatment to catch the "rogues"


Cheers

Roxanne

[ShinShin]

Treat with FlukeTabs as directions state. The discus will appear stressed, by dylox wipes flukes out. I've used them full strength on 3 week old fry full strength. Do not use 1/2 dosage as some suggest.

Mat

[Roxanne]

...sorry, that was my bad interpretation, I thought you were in the middle of treating with PraziPro and were looking at repeating treatment...if Larry says it's ok to use the other stuff, I'd do that...

[Roxanne]

Treat with FlukeTabs as directions state... Do not use 1/2 dosage as some suggest.

Mat

Maybe that explains why I've heard mixed success with the fluke tabs....not strong enough dose?

Rox

[bavaria36]

...sorry, that was my bad interpretation, I thought you were in the middle of treating with PraziPro and were looking at repeating treatment...if Larry says it's ok to use the other stuff, I'd do that...

You are correct. I am in the middle of a 21 day treatment with Prazipro. I know that the main reason for the 21 treatment is to get the eggs that may be present on the fish and will hatch during the course of the treatment.

However I assumed that after 6 days the main fluke population would be gone so the fish would not display any symptoms.

I will finish off the Prazipro course. If that does not work then I will try the Fluke Tabs.

The PraziPro does not seem to be bothering the fish at all. That's why I like it.

Aaron

[bavaria36]

Treat with FlukeTabs as directions state. The discus will appear stressed, by dylox wipes flukes out. I've used them full strength on 3 week old fry full strength. Do not use 1/2 dosage as some suggest.

Mat

Larry,

thks for the advice. I will try and get some ready and if the Prazipro does not work I will use them.

My biggest concern was that maybe I had misdiagnosed and should be treating for something else.

Aaron

[ShinShin]

There's nothing wrong with treating flukes with PraziPro. I have heard that the directions on the container aren't large enough dosage. Can't say if that is accurate or not. People shy from FlukeTabs. Dylox is strong stuff. It will make you discus a little jumpy. I never had any adverse effects from it on my fish following the directions on the container. Like I said, 3 week old fry weren't damaged at full strength.

Mat

[scottthomas]

I have had good luck treating flukes with PraziPro. I used 1.5 X dosage on bottle as per instructions from a breeder I talked with. However, I did have one fish that was very sensitive to PraziPro.

Scott

[bavaria36]

There's nothing wrong with treating flukes with PraziPro. I have heard that the directions on the container aren't large enough dosage. Can't say if that is accurate or not. People shy from FlukeTabs. Dylox is strong stuff. It will make you discus a little jumpy. I never had any adverse effects from it on my fish following the directions on the container. Like I said, 3 week old fry weren't damaged at full strength.

Mat

Mat,

the PraziPro instructions are definitely way off ( assuming that a 21 day cycle is the right way to do it ) from what is generally recommended. I have a bottle of the Hikari Prazipro and the instructions say " a single treatment lasting 5-7 days ". I have now done over 6 treatments ( if you count one treatment as a full dose application ) and the flukes are obviously still there.

Maybe I should up the dosage as you and Scott both recommend

Aaron

[Eddie]

Aaron,

This is what I find to be effective.

Dose 3 days on and 4 days off.
Day 1 50% WC and full dose
Day 2 50% WC and full dose
Day 3 50% WC and full dose

Days 4-7 50% WCs everyday

I repeat this process for 3 weeks and never had another outbreak.

Also, my tanks are BB. I know your main tank has sand and plants. You may benefit from doing a 1.5 to 2X the recommended dose. I have used twice the recommended dose with no adverse affects and I have also read in other forums where some hobbyists used 4X the recommended dose. I haven't gone down that road since my issues were eliminated with my treatment routine.

HTH
Eddie

[bavaria36]

Thks Eddie,

in fact I was using your 21 day system ( found it in another thread ).

Do you find that the find that the flukes still affected the fish halfway through the cycle ?

I will up the dose starting today. I do have sand and a couple of plants ( small anubias tied to the wood ) so this could be reducing the dose effectiveness.

Aaron

[Eddie]

Thks Eddie,

in fact I was using your 21 day system ( found it in another thread ).

Do you find that the find that the flukes still affected the fish halfway through the cycle ?

I will up the dose starting today. I do have sand and a couple of plants ( small anubias tied to the wood ) so this could be reducing the dose effectiveness.

Aaron

Sometimes, yes. Reason being is that some the eggs could have hatched right on the days you are not dosing. This will allow the next round of treatment to kill them since they are hatched. If you complete the 21 day treatment and still have symptoms, I'd go with Mats suggestion as I have not been stumped by a stubborn case of flukes.

Eddie

[calihawker]

Hey.
I thought I'd move my same questions and comments over to this thread. I'm treating a 300 gallon tank with Prazipro. Eddie, thanks for clarifying the exact regimen here. I managed to find only a 4oz. bottle locally so I did a treatment yesterday and when I get the big bottle on wednesday I'll do the whole 3 week thing.

Is it possible for the fish to show signs of improvment after just one day of treatment? This morning they are bright, active and eating like normal. Still flashing and rubbing but boy do they act different today:D


Good luck with yours Aaron


Steve

[Roxanne]

Hi Cali:)

IME I think it is, even though I thought I was imagining it too, it must give some fast relief especially if they are really irritated...that may be why some people stop treatment early because they see improvement, only to have to repeat treatment...but, I have scoped intermediate sized flukes still swimmming around even during/after treatment...

Rox

[Eddie]

Hey.
I thought I'd move my same questions and comments over to this thread. I'm treating a 300 gallon tank with Prazipro. Eddie, thanks for clarifying the exact regimen here. I managed to find only a 4oz. bottle locally so I did a treatment yesterday and when I get the big bottle on wednesday I'll do the whole 3 week thing.

Is it possible for the fish to show signs of improvment after just one day of treatment? This morning they are bright, active and eating like normal. Still flashing and rubbing but boy do they act different today:D


Good luck with yours Aaron


Steve

Definitely Steve, they can improve quickly depending on how bad the fluke infestation was. A little rubbing and scratching could mean a small amount of flukes were in tank. Glad your fish are doing well!

Eddie

[Roxanne]

..could mean a small amount of flukes were in tank. .

IME I think they reproduce too fast for there to ever be a 'small' amount...;)

[Eddie]

Well there has to be starting point, there won't ever just be a billion in the tank all of a sudden. They do lay eggs and the eggs need time to hatch so the life cycle is a constant progression. Up until we knock them out. ;)
Eddie

[Roxanne]

well, Eddie,Take a look down a microscope at the filthy little suckers.....

In the definitive host, in which sexual reproduction occurs, eggs are commonly shed along with host feces. Eggs shed in water release free-swimming larval forms that are infective to the intermediate host, in which asexual reproduction occurs.

[TankWatcher]

So a lot of ppl need to 1.5 to 2X the recommended dose of prazi for flukes? Maybe that is why I hear that flukes isn't being successfully treated by prazi by a lot of hobbyist that I speak with on-line.

Next time I dose with prazi, it will give that a try.

[Eddie]

So a lot of ppl need to 1.5 to 2X the recommended dose of prazi for flukes? Maybe that is why I hear that flukes isn't being successfully treated by prazi by a lot of hobbyist that I speak with on-line.

Next time I dose with prazi, it will give that a try.

Hi Robyn, could also be that using the extra bit is the reason the flukes have built a resistance. Kind of a lose lose situation. You dose the recommended dose to kill them but they are stronger so we have to dose more. They build a resistance and we need to add more. In all, we just keep building this super fluke. ;)

Eddie

[calihawker]

I use Droncit which I believe is the same as Prazi as a preventative on my birds for flukes and worms. Is there a preventative regimen that can be used in the tank say like every 6 months or something? Or like Eddie says, are the flukes going to build up a tolerance to it?


Steve

[Roxanne]

IME if you can eliminate them and not re introduce them via new fish, you won't need to keep doing it...:)...eliminating them requires vigilence because their numbers increase so fast..hence repeat doses..Good Luck:balloon:

[Roxanne]

afterthought...if you want to talk preventative, personally, I will be treating for flukes as a matter of course when I get new fish in future...

Rox

[calihawker]

afterthought...if you want to talk preventative, personally, I will be treating for flukes as a matter of course when I get new fish in future...

Rox

Yes, I hadn't thought of that. It's much easier (and cheaper) to do preventative on the QT with new fish.


Steve

[bavaria36]

An update on my original gill fluke problem.

I did complete a full 3 week course of Prazipro but it seemed to have no effect. the only thing I can say is that it is not hard on the fish and they never seemed to notice the meds in the water. But in the end a non result.


I then decided to try fluke tabs. I was warned that this was heavy stuff and it really is !!

I dosed exactly as per the instructions in the main 120 gallon tank. By the next day the fish ( 11 heckels and 12 cories ) had all turned ghostly pale. I've never seen anything like it. The fish huddled together and were obviously affected by the meds. I found both bristlenoses dead under the wood the next morning.

Anyhow, I started the WC's a day or so later and the fish were back to normal after a couple of days. The flashing seems to have stopped so I think it worked. I know that I need to repeat the medication at least once to get the eggs but frankly I am a little nervous about using this stuff again. I will observe the fish for another week or so before deciding on a repeat dose.

Aaron

[Eddie]

Yup Aaron, I have given up on PraziPro too. I also ended up using a product by AP. It's called Anti-Fluke Life Bearer and it has the exact same stuff that is in fluke tabs. It worked magic on my fish but as you said, the fish took it ROUGH. I was recommended to keep the tank temp low also, less than 80F. I had to re-dose again and probably will once or twice every week for 4 weeks.

The best part about Anti-Fluke is that it is DIRT cheap, not like PraziPro.

I don't like how my fish react to the chemical in it either. The eyes turn totally black...or white and they lose all color. The other thing is that several fish would go off their food, which I did not like at all.

Eddie

[cschwaderer]

Yup Aaron, I have given up on PraziPro too. I also ended up using a product by AP. It's called Anti-Fluke Life Bearer and it has the exact same stuff that is in fluke tabs. It worked magic on my fish but as you said, the fish took it ROUGH. I was recommended to keep the tank temp low also, less than 80F. I had to re-dose again and probably will once or twice every week for 4 weeks.

The best part about Anti-Fluke is that it is DIRT cheap, not like PraziPro.

I don't like how my fish react to the chemical in it either. The eyes turn totally black...or white and they lose all color. The other thing is that several fish would go off their food, which I did not like at all.

Eddie


On the Anti-Fluke, did you dose per the instructions or increase or lessen the doses?

[Eddie]

On the Anti-Fluke, did you dose per the instructions or increase or lessen the doses?

Per instructions, but I do daily 100% WCs so it's tricky. I dosed 2 days on and stopped. On the 4th day the fish were again rubbing so I did 2 days on again. At the moment, I have not had to re-dose again but I will after another day or so.


Eddie