Torn, and kinda bummed. :(

[Yassmeena]

I am a little bummed bc I want a planted discus tank SO BAD, but I want healthy happy discus just as bad!

I set up my tank as is shown in my journal in this section, finally had sand substrate, planted lightly with a low tech set up.

Well my RGDs started getting very dark, and with every feeding the substrate accumilated more uneaten food that turned into nasty NASTY crud! Worst of all - this nasty stuff would be mixed in with the substrate and cloud up my tank with every WC. Knowing the tank was filthy all day long bc of the substrate did NOT rest easy with me.

On an impulse one day a WC and substrate cleaning turned into a substrate removal! I took it all out, but left plants floating around until I figure out what to do.

Does anyone really acheive a perfect balance with planted discus tanks? How? Please guide me...

[cmich]

Hey Yasmin,

One option would be a doing a BB tank with driftwood and potted plants. That way you could sort of achieve the look you want, while keeping the tank BB and maintaining water quality and ease of cleaning! Just a thought, I have not ever done it, but i'm sure it could be done. I know how fun planted tanks can be though. My planted tank is my pride and joy. I hope you are able to get a good balance so that you can enjoy both. You could also always keep a planted tank with schooling fish and no discus, and then have a seperate BB tank for your discus :)

You can never have too many tanks!

Good luck,

Blake

[TankWatcher]

Hi Yas?

What kind of sand were you using. I use pool filter sand & find that any poops or debris settle on sand surface & it doesn't mix in with the substrate. How were you cleaning it?

Best way I found was to gently point your gravel vac just above the sand surface & suck up that surface debris. Not until I've gotten rid of that do I stir up the sand with my vac for any deep cleaning.

I think if I was to start off the cleaning process by digging my vac into the sand straight away, without sucking away the surface debris, it would all start to be mixed into the substrate.

I don't know if that's what was happening for you, but thought it might be something to think about.

I keep a length of air tube handy & use that to suck out the surface stuff, before I even get out my gravel vac. To make the air tube go where I want it to (as it tends to flop around the place) I've tied a piece of dowel to the end that goes into the tank.

Blake has a good suggestion, though I have never done it myself. I'm not so much into the pot plant look (JMO - other love it, so i mean no offence) but what about a few nice pieces of driftwood, with annubias, fern & moss attached. Then some of that branch wood hanging from the top.

I only ever have BB for new stock in QT or for juvies. My planted tank has a tank full of healthy discus & I can't remember last when one of them was sick. (I hope I just didn't jinx myself)

Good luck.

[waters10]

Hey, Yas. A couple of points.

I'd use sand as substrate, per Tankwatcher's suggestion. Even though I never tried, it has to be easier to clean than any other substrate.

Second, I think you're being a bit too anxious about the whole thing. It seems like in the last month or so, you went from BB, to 1/2 substrate - 1/2 BB tank, to full substrate and back to BB. I think you need to stop a bit, consider all the options carefully and most of all, take it easy. In the past, you said you don't have too much time, so don't look at all the amazing tanks out there that require a lot more time and commitment than what you can do. Set up some realistic expectations and be patient!

In my case, I want a planted discus tank as well. I look at jannima's awesome tank (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=54156) and decided I want that!! But I decided to make it in different phases. I started with just driftwood attached plants after seeing this beatiful yet "simple" tank by Dan (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=50294&highlight=angel%2Fplanted). This is something I know I can tackle right now! Later on, I'll go with substrate and some other types of plants. Then later on, I'll go with CO2 and go heavily planted. I got a light fixture that can take me through all the phases so I don't have to upgrade later. There's a chance I stop in phase 1 or phase 2, depending on how things progress and how happy I am with my setup. I don't have much time either (but more than you though!) and I think this will keep me motivated and seeing results at a good pace. Not saying you have to do the exact same thing, but consider setting up a more long term plan for you to achieve what you want.

Good luck! I hope I didn't get too personal and was never meant to insult or offend.

[calihawker]

Yas,
First of all, don't be bummed:)
Like waters10 said, take it slow. That's probably the number 1 best advice. When I tore down my reef tank I put a copy of Amano's book on the coffee table as inspiration. Although I had never done either, I wanted a planted discus tank. And the single best piece of advice that I got was to get the planted thing down first. I spent over a year and a half doing just that, going through major algae blooms, c02 issues, going high tech to low tech and back again and finally just got it. The tank is balanced easy to maintain and the discus are happy and healthy:D

So go for it, it's totally worth the wait!!


Steve

[TankWatcher]

Yas,

good advice you're getting from all. I really like the BB tank of Dan's, the one that waters10 linked for you. If I was ever to have a display tank as BB, I'd do something like Dan's. A simple, but beautiful tank to be proud of.

Like Steve, I did the hi tech planted tank thing for maybe 2 years, before I accidentally fell into keeping discus with an impulse buy (bad I know - but I got away with it). I still have that first discus that I brought home & added to the planted tank June 2006 or 2007.

I've seen pics of Steve's tanks too. Beautiful.

Good luck & have fun

[DiscusOnly]

Don't feel bummed. I am in a similiar situation.

I was was excited about converting one of my tank to planted. I converted it to sand and got a lot of plants (given to me by a member here). The tank looks good and they are rooting and growing.

I selected 6 large discus, all non-pigeon and place them in the tank. I couldn't stand the site of the discus after 4 days. They were dark and not as active. There was no problem with them eating.. They just did come up and eat off my hands.

I took all the discus back down to my BB tank and within 1 hour, they were all back to normal.

[Yassmeena]

Hey everyone,

Thanks for the kind words and helpful info. I will address all the questions and comments later on tonight. For now I want to share a drawing I made. This is what I would like to do with my tank.

http://i449.photobucket.com/albums/qq216/yasminnagm/mytank.jpg

1 = DW with anubias petite and java narrow
2 = marisula quadrifolia or minuta
3,4 = java fern and crinum thaianum

I don't want CO2, so I had considred 56 W of T5 (55 gallons), and excel and flourish dosing.

Substrate I had used was pool filter sand, but it was coarse larger sized particles. I think fine grade white sand would be better.

I am concerned though about how such a tank may affect my discus, primarally because of the dirty substrate issue.

Any guidance, input, advice.... pile it on! I need all the help I can get!

[mehran]

Hi Yassmeena
Here is what I have done so far in my tank.
Choose adult/young adult discus so there is no need for a lot of feeding.
Use fine sand so the food stay at top of it and easily can be find by the fish.
Designate a feeding area in your landscaping with minimum water flow and no planting at all.
And most importantly have a big number of bottom feeder and cleaning crew in your tank so all the uneaten food picked up fast by the fish.
Good luck
PS Discus in a planted tank naturally become darker so if feeding pattern is the same it should be OK
Mehran

[TankWatcher]

Hi Yas

Before you switch to a fine grade sand, do a bit of research on that. Just going by all the advice on sand I was given, I wouldn't use from fine sand. The reason people recommend pool filter sand is because the grains are larger. Fine grain sand is said to compact & be harder to gravel vac. I was told that fine grains are more easily sucked up by your vac, along with the water. Now I can't say any of that from first hand experience, but I was recommended to stay away from it. Maybe I was given bad advice, I don't know.

My discus don't go dark over my sand substrate. My sand is silica pool filter sand & it's almost white, so because they are swimming over a such a light coloured base, they stay nice and bright. Just my experience.

Final comment on sand is that it isn't very nutritious for plants & that is something you also may need to think about.

[Roxanne]

...chin up Yas...there are so many gorgous examples of planted tanks, surely you will have your own too one day.... Robyn's planted tank I have seen with my own eyes so I know it is possible to do it successfully, and you have all these great suggestions to go on...personally, I think what ever substrate you choose, you really have to take alot of time to prepare it before it goes in with the fish....I think if I was going to do it, I would start it off in it's own tank, and give it water changes etc before it went into a fish tank..starting with bathing all the plants with an anti bac...and maybe not go so thick...maybe geting a balance happening in a planted tank, then add discus when you know it's all right...

This is what gets me about the water changes we have to do...substrate or not, if you don't suck up all the minute/microscopic crap that is daily deposited before you lower the water level, I believe a high concentration of crap is sucked into the fishes gills...this is only my opinion, but not sending the crap back into the water column seems 1 key to good fish health...only my opinion, based on experience and the amount of crap I scope from the bottom of my BB...don't think I'd use live foods with a substrate either...

Good Luck Yas...

[TankWatcher]

This is what gets me about the water changes we have to do...substrate or not, if you don't suck up all the minute/microscopic crap that is daily deposited before you lower the water level, I believe a high concentration of crap is sucked into the fishes gillsI think you could be right. Even in a BB, I suck up poops & debris from the bottom with my air tube, before the vac comes out. If I don't do that, I see the stuff floating around in the water column.

To do that in a really heavily planted tank is a bit difficult. What I do for that tank i use one of the narrowest gravel vacs first & poke it in & around all the leaves (just watch the gunk come out of an annubia plant). My beach areas, I use the air line. When I've taken care of those issues, then out comes the big vac to drain the water.

[Yassmeena]

The more I read about substrate, and after my couple of weeks, I think I will follow everyone's advice and try other alternatives for the time being.

I have some awesome javas and some anubias, and just got some amazing manzanita in the mail. I can set up a pot with the java and anubias and c. thaianum, and set up the DW. The only thing missing will be the sand and the carpet plant (as compared to my drawing above). But I think that is a good step into the planted discus world.

[TankWatcher]

Yas, was it you in Eddie's thread that mentioned the java mat? Why not do that, rather than java fern in the pot. I think you're meaning this mat has the fern type java, not the moss type java? Maybe I have that wrong though?

Whilst I've never seen this java mat, I can imagine that driftwood with java moss, annubia, java fern and some strategically placed java mats could look beautiful and leaning towards a natural look (as per Dan's nice arrangement). A pot of java fern is nice, but just might detract from the natural look That's just my opinion though & it mightn't worry you at all. Lots of people love the pots of plants in the tank & each to their own. Just my two cents worth of thoughts thrown in :)

[Yassmeena]

Yas, was it you in Eddie's thread that mentioned the java mat? Why not do that, rather than java fern in the pot. I think you're meaning this mat has the fern type java, not the moss type java? Maybe I have that wrong though?

Whilst I've never seen this java mat, I can imagine that driftwood with java moss, annubia, java fern and some strategically placed java mats could look beautiful and leaning towards a natural look (as per Dan's nice arrangement). A pot of java fern is nice, but just might detract from the natural look That's just my opinion though & it mightn't worry you at all. Lots of people love the pots of plants in the tank & each to their own. Just my two cents worth of thoughts thrown in :)

Hmmm... perhaps. Wow - planted tanks have too many options! :D :p

[TankWatcher]

Hmmm... perhaps. Wow - planted tanks have too many options! Sorry Yas, didn't mean to give to many options or confuse :(

But options are good, aren't they? Plus, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Just because I'm not partial to the potted look, doesn't mean that the next 2 dozen people that post here won't absolutely love pots in tanks :D

Guess you can tell I'm a fan of Dan's simple BB tank :o It's almost enough to tempt me to go BB.

Anyway, I now know you are the person with the java mats (as I've visited your thread on them) so I know you weren't meaning java moss.

Have fun with your revised tank plans. Look forward to your pics soon ;)

[cyberhog05]

From my time with my planted discus tank one of the most important parts I feel for keeping a ton of food to settle is the 50 or so tetras that consume all of the small particles of food that the discus so eagerly ignore. I have to intentionally get food to the bottom for my bottom feeders with the tube from my python. If I dont not much food makes it at all. I also switch off my canisters when feeding because with all of the plant debris my filters get I dont want to add a bunch of uneaten food. just my .02 and what works for me.

[Yassmeena]

From my time with my planted discus tank one of the most important parts I feel for keeping a ton of food to settle is the 50 or so tetras that consume all of the small particles of food that the discus so eagerly ignore. I have to intentionally get food to the bottom for my bottom feeders with the tube from my python. If I dont not much food makes it at all. I also switch off my canisters when feeding because with all of the plant debris my filters get I dont want to add a bunch of uneaten food. just my .02 and what works for me.

Hmmm... interesting point! I did not consider the added benefit of tetras to eat the smaller particles of food!

[Scribbles]

Sorry about the problems that you are having with your tank. I also keep tetras in my planted discus tank because they eat all the small crumbs that the discus make during their feeding frenzys. In fact, I'm currently overstocked and would get rid of the tetras but I worry that my water parameters wouldn't be good without their clean-up.

[waters10]

That's a very good point! Tetras and a clean-up crew should help when you have substrate.

[Wahter]

Just setup the tank with potted plants.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=42547&stc=1&d=1239064567



Walter

[csarkar001]

i'm thinking of going planted and your scaring the daylights out of me, yasmeena.

chandan

[Yassmeena]

i'm thinking of going planted and your scaring the daylights out of me, yasmeena.

chandan

Mmm... well do your research.

I guess from my experience I would suggest to start slow, pots, DW tied plants, etc, before you take the plunge?

But I think part of my troubles may be that I am trying to introduce plants into a discus tank. I think introducing discus into a planted tank would be easier.

Maybe I will do that when my time/funds allow it...

For now, I am looking for a happy medium.

[TankWatcher]

Hmmm... interesting point! I did not consider the added benefit of tetras to eat the smaller particles of food! sterbai cories do the same (probably any cories, but i can only comment 1st hand on sterbai). In fact, sterbai seem to clean up the poop too, if I'm not quick enough with the airline to suck it out. Come to think of it, not sure if they eat it, or just chew it up, spit it out & because they've made it small enough, it's sucked up & out into the filter. Either way, they get rid of it. Yuck - wish they wouldn't do that, sort of grosses me out.
I think introducing discus into a planted tank would be easier.Think that's right. Lots of the planted guys here seem to recommend getting a handle on a planted tank before you introduce your discus. By accident, that's what I did, because I was into planted tanks for several years before I got interested in discus.

[Yassmeena]

sterbai cories do the same (probably any cories, but i can only comment 1st hand on sterbai). In fact, sterbai seem to clean up the poop too, if I'm not quick enough with the airline to suck it out. Come to think of it, not sure if they eat it, or just chew it up, spit it out & because they've made it small enough, it's sucked up & out into the filter. Either way, they get rid of it. Yuck - wish they wouldn't do that, sort of grosses me out. Think that's right. Lots of the planted guys here seem to recommend getting a handle on a planted tank before you introduce your discus. By accident, that's what I did, because I was into planted tanks for several years before I got interested in discus.

I was into planted tanks too... I loved my little school of sterbai! :)

[cyberhog05]

The tetras are getting allot of the food before it settles onto the bottom of the tank is what I meant. I also have a bottom dwellers clean up crew as well. You have too!

[Yassmeena]

The tetras are getting allot of the food before it settles onto the bottom of the tank is what I meant. I also have a bottom dwellers clean up crew as well. You have too!

They do good work don't they!

Thanks for the advice everyone.

I can see the trouble I got into is that I wanted to accomplish too much given my constraints.

My dream of a beautiful planted tank (my drawing :D) would be best accomplished by establishing the planted tank first and then transferring the discus once I have gotton over all the initial CO2 management, algae and dosing issues.

So I have one part of the equation - the discus (most important of all!).

The rest will come when the time is right.......

For now, no substrate for me. I am exploring other options though... :D

[cyberhog05]

I got lucky. So far no algae problems except when I ran my 110 I had BGA. I started to get some hair algae but I bumped up the Co2 a tad and it stopped...so far!

[TankWatcher]

I loved my little school of sterbai! They're so cute, aren't they. I love them too.

[Mr Wild]

Hey Yass
Caught this thread. I will be setting up a new 4x2x2 tank over the next couple of months. Today I went and bought pots similar to Walters only not as deep. Plan on planting in them where I can have planting medium and then silica sand everywhere else. Thought I would hide the pots with some driftwood etc. Best of both worlds I can move the pots to clean, lift them out for a real big clean yet it will look planted. Kath

[Crstfr]

i have a 72 HP tank.. with discus... i have 5 discus, about to get a 6th to finish my group, 11 cardnals 15 rummies, some cories and a breeding pair of apisto's.... etc...

once you get it going... in my case, its an hour of work a week.. i do 50% weekly with the daily plant trim.. i do run CO2, and high light...

[ltgoof]

Hi Yassmeena,

I can see your frustrations, but let me share my experience on my planted discus aquarium journey.

First, don't be discouraged. It is really frustrating when things doesn't go as planned. Take it one at a time, coz sometimes you can't have them both....nice planted tank and healthy discus. The key is "Patience".

I could start my planted tank by using pressurized CO2 rightaway, dosing fertz rightaway, > 2W/g lights rigthaway.... but didn't go that route because I think there are so many variables to consider. I started with a basic lighting less than 2W/g, no CO2, no fertz, easy to grow plants.

I setup another grow-out tank, so that I wouldn't mess up my discus just incase. Don't get me wrong, I lost several discus too due to beginners mistake and some of them turned staunted. And it is very frustrating.

After 3 moths of my Low Tech expirement, most of plants grew significantly but noticed that suddenly they were dying. So I did the necessary adjustments, I started fertz (on a very low doze), increase the lighting a bit. I have encountered several algae issues too, I got BGA and brown alagae so I started dosing Excel. In short, did the necessary adjusments.

After the tank became stable, no more issues, plants are happy and doing well, that's the time I have put my discus in. At this time, my discus are in the adult stage and will be able to adjust to their new environment. And so far works for me.

Sorry for the long post, I think I have posted my journal here. I just want to share how I came up with my planted discus tank. And hoping you won't be discouraged.

Good luck!

[ltgoof]

Oh I forgot, one important tip if you don't mind me sharing my secret ;)

"Water flow"

Most hobbiest ignore the importance of water flow inside the tank.

[Yassmeena]

Oh I forgot, one important tip if you don't mind me sharing my secret ;)

"Water flow"

Most hobbiest ignore the importance of water flow inside the tank.

Hi there - thanks for the tip.

Luckily I have some experience with planted tanks. So that should come in handy when that big day comes that I decide to setup and establish a planted tank!

What does the water flow do btw? I too never gave it much thought! :confused:

[Yassmeena]

i have a 72 HP tank.. with discus... i have 5 discus, about to get a 6th to finish my group, 11 cardnals 15 rummies, some cories and a breeding pair of apisto's.... etc...

once you get it going... in my case, its an hour of work a week.. i do 50% weekly with the daily plant trim.. i do run CO2, and high light...

Sounds very nice!

[cyberhog05]

Ahhhh, I wish only an hour a week!!

Water flow is useful for me because it stirs up all the debris that would otherwise settle and allows your filters to pick it up. I use a koralia 3 for flow. I dont run it all the time though just for a while each day to stir up the nasties

[calihawker]

Oh I forgot, one important tip if you don't mind me sharing my secret ;)

"Water flow"

Most hobbiest ignore the importance of water flow inside the tank.

Could not agree more.:)


Steve

[Yassmeena]

Ahhhh, I wish only an hour a week!!

Water flow is useful for me because it stirs up all the debris that would otherwise settle and allows your filters to pick it up. I use a koralia 3 for flow. I dont run it all the time though just for a while each day to stir up the nasties

Hmmm... okay you have my attention here. Can someone elaborate in detail about this? I have NO idea ab water flow!

1 - How is water flow established?
2 - How it is used throughout the day?
3 - What role does it play in helping keep your tank clean?
4 - Do discus find it uncomfortable?

[waters10]

I think it's about getting good water circulation in the tank, making sure nutrients reach plants no matter where they are in the tank. I've seen it mentioned more on high tech tanks and people would be talking how keeping 20-30ppm of CO2 is important, but it's useless if CO2 doesn't reach all parts of the tank.