Bloat after Metro???

[Yassmeena]

Hey everyone,

You may remember that one of my discus stopped eating and had white stringy poop. I finished a 10-day metro treatment at 92F on Saturday.

Since friday the discus has been bloated - at least it seems like bloat because his belly area is protruded. I am not sure what to do...

I have been adding epsom salt for 4 days now, no result. However, the fish did finally start eating (first time in 3 weeks) upon the first treatment with Epsom salt.

For now, the temp is still at 92 F, and I am still adding epsom. The fish seems to eat a little more each day, although it's appetite is not as strong as it was pre-illness.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Yasmin

[waters10]

I'm no expert by any means, but I remember reading that bloated with no results after epsom salt, could mean bacteria infection. I bought kanamycin just for these cases, but never had to use it.

Wait for someone more experienced to chime in before doing anything though.

[Al M.]

First of all bring that temp. slowly back to normal 84 or so, if its bacterial witch it sounds like high heat will only make it worse.....you can go with Kanamycin or Oxy tetracycline ....

[Yassmeena]

First of all bring that temp. slowly back to normal 84 or so, if its bacterial witch it sounds like high heat will only make it worse.....you can go with Kanamycin or Oxy tetracycline ....

What exactly makes it sound bacterial out of curiosity?

EDIT: btw I don't have Kanamycyn, but would Furan II be just as good? I have that...

[waters10]

What exactly makes it sound bacterial out of curiosity?

EDIT: btw I don't have Kanamycyn, but would Furan II be just as good? I have that...
The reason I mentioned bacteria, is based on searches I did here. It might be a good idea to take a picture and post here. How bloated is the discus? I remember reading threads with pictures of discus that were extremely bloated, and they got cured by anti-biotics injections ... Not saying it's your case, but I think a picture might help.

[Eddie]

Hey Yas,

Sometimes the flagellates end up dying in the intestines and causing a bacteria infection. If you say the fish eats a little I wish you could get some of the Kanamycin flake from AngelPlus. That would be a golden ticket for sure.

I'm not sure about Furan2, never tried it but I will take a look.

Eddie

[above design]

Hi,

Maracyn 2 will also work for a bacterial infection, at least it did for me:). You can get that at most pet stores, although it is expensive!

Good luck,

Mark

[waters10]

Hi,

Maracyn 2 will also work for a bacterial infection, at least it did for me:). You can get that at most pet stores, although it is expensive!

Good luck,

Mark
More expensive than kanamycyn? I ordered it from Jehmco. When I saw that they had "call for price" on their website, I knew my wallet was going to cry ...

[above design]

More expensive than kanamycyn? I ordered it from Jehmco. When I saw that they had "call for price" on their website, I knew my wallet was going to cry ...


I don't know what Kanamycyn cost, but the Maracyn 2 cost me about fifteen bucks and I got enough to treat a 20gallon tank for 12 days. How much does the Kanamycin run if you don't mind me asking?

- Mark

[waters10]

I don't know what Kanamycyn cost, but the Maracyn 2 cost me about fifteen bucks and I got enough to treat a 20gallon tank for 12 days. How much does the Kanamycin run if you don't mind me asking?

- Mark
I believe I paid about $45 for the 100 grams pack. Somewhere around that. I'm not at home, so I don't know the dosage. 15 to treat 20 gallons is A LOT!

[Eddie]

I paid like 8 bucks for the kana flake from AngelPlus. :p LOL


Eddie

[Eddie]

My mistake....7 bucks!

http://www.angelsplus.com/FlakeMedicated.htm


Super fast shipping too, even to Japan.

Eddie

[Yassmeena]

My mistake....7 bucks!

http://www.angelsplus.com/FlakeMedicated.htm


Super fast shipping too, even to Japan.

Eddie

The flake sounds nice, the problem is that he won't eat anything right now except FBWs. He just looks at the flakes when I throw them in...

Has anyone used Furan 2? It would be much more time efficient since I have it on me. I will be travelling for 5 days this Sat, so am eager to start the treatment ASAP (like tonight!). :D

However, in the event that Furan 2 won't work it seems I will need to order Kanamycin. Where can I get it, how should I dose it and how much should I buy for 55 gallons?

Thanks, and sorry for the million questions! :D

EDIT: I found this product, Kanaplex, online. It says to dose every 2 days for a max of 3 doses. Would this do - (AGAIN: only in event that Furan 2 won't work)?

http://www.aquariumguys.com/kanaplex2oz.html

[Eddie]

Kanaplex will work Yas

[Yassmeena]

Kanaplex will work Yas

Ok - I'll order it then... I guess I'll be teaching someone at home to dose my tank while I'm away... :p

Thanks Eddie - again! i had misread your last post btw, and thought you had said "kanamycin works."

So you have tried Kanaplex then - that's reassuring!

[CARY_GLdiscus]

Cull it!

its much to late IMO and why a 10 day metro treatment? CRAZY!

[Yassmeena]

Cull it!

its much to late IMO and why a 10 day metro treatment? CRAZY!

10 days seems like a lot, but after searches on Simply it seems like many people treated for that long. I think it worked because there are clear signs of improvement in the guy who was sick.

I guess this is a common post-treatment effect because it seems like others have experienced this too.

I'm going to try the kanamycin. I really like this discus - he's a eruption leopard from Kenny. I would be sad to see him go, and don't think I could kill him unless he seemed to be at the bitter end.

For now his schooling, color and temperament are normal. He's eating again. I would say things seem to be going in the right direction.

How do you know when the right time to kill a discus is Cary?

[Eddie]

Yas,

Don't cull the fish. It's a little different when you have a group of six than when you have a group of probably a thousand. It can be hard to let the fish go when you haven't tried everything. With one of Kenny's Eruption's, hell I WOULD perform CPR to keep him alive if I had to. LOL

Obviously if the fish were listlessly floating about the tank it would be another story but if he is schooling and seems fine, you gotta try.

Eddie

[Yassmeena]

Yas,

Don't cull the fish. It's a little different when you have a group of six than when you have a group of probably a thousand. It can be hard to let the fish go when you haven't tried everything. With one of Kenny's Eruption's, hell I WOULD perform CPR to keep him alive if I had to. LOL

Obviously if the fish were listlessly floating about the tank it would be another story but if he is schooling and seems fine, you gotta try.

Eddie

LOL - I've examined him as he swims and tried to mentally devise a method to manually massage the bloated contents through his digestive tract.

I always end up walking away thinking it would probably do more harm than good. :p

[Eddie]

LOL - I've examined him as he swims and tried to mentally devise a method to manually massage the bloated contents through his digestive tract.

I always end up walking away thinking it would probably do more harm than good. :p

Yeah, might not try that....LOL

Time and internal bacterial meds will help. Also, you can put him alone in a QT and dose a higher amount of Epsom. I won't mention how much in this thread but I will PM you if you want. LOL :D

Eddie

[CARY_GLdiscus]

LOL! Eddie,
Come on don't be shy eddie!

Anyways I like to use 2tbs per 10 gals I would also leave the lights on for 24/7.
I would also add a air stone or power head to keep him on the move. my temp would be set low for internal treatment around 83F I would use a antibiotic like gentamycin. for 8 days with daily w/c's.

Anyways I totally understand how you and eddie feel! and being that it is a top notch discus I guess its worth a try.

But IME more so with spotted discus that are color inhanced when young! this type of sickness never turns out to good! even when They seem to get better they only go into relapse weeks later stop eating again and die! But hey at least you and eddie tryed : )


Takecare
cary Gld!

P.S as for metro treatments! IME double dose at high temps for 5 days will do the job but only if Your useing pure Metro. HTH

[Yassmeena]

LOL! Eddie,
Come on don't be shy eddie!

Anyways I like to use 2tbs per 10 gals I would also leave the lights on for 24/7.
I would also add a air stone or power head to keep him on the move. my temp would be set low for internal treatment around 83F I would use a antibiotic like gentamycin. for 8 days with daily w/c's.

Anyways I totally understand how you and eddie feel! and being that it is a top notch discus I guess its worth a try.

But IME more so with spotted discus that are color inhanced when young! this type of sickness never turns out to good! even when They seem to get better they only go into relapse weeks later stop eating again and die! But hey at least you and eddie tryed : )


Takecare
cary Gld!

P.S as for metro treatments! IME double dose at high temps for 5 days will do the job but only if Your useing pure Metro. HTH

Thanks Cary - I unfortunately wasn't using pure metro. I was using Metro+ by Hikari.

I will be buying some metro soon to have in the med cabinet though!

I'll start bringing the temp down so it can be at the right temp when the meds arrive.

Wish me luck! :p

[CARY_GLdiscus]

Ok

I wish You luck : )

Keep us posted and KIT

Takecare
Cary + family

[seanyuki]

Hi yas,

You could get Kanamycin from the sites


http://www.nationalfishpharm.com/products2.html#K

or

Jehmco


http://www.jehmco.com/html/medications.html


Hope this helps

Cheers
Francis:)

[Yassmeena]

Hi yas,

You could get Kanamycin from the sites


http://www.nationalfishpharm.com/products2.html#K

or

Jehmco


http://www.jehmco.com/html/medications.html


Hope this helps

Cheers
Francis:)


Hi Francis,

Thanks for the sites. I looked at those two, but didn't order from them because they don't provide information on dosage. I unfortunately would not know how much I would need for my 55 gallon...... :confused:

[waters10]

When you're dealing with Jehmco, it's pretty much like dealing with Kenny. Just give them a call. Very nice and friendly. They can help you out with dosage and when you get it, it'll be written on the labels. If you're ordering from them, you have to call anyway, since you can't order from the site. You'll also need to fax a document stating that you'll be using meds for fish use only.

[Eddie]

LOL! Eddie,
Come on don't be shy eddie!

Anyways I like to use 2tbs per 10 gals I would also leave the lights on for 24/7.



Not me Cary, LOL, everybody gets criticism of some sort when they do things out of the norm. I like to do things a bit out of the norm.

The dosage you recommended was spot on to what I use, but I would go an extra mile (2 more tbsp) if nothing happened after 4 hours. :D

Hope the fish is doing better Yas,

Eddie

[seanyuki]

Hi Yas,

The fish pharmacy site does include dosage...


http://www.nationalfishpharm.com/products2.html#K

Kanamycin Sulfate Powder
Fish Disease Diagnosis: Gram-negative bacteria and resistant strains of tuberculosis. Works especially well in salt water aquariums.

Fish Disease Treatment: 1/4 teaspoon per 20 gallons of water. Treat every 24 hours with a 25% water change before each treatment. Treat for 10 days. For tuberculosis, use for up to 30 days.


Good luck in healing the sick fish.


Cheers
Francis:)


Hi Francis,

Thanks for the sites. I looked at those two, but didn't order from them because they don't provide information on dosage. I unfortunately would not know how much I would need for my 55 gallon...... :confused:

[Yassmeena]

Hi Yas,

The fish pharmacy site does include dosage...


http://www.nationalfishpharm.com/products2.html#K

Kanamycin Sulfate Powder
Fish Disease Diagnosis: Gram-negative bacteria and resistant strains of tuberculosis. Works especially well in salt water aquariums.

Fish Disease Treatment: 1/4 teaspoon per 20 gallons of water. Treat every 24 hours with a 25% water change before each treatment. Treat for 10 days. For tuberculosis, use for up to 30 days.


Good luck in healing the sick fish.


Cheers
Francis:)

Yeah, but the units don't match. The meds are sold by the gram, and we are not told how many grams one tsp is.
:confused:

[CARY_GLdiscus]

JUST BUY 5 GRAMS IT WILL NOT GO TO WASTE

[Yassmeena]

JUST BUY 5 GRAMS IT WILL NOT GO TO WASTE

So 5 grams should be enough for my 55 gallon then?

[CARY_GLdiscus]

Yassmeena,
I know We got off on the wrong foot (Sorry for That) But come to the shop I have what you need Or dale should. Anyways 5 grams will work for your tank but if You can buy alittle more it could come in handy for other things down the road.

Again best Wishes
Cary+family

[Yassmeena]

Yassmeena,
I know We got off on the wrong foot (Sorry for That) But come to the shop I have what you need Or dale should. Anyways 5 grams will work for your tank but if You can buy alittle more it could come in handy for other things down the road.

Again best Wishes
Cary+family

Thanks Cary - I'm sorry too. Thanks for bringing it up. :)

So you guys have the kanamycin?

If so I would love to come by - probably Friday around 5:30. How is that?

Best,

Yasmin

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

If the kanamyacin doesnt work and you are still convinced it is bacterial, I would do your best to get a vet to help you get ahold of some Baytril (enrofloxacin). It has to be injected, but from the few discus-specific cases I have seen it has worked wonders. There may still be a thread about Kathy using it a few years back on DAAH...

-Ryan

[waters10]

If the kanamyacin doesnt work and you are still convinced it is bacterial, I would do your best to get a vet to help you get ahold of some Baytril (enrofloxacin). It has to be injected, but from the few discus-specific cases I have seen it has worked wonders. There may still be a thread about Kathy using it a few years back on DAAH...

-Ryan
There was a thread here about injecting Baytril ... Sounds really scary procedure to be honest! I'm sure it's easy enough if you have some experience, but I just can't picture myself ever doing that!

[CARY_GLdiscus]

yassmeena,
I have something better!


Ryan,
Good Stuff! but not cheap. Its used Big TIME with reptiles!

[moik]

And, let the cat out of the bag

[Eddie]

Look at that Yas, getting some meds from the man...could get a little mentoring session too. You mind if I come through Cary? :D

Take care,
Eddie

[TankWatcher]

this type of sickness never turns out to good! even when They seem to get better they only go into relapse weeks later stop eating again and die! One reason for this, when medicating with antibiotics, could be under dosing, or not dosing for long enough period. Like Paul said to me on another thread, there is a reason why your Dr will usually prescribe a course of antibiotics for an 8-10 day period.

Anyway, I hope it doesn't turn out to be true for me. My heckel (metro treatment finished early Dec) is still going strong. I'm watchful for relapse, but not stressing over it. So far so good.

Good luck with stage 2 of this fish's recovery, yassmeena. Fingers crossed.

[Yassmeena]

yassmeena,
I have something better!


Ryan,
Good Stuff! but not cheap. Its used Big TIME with reptiles!

Hi Cary,

That's is VERY nice to hear. I will come by this evening.

Will you be open around 5:30 or 6?

PS - I sent you a PM. :)