anarobic bacteria stirred up by leeches.

[crystalview]

Once a few months ago I lost several com fish for what I thought was no reason. I had the adult leeches die off but they had never been free swimmers. I never put two and two together. This time after my normal 50% water change I noticed a few hours later the leeches swimming freely. Then More and more showed up. The water got cloudy and all the fish were at the top gasping for air. I did another water change and vac. I had to put the discus back they were to big to stay in the bucket. They sunk straight to the bottom and are dieing. I think some of the other fish are not going to make it either in qt.

My son who is gone now started this tank for me almost two years ago. It helped me stay positive during my cancer. He got me this pair of discus from someone who had six of them in a 10g tank. These are the only two that survived. They are both deformed and the male is 5" and the female is 7". They layed eggs every other week. They eat their eggs which (mostly) is ok since I did not want to breed them. There are already to many fish on the market that have been breed badly. My husband I stay at home a lot so the tank has become our enjoymeant. Oh well I got off track sorry. I wish discus weren't so costly to replace.

The Leeches must go. I had been doing some reading that Fluke tab should kill them and the tabs where not suppose to kill my fish. Now I will use the tabs any way since there are no fish in there just plants I have enclosed the leech from eggs to adults in pics below. All my boards new nothing about them.


http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t257/crystalview_photo/bugoreggs.jpg

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t257/crystalview_photo/wormseggs.jpg

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t257/crystalview_photo/leech.jpg

[Roxanne]

Hi, I'm confused, did you put the leeches in there or did they appear? Looks like they 've been hiding in your filter... they like slow moving water and hang out in dark areas....they are a parasite & inject an anti coagulant then suck the blood of their hosts and they can go a year or more without eating...do you use water conditioner?

roxanne

[KDodds]

Bad or not, I would not blame the leeches for what happened. What you are describing sounds more like the leeches were trying to get away from the same thing that was harming the fish. For this to happen so rapidly, there must have been a massive change for the worse, which, since it followed the WC, is likely to have come from there. Since it was the WC that was the immediate precursor to such a rapid devastation, there are limits as to what it could be. Chlorine or chloramine sound like the most likely culprits and would produce more or less exactly what you describe. Other possibilities are organophosphates and/or nitrogenous compounds and/or large amounts of potassium that you might see due to agricultural run off. I know out west there are several localities where this is a problem this very time of year, and many people in those localities either forego WCs temporarily or use RO units. Sorry to hear about your fish, but it's doubtful the leeches caused what happened.

[Roxanne]

Sorry K I edited over you speaking....I was wondering if not enough conditioner caused them to come out of their hiding place and then also the cloud in the tank...
rox

[Roxanne]

....K, is it another possiblity that the leaches have been sucking the discus' blood, and then if after the water change there was a nitrite surge, which affects their blood cells, it caused them to suffocate sooner?.....just thinkin' of another scenario if she didn't forget to condition the water/the towns water has been ok...

Rox

[plecocicho]

Holly cow! Thats a lot of leeches. Could you describe your tank a little more : volume, filtration, lightning, any plants, water parameters? Leeches do live in more organically poluted waters. Not all are bloodsucking, but your look like that. From where did you get them? So much organic food, that you would actually experience anoxic conditions would come only if you feed large amunts of food or very poor filtration and not enough wcs.

[KDodds]

I suppose it's possible, low pulse-ox. But, I would think that a problem THAT severe would have been noticed prior to the water change.

[crystalview]

These leeches have never been seen sucking on the fish. I think they are plant leeches. I have no idea how or where I got them.
I tested the water before I did the WC and it was 0, 0,4+-
After they died I checked again and everything is the same. I usually vac the tank with a Magnum hot shot micro filter to get as much junk as I can once a month. When I do the WC weekly I just do a light vac to the surface. I can't explain what happened. The WC was done just as I have always done for 2yrs. We live in the mountains and our town own it's own dam. We get reports monthly on what is in the water. I had read some where about anaerobic bacteria so I guessed that's what might of happened. I have not stirred up the substrate yet to see if any leeches are still alive.
Nor do I know what I should do about the tank. Start over sterilize everything or just treat the leeches with fluke tabs and try to save the good bacteria.
Man I miss my fish!

[Roxanne]

how sad that you should go through this........so there's no fish in the tank now, or you still got discus in there? The freshwater leaches can live without a meal for over a year, and they hang out in the murky depths until vibrations alert them to...a meal..the freshwater leeches are blood suckers as opposed to other types of leeches..


Roxanne


EDIT: http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/disease/leeches.php

[William Palumbo]

I would not put my hand or arms in there!...Maybe some Chlorox...Bill

[crystalview]

I lost both Discus. You don't know how much enjoyment you are getting from the until they are gone. We had our coffee and could not watch their antics. They went through the mating dance often. They were not good parents but fun to watch. We hardly leave the house so It is going to be hard to watch just a planted tank. All that are left are 4 nerites and one very young oto.

The article you gave me said the leeches are heart shape most of the time, these aren't they are mostly stretched out over an inch and when stretched they have a flat body with the sucker mouth. I treated the tank today with Fluke tabs because there are still free swimmers. Did not have a place for the plants right now so I left them in.

[Roxanne]

sorry for your loss:(....the freshwater leeches can lay their eggs and stuff on plants but they only suck blood for food....other salty types live off plants, snails but they are not the same...did you have the plants before the discus or get the plants after you got your discus?..did you aquire your plants or aquarium rocks/whatever from a stream/pond?

Rox

[crystalview]

I quess I miss understood what anarobic bacteria was. This 45g with fluval 304 nano powerhead, understocked, Not a lot of build up in substrate do not
over feed, water kept pristine. Lighting is a 98w T5 raised on 8hrs. Several plants and wood.


Holly cow! Thats a lot of leeches. Could you describe your tank a little more : volume, filtration, lightning, any plants, water parameters? Leeches do live in more organically poluted waters. Not all are bloodsucking, but your look like that. From where did you get them? So much organic food, that you would actually experience anoxic conditions would come only if you feed large amunts of food or very poor filtration and not enough wcs.

[crystalview]

I look at the plants wood often and this last week was the first time I saw eggs. I usually treat my plants with alum and Potassium permanganate. The one time I didn't this is what I got. These plants came from a guy in Florida and I was sick. I learned my lesson the hard way. The discus I had before that batch of plants. If they crawled close to their eggs the pair would poke at them to dislodge it. Over the time I had them I only saw them when I did a deep vac. Or once a month or so when the adult would come up to die. I would see the babies a few hundred at a time. I only had them come up like they did in the picture once.

[KDodds]

If there's nothing left alive in the tank, a good break down and cleaning with a water bleach solution should have things all cleaned out for your next go around. You might want to ask around here about people's culls, they might be willing to let go of some for you.

[pcsb23]

I merged the two threads 'cos it seemed a good ide :o

I'm sorry about the probs you are having due to leeches. Although I have never had any leeches in my tanks, and hope I never do, they should be eliminated by whatever means necessary imo.

[crystalview]

I need to explain. I am a cancer patient and I use my tank to hold me together. My husband watches me like a hawk. I forget what I am doing or now I forget what I did.
He said that I added a first does of fluke tabs, after the water change. So I blame the fluke tabs and water companies increased PH. My husband is helping me set my tank back up. The fluke tabs killed some of the leeches and then I got mad and poured bleach in. So I am just starting to cycle today. He used a micro hot shot to vac the gavel many times. Got about a cup Leeches (dead). The plants we soaked a couple of hours in PP. I got an used filter sponge from a friend to speed things along.
Have to wait to get things cycled.
I will want Discus back.

[Roxanne]

Sometimes we all get a little trouble with our tanks, and it can be stressful especially when they are supposed to be a destressor;)so don't you worry crystal, yours will get back on track and you can again enjoy you fish.

You have friends and support here on Simply who will be there to help you with it.

Keep the faith for us all ok?

Roxanne