Wild Blue & Brown Bio Type

[TankWatcher]

Hi all

I need cheering up today, so I thought today was a good day to start setting up the decor for my wild blue & brown tank.

It won't be a true bio type, because I intend to have save moss & narrow leaf java fern & from what I hear, there's really not much in the way of plants in their natural habitat. Also, tank mates will not be bio type. They will be ones that do well in the same water parameters as discus & also those that appeal to me.

This will definitely include sterbai cories, possibly Apistogramma. Maybe cardinals or some other colourful little fish.

Not much to show yet. This is how I think I will have the driftwood. Water is at half mast while I work, so that spoils the look, but I hope you get the idea. Need to saw some of the height off from the piece on the right as the lids won't fit on as is.

I know the top of the wood is a little jarring as it is, but hopefully the moss will in time cover & soften that look a little.

There will be a thin layer of silica pool filter sand and once the plants are tied on the wood, I'll add that.

Heiko is often say that we need to have floating plants in a wild discus tank. How would duck week work. I have some of that I could shift across. Other floating plants, I'd have to buy.

Anyone got any suggestions for floating plants that wouldn't look too out of place in a wild discus tank?

Full Shot
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/TankWatcher/79G_298L_Discus%20Tank/000_0967.jpg

Left Side
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/TankWatcher/79G_298L_Discus%20Tank/000_0965.jpg



Right Side
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/TankWatcher/79G_298L_Discus%20Tank/000_0966.jpg

[rickztahone]

set up looks nice Robyn. i know you need cheering up and starting a new tank is always a great stress reliever and gives you a chance to start new. enjoy the new setup and as far as floating plants i use wisteria but you would need a lot of it. it floats well but i usually tie it off

[Dan S]

Hello Robyn,

I use Amazon Frogbit, thats great, gets lovely long roots which hang down into the water and grows easily and it provides lots of shade for the Discus.

Your wood looks great, really lovely pieces, again its providing shade for the Discus which will make them happy.

Your spot on adding sand, Im sure youve read about that on here already.

With my Blues, I keep Corys and before they started breeding I kept Cardinals aswell and they where all fine. I did try a couple of Apistos but Ive never had much luck with them so I ended up sticking with the Discus but many people keep them together succesfully.

The way I see a tank Biotope is, its our interpretation of a biotope in a very limited space, so if you include the key elements of sand, wood thats the bit I see as important, floating plant like Amazon frogbit provide shade which the Discus love so again I see as important, then if you choose to add some Java Fern thats a personal choice and Im sure the Discus wont hold it against you.

I see you have a luminanire, I also use one, and Im experimenting with it to create areas of shade and light, I dont have the spare cash to buy Metal halides to get the spotlight effect they can create so Im trying out some stage lighting film to cover areas of the luminaire. Im trying to get a more natural look with uneven lighting. I will let you know how I get on in a couple of weeks (it may not work).

I look forward to seeing your photos once completed.

Dan

[TankWatcher]

as far as floating plants i use wisteria but you would need a lot of it. it floats well but i usually tie it off ]Hi Ricardo. Do you mean with an elastic band?
I use Amazon Frogbit,Haven't given up yet, but I googled for this plant in Aust & so far results seem to say it's not on the legal import list. Will try a little longer, but in case I need to settle for something similar, how big do the biggest leaf pads get?
Im trying out some stage lighting film to cover areas of the luminaire. Im trying to get a more natural look with uneven lighting. I will let you know how I get on in a couple of weeks (it may not work).So the lights won't overheat when you do this? Please let me know how it goes. Would love to see pictures.

I've flipped the driftwood piece on the right side around. I'm not entirely happy with my wood.

More pictures later.

Thanks for the replies.

[rickztahone]

i use suction cups and tie it off to that :D

[Eddie]

Wow Robyn, that looks great! Can't wait to you post pics with the fish in tank. It will set everything off! Looks really good.


Eddie

[TankWatcher]

Update :)

ATM, there are 2 wild blues and 3 wild browns in the tank. There are still 2 more wild browns to add in & they will transfer over sometime during the coming week.

Trying to keep the tank minimalist. ATM, I've avoided planting anything in the substrate. That might change but for now, it's not in the plan. I'm in the process of sourcing floating plants, as wilds are meant to have those in their natural environment. Possibly may add some more moss here & there. I'm hoping to find some frogbit - seems it's not very common here.

Would like to get rid of the heater. Maybe inline, but not sure if I have room in the cabinet for that. Otherwise, when the N.Leaf java fern grows tall enough, if I push to heater behind the fern, that might be enough to hide it.

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/TankWatcher/79G_298L_Discus%20Tank/000_0997.jpg
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/TankWatcher/79G_298L_Discus%20Tank/000_0998.jpg
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/TankWatcher/79G_298L_Discus%20Tank/000_0999.jpg
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/TankWatcher/79G_298L_Discus%20Tank/000_1000.jpg

[Eyecandy]

Hi there Robyn... Congrats.. I like it much better this way.. It's definitely coming along.. I personally don't like duckweed as it is a pita if you want to get rid of it.. it easily gets into filters etc... but the fish like it.. I think you should be able to find the wisteria or something else there.. Please keep posting pics as you progress.. Your fish are gonna love it... Sue:D

[DLock3d]

Anyone have a list of plants that don't need substrate and where to order them from? That would help me out soooo much as I'm switching to BB and manzanita wood. I'd love to have a planted BB tank if possible. Does that even make sense?

[Kevin22]

LOOKING GOOD. I'D HIDE THE HEATER A BIT

[Dan S]

Hello robyn,

Thats looking great!!! Really good work there.

Bet the fish love it. I know Ive already said it but I love the wood you have.

Dan

[frenchie100]

That looks awesome Robyn! You have me inspired now! :)

-Julie

[milton]

looks good

[Mr Wild]

Really looking beautiful Robyn, keep the pics coming I would like a close up of the narrow leaf java if yo9u can get it. What about adding more plants to the driftwood up high it would then look like floating plants to your fishy friends.

[TankWatcher]

I like it much better this way thanks Sue :)

I personally don't like duckweed as it is a pita if you want to get rid of it.. it easily gets into filters etcI'm with you there. Took ages to get rid of it the 7ft. I never even bought any duckweed - but there it was, clogging up the surface & blocking light to lower plants. There must have a stray little bit of duckweek that hitchhiked into the tank with a plant purchase I didn't wash properly. With high light & C02 in the 7ft, it got out of control. I think I have got it all out now, but I found 1 little duckweed floater last night, so it's still hanging in there :angry:


Anyone have a list of plants that don't need substrate and where to order them from? That would help me out soooo much as I'm switching to BB and manzanita wood. I'd love to have a planted BB tank if possible. Does that even make sense? www.tropica.com will help. Give you specs on many plants, including position, light & temp preferences. There's bound to be more, but these plants come easily to mind as ones you attached to rocks or driftwood, so they don't need substrate: anubias (all varieties, Bolbitis heudelottii, java fern (all varieties including Windelov) and mosses. Besides that, some people put plants in pots & put them in the BB tanks.
LOOKING GOOD. I'D HIDE THE HEATER A BIT Agree totally, Kevin. It's a real eyesore :o Wish I could get hold of a black heater, so at least it would blend in better. Would like an in-line heater, but my cabinet is a low one. Don't think there's height for the heater to sit vertically (which I'm told it must) without having the hoses bending & kinking. Hoping when the N.Leaf java fern grows tall enough, if I push to heater behind the fern, that might be enough to hide it, at least a bit. No C02 in this tank & java is a slow grower, so may have to wait a bit for that plan to work:o
I know Ive already said it but I love the wood you have.Thanks Dan. Coming from you, with your beautiful tank, which I seriously love, that's a real nice thing for you to say :) Not as happy with the piece on the right side, as I'd like. Misjudged it's size. I intended to flip it over into a vertical position, but it's just too tall for that. Still, if I did flip it that way, I wouldn't have a low horizontal branch for attching the java fern. Could always cut it, but one day I might want to move it to my taller 2ft deep tank - then I'd regret cutting it. (This tank is only 20" high - a big regret).

Hi Milton & Julie :wave: Thanks for popping in & saying such nice things :)
Really looking beautiful Robyn, keep the pics coming I would like a close up of the narrow leaf java if yo9u can get it. What about adding more plants to the driftwood up high it would then look like floating plants to your fishy friends. Thanks Kath. I might add more moss up higher, but I think most plants that are suitable for tying onto the upper branches are slow growers. Putting them high up & so close to the lights might give me algae problem. Not sure on that, but it's what I'm thinking. The N.leaf java fern is in there, but I will take a close up pic for you. I have some more coming (might be there tonight when I get home).

I think I have a lead on amazon frogbit, so I'm holding out for that as my top level plant.

Later, I'll take some close up shots of the wilds in there. Nothing as compared to your's Dan, but still I'm in love :heart2:

[Eddie]

Super Nice Robyn, looks gorgeous and the fish look great in there! Keep up with the updates on the fish and the tank. Very very nice indeed.


Eddie

[Pelle]

Looks very good.
Keep us updated!

Pelle

[Discus-Hans]

Take that big heater out and put 2 smaller ones in, one in each corner, don't want to see you lose those wilds in fish soup,

Hans

[Apistomaster]

You might try some potted Nymphea dwarf lilies. They put out some floating leaves, if you allow them, that get about 5 inches in diameter. It is easy to control how many floating leaves by cutting the stems near the crown. Their under water leaves are very colorful and they do well in the warm water that discus need.

[TankWatcher]

Hi Eddie, Pelle, Hans & Larry

Thanks heaps to you all for the advice and comments.

Looking into what I can do about that big ugly heater.

Larry, I will look out for the Nympeha dwarf lillies. Thanks for the tip. Darn tough quaratine laws here mean some really basic plants are tough to get hold of here. Fingers crossed that Nympeha dwarf lillies are on the "import list". Still trying to get Amazon Fogbit. I have found a hobbyist who said he might spare me 1 or 2 plants. If all goes well, he is going to post me some this week (we did a plant swap).

[Heiko Bleher]

Hi,

just saw this thread and the started nice setup (seems my lessons work by now around the discus-globe...).

But I was very disappointed by some comment as to ad many plants and specially:"anubias (all varieties, Bolbitis heudelottii, java fern (all varieties including Windelov) and mosses. Besides that, some people put plants in pots & put them in the BB tanks."
This is really not to be done. Larry gave some good suggestion to be followed, but not the former one. These are African and Asian plants and your wilds do not know any of those... (think fish).

naturally you can do want you want, but it is my suggestion (as part of it you are doing) to keep it for wild nature-like.

Maybe Robyn wants to come to my lectures in Perth on June 2nd. for the Western Australian Discus Association (and forum), or in Sydney on September 11th-13th, because I will be in your country on those dates talking about fishes...(and biotopes, discoveries, etc.)

And if anyone is interested: The COAC celebrate their 50th anniversary next weekend and I will be doing 3 biotope aquariums (discus, rainbowfishes and Canadian temperate fishes) and give three lectures, also on recent discoveries (in 2008). It will be a fantastic event, from May 15-17th in London, Ontario, Canada. You all should come - one of a life-time event. (As very few will be around in 50 years from now... I guess).

All the best and keep up the good (nature-like) aquariums,

always

Heiko Bleher
www.aquapress-bleher.com

[TankWatcher]

just saw this thread and the started nice setup (seems my lessons work by now around the discus-globe...)Thanks for visiting my thread & kind words

But I was very disappointed by some comment as to ad many plants and specially:"anubias (all varieties, Bolbitis heudelottii, java fern (all varieties including Windelov) and mosses. Besides that, some people put plants in pots & put them in the BB tanks."Those suggestions are not for this tank though. I was answering someone else's question about what plants don't need a substrate & he was not setting up a wild bio type. He was setting up a BB for domestics.

It is true I couldn't resist using just a little java fern though. It has been hard for me not to have some plants :( I hope my wilds will forgive me :(
If by the time I get my floating plants in there & I am happy with that look, I might take out the java. I am listening to what you say, as I know you have great knowledge of these wilds.

I have managed to get hold of 2 very small amazon frogbit plants (this was all another hobbyist could spare me). They are now floating on the surface & I'm really hoping they multiply well for me. I'm also talking to plant suppliers here to see what other floating plants I can find.

You might try some potted Nymphea dwarf lilies. I've asked my plant supplier about your suggestion & he says he's not sure what N.dwarf lilies I'm asking about. Also - are you saying they must be potted? I'm looking for ones that I can float & don't need potting or planting.

Sydney on September 11th-13th, because I will be in your country on those dates talking about fishes...(and biotopes, discoveries, etc.) Yes, I would like that very much. I knew you were coming to Perth, but that is nearly 4,000km away from me. I've seen where I can buy Perth tickets (but I can't get to Perth). Where do I get tickets to your Sydney lecture? I really don't want to miss that. I'll book in now, if you know where I can get the tickets.

[TankWatcher]

I only received my amazon frogbit in the mail on Tuesday. It was 2 small plants. 1 plant had 3 leaves and the other 2. I was surprised to see how much it has multiplied.

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/TankWatcher/79G_298L_Discus%20Tank/000_1037.jpg

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/TankWatcher/79G_298L_Discus%20Tank/000_1035.jpg

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/TankWatcher/79G_298L_Discus%20Tank/000_1034.jpg

Guess it's not going to take as long as I thought it would, to have enough frogbit to do for this tank as well as the wild green tank.

The root system is still quite small, so I'm looking forward to see the effect when they are hanging down in the water column.

[Apistomaster]

I thought I would try to explain why I use and suggest to others the use of Anubias and Java Moss on wood with wild Discus.
I am presently only keeping one planted tank with wild Discus. From inception, my concept was to simulate the conditions of the high water season when Discus disperse among the flooded trees. Based on videos I have seen of wild Discus spawning among the trees, the trees still retained their leaves and some terrestrial mosses usually are present in places.
Since I do not believe it is possible to exactly duplicate a fishes biotope I try the next best thing.
Anubias is an African plant but it's leaves are not dissimilar to those on the flooded trees and the same goes for a little moss. I don't use many plants but enough to make my dead wood more similar to living flooded trees. I take a little "literary" license to achieve a semblance to the natural flooded forest.

It seems to me that using only wood and no plants whatsoever is more like the low water period when Discus are just trying to survive. The flooded forest stage is when they have abundant foods for themselves and the young of the year.

In the end, one can take the extreme of a completely bare tank where the discus have no cover to the verdant aquatic garden style tank where discus cannot even pick through the sand because it is covered with plants. Or choose something like I chose, a simulation of the flooded forest when Discus are in peak breeding condition. This seemed rational to me even if the plants I chose are not native to Amazonia they still are more similar to flooded terrestrial vegetation than using Amazon Swords.

I can say that Discus respond very favorably to the environment I provided and my maintenance requirements are minimal in my set up which is something I value.

[TankWatcher]

That does make sense Larry. Thanks for the extra info.

[AquatiCreations]

I love the overhead tank shots Robyn,you have done a great job with this tank.

[Eddie]

Nice frogbit Robyn, and they have multiplied quickly. That will be a very nice top cover in time. Looks good.


Eddie

[Eyecandy]

Hi Robyn... I really like the look of the frogbit... glad you were able to get some. The tank is really coming along beautifully.. Congrats.. Sue:D

[Heiko Bleher]

Hi,

Robyn thanks for your kind words and your tank is really coming along nicely. Congratulations (and sorry I mis-understood those plant comments).

As with regards to Larry, naturally what goes best for ones aquarium (and if the fish feel really well with it – which one can see) one should do, I am just a nature boy (it is where I grew up in part) and I cannot anything on Earth (at least in the last 164 countries I researched), that beats nature in its own. And because my experience is that the fishes always go best with what they know.

Always

Heiko Bleher
www.aquapress-bleher.com

PS: Is anyone of you guys coming to my lectures in London Ontario this weekend? I will also present my latest 400-discus-collecting adventure from last August and give presentation of my my latest (new) cichlid-discoveries and one about my field trip to North East India this February/March. No one should mis that unique 50th anniversary of the CAOAC in Canada.

[AHC]

Looking good Robyn,

When your tank is full of frog bit im going to have to grab some off you :grin:

[chemjab]

What a great tank and very interesting thread to read. I really like what you have done. You mentioned the tank height of 20". What are the other dimensions and capasisty. It looks pretty wide from the picutes.




I thought I would try to explain why I use and suggest to others the use of Anubias and Java Moss on wood with wild Discus.
I am presently only keeping one planted tank with wild Discus. From inception, my concept was to simulate the conditions of the high water season when Discus disperse among the flooded trees. Based on videos I have seen of wild Discus spawning among the trees, the trees still retained their leaves and some terrestrial mosses usually are present in places.
Since I do not believe it is possible to exactly duplicate a fishes biotope I try the next best thing.
Anubias is an African plant but it's leaves are not dissimilar to those on the flooded trees and the same goes for a little moss. I don't use many plants but enough to make my dead wood more similar to living flooded trees. I take a little "literary" license to achieve a semblance to the natural flooded forest.

It seems to me that using only wood and no plants whatsoever is more like the low water period when Discus are just trying to survive. The flooded forest stage is when they have abundant foods for themselves and the young of the year.

In the end, one can take the extreme of a completely bare tank where the discus have no cover to the verdant aquatic garden style tank where discus cannot even pick through the sand because it is covered with plants. Or choose something like I chose, a simulation of the flooded forest when Discus are in peak breeding condition. This seemed rational to me even if the plants I chose are not native to Amazonia they still are more similar to flooded terrestrial vegetation than using Amazon Swords.

I can say that Discus respond very favorably to the environment I provided and my maintenance requirements are minimal in my set up which is something I value.

Larry,
Nicely put. Do you have a post with pictures? Can you share a link to them?

James

[poconogal]

Robyn, I don't know how I missed this thread... the tank looks lovely, I like what you've done with the wood. Have you now gotten the floating plants? If so, what did you get?

[TankWatcher]

Hi Mark, Eddie & Sue, thanks for nice comments.
When your tank is full of frog bit im going to have to grab some off youHi Aaron, good to see you on SD :) The frogbit is not growing as fast as I first thought it was. I promised a plant swap with Mr Wild (Kath) when I have enough, but for sure I'll try to remember to let you know as well. It might be a little while though, till I have enough to spare.
What a great tank and very interesting thread to read. I really like what you have done. You mentioned the tank height of 20". What are the other dimensions and capasisty. It looks pretty wide from the picutes.Thanks James. I wish it was wider & higher. It's only 48"L x 19"W x 20"H
Have you now gotten the floating plants? If so, what did you get? Hi Connie :) Scroll up to post 23, where I took some pics of the frogbit. I'm not finding it easy to find floating plants. I managed to get 2 small pieces of frogbit & 1 piece of ceratopteris thalictroides. I'm still trying to source more. Seems most of the ones I want are considered pests over here & i can't find them. Still looking :)

[poconogal]

Robyn, I like the frogbit, very pretty. It should look really nice when its more filled in on top. Have you tried Ebay for plants? One place I saw has a great moss, Star Moss I think its called, to attach to wood.

Maybe someone can answer a question for me too? How do you manage the floating plants and algae? When I had plants in pots in my tank, the plant leaves that were up high and near the light grew algae on them which was a b**** to clean off the leaves. Did I have the light on too long (about 12 hrs. daily)? Or doesn't it matter with floating plants?

[TankWatcher]

Well, as the plants in this tank are all low light plants, I only turn one row on & only for 8 hours max. If you have plants with high light needs, this mightn't work.

[poconogal]

I only have a 32W T8 bulb... but I do have a lot of ambient light in the room with 20 foot high windows... hmmmm... for a low light plant I probably could have the strip light on less time with no problem.

I added this to my prior post but I think it was after you answered:

Have you tried Ebay for plants? One place I saw has a great moss, Star Moss I think its called, to attach to wood too. Low light, temps to 86 F. I'm thinking of getting some.

[Scribbles]

Robyn,

I don't know how I missed this thread either. Anyway, your tank is absolutely gorgeous as are the discus. They must be very happy with their beautiful home.

Connie,

I've never had any problems of algae with frogbit. Even when other plants in the tank have had occasional algae issues. I've read that they are high light plants so maybe they use the light before the algae gains a hold on them.

Chris

[TankWatcher]

I can only buy plants from Aussie ebay plant sellers. Our customs will sieze & destroy plants posted sent through the post from overseas. I found that out the hard way. I didn't receive my plants, just a warning letter from Customs. Annoying, 'cause there's an ebay seller (I think from Malaysia, but I might have that wrong) who has great looking plants, really cheap.) I've heard of cases where sometimes the buyer's been lucky & got their plants, but more often not. Plus with one warning letter against my name - I'm not game to try again. Next time it might be a fine.
I've read that they are high light plants so maybe they use the light before the algae gains a hold on them.Where did you read that? I assumed it was low light, mainly as it's used so much in wild discus tanks, where we usually do have the lights on the lower side of the scale. Hmmmm, I might have to re-think my lighting schedule, if that's the case. Last thing I want is for the stuff to die on me, as I might not be able to souce more (Plus I have Kath & Aaron lining up for my spares - so i can't let them down).

[Scribbles]

I don't remember where I read it as I was looking it up on the computer. Just googled it though and read the first four listings 2 said low light and 2 said moderate light. But you're right , in the Amazon forest I would think that everything would be in the shade.

Chris

[Yassmeena]

Wow Robyn! How amazing!!!!!! I love your tank! :)

Yasmin

[TankWatcher]

Thanks Chris & Yas

Chris, I will look into the light requirements of frogbit further. I think you can get frogbit cheaply/easily in the USA??? But here, it seems that unless you can find a hobbyist prepared to give you some, you'll probably never find it. So, I don't want to kill what I've got. Thanks for the tip.

[Apistomaster]

What a great tank and very interesting thread to read. I really like what you have done. You mentioned the tank height of 20". What are the other dimensions and capasisty. It looks pretty wide from the picutes.





Larry,
Nicely put. Do you have a post with pictures? Can you share a link to them?

James

Hi James,
Thank you.
Have you looked at my thread about my Blue Discus tank?
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=66500
I haven't taken any recent photos since that the tank has become well established and the Anubias have filled in more. I'll try to update it's progress soon.
I have removed one of the pairs to their own 75 gal tank and will be removing other pairs in time. Then I will have to stock it with something else. Perhaps some Red Spotted Greens.
I sold my 10 Heckels so I have more room. I had my fun with my Heckels some 4 years but the chances of breeding them made them just an expensive to maintain indulgence for me.