Dither fish theories?

[Schooly21]

Alright through my research I have come upon 2 different theories when it comes to dither fish. I under stand the concept, that by having them in there, it'll help keep the discus calm, understand that they see other fish around so they don't believe there is a predator near by.

The second theory I have heard was not to put any type of dither fish in with your discus because even after being in a QT they might still have some type parasite or something that then could end up killing your discus, and as it was stated, "you don't want some 3 dollar fish killing your 50 dollar fish."

My question is in your opinion what are the chances after QT that a group of dither fish, (I'm looking at rummy nose tetra) would actually get discus sick??

[Graham]

slim to none

[Scribbles]

As long as you do proper QT you should be OK.

[poconogal]

I'll ask my Rummy Noses and Discus and get back to you! ;)

Anything you put in your tank can make the inhabitants sick, whether Discus or not, even after proper QT. All depends on what the new fish may be carrying and whether the original fish have already been exposed to it or not. I've had no problems introducing new stock to existing stock after proper QT, so chances are good that there will be no issues.

[mmorris]

I would add one discus to the quarantine tank after the rummynose have spent 3 to 4 uneventful weeks in it. If the one discus is fine after a week or two, you should be safe to add the rummynose to the discus tank.

[Schooly21]

Sweet! Well thanks for the opinions!

[Eddie]

My favorite dither fish are other discus! LOL


Eddie

[Peachtree Discus]

My favorite dither fish are other discus! LOL

lol :D:D, thats definitely my favorite as well

[Graham]

Honestly these threads get boring so fast.

So like many of you - I've been keeping fish for like years now. YOu go thru Salt, African, Community, SA, CA and the list goes on in no particular order.

After a few years you begin to like loose NO fish you become so good at it.

What are the times that you introduced fish and the rest dropped dead?

I know for me it basically never happened. The closest I've come to this scenario was when I was keeping Tropheus and they caught bloat from a goby I introduced. Treated and things were fine.

I think really it boils down to the fact that Discus as well as Marine fish like Angels and Tangs cost a heck of a lot of money and let's face it - no one likes to flush $100 or $200 dollars down the toilet. I think really that is the whole backing behind QT. Really - most of the time you can completely get away with just dropping a fish into the tank. But the question of course is - who's willing to gamble that expense?

9 times out of 10 - you probably get away with just dropping the fish right in and then that tenth time you get bitten in the butt!

As for the Microscopes - some people just need to get a life LOL

How about having just paid $2000 for a koi and you put it in with another $16,000 worth of koi and it's the tenth time and it's KHV :angel:....a QT seems pretty simple.

As for scopes they make things simple and allow the right meds to be used

G

[Yassmeena]

Honestly these threads get boring so fast.

So like many of you - I've been keeping fish for like years now. YOu go thru Salt, African, Community, SA, CA and the list goes on in no particular order.

After a few years you begin to like loose NO fish you become so good at it.

What are the times that you introduced fish and the rest dropped dead?

I know for me it basically never happened. The closest I've come to this scenario was when I was keeping Tropheus and they caught bloat from a goby I introduced. Treated and things were fine.

I think really it boils down to the fact that Discus as well as Marine fish like Angels and Tangs cost a heck of a lot of money and let's face it - no one likes to flush $100 or $200 dollars down the toilet. I think really that is the whole backing behind QT. Really - most of the time you can completely get away with just dropping a fish into the tank. But the question of course is - who's willing to gamble that expense?

9 times out of 10 - you probably get away with just dropping the fish right in and then that tenth time you get bitten in the butt!

As for the Microscopes - some people just need to get a life LOL

:(:confused:

[Patr1ck]

Honestly these threads get boring so fast...


Quit reading it, or maybe, quit reading all the threads in this forum and find a new one, there's no need for posts like yours here.:thumbsup:;)

Pat

[KDodds]

Ditto on the QT. Many of the species used as "dither fish" in discus tanks are still wild caught in massive numbers, and you can count the two most popular, rummy nose and cardinal tetras, among these. Coming from different areas, usually not subjected to preventative treatments, packed in like sardines, etc., it's not difficult to see why QT is wise, even when just purchasing different species for a small community tank. You can actually try it as an experiment, with virtually guaranteed results (note pet superstores' frequency of disease upon new introduction, not even given a a chance to "get worse" thanks to the superstore). Pick a couple of species or three, SA tetras are excellent for this, especially during this (spring in the northern hemisphere) season. Buy 6 or so of each. Take half of each and combine them in one tank. Put the remaining halves in independent tanks. Most of the time what you'll see is the mixed fish getting sick and the unmixed fish remaining healthy.

[Harriett]

Tito,
"Honestly" why read them if they bore you?

I think your stats for the frequency of problems with lack of QT are very different from what many have experienced. Even if you are correct, when it happens to YOU, and it is your collection that is decimated, then it has happened 100% of THAT time.
It ain't all about the dollars either--many people on this forum are extremely attached to their fish and it is more than a financial blow when disaster strikes.
We have a lot of beginners on this forum who come to us without the vast experience you seem to have, and it makes way more sense to mentor them to 'do it by the books' with fairly assured outcomes and levels of success, than to encourage them play it fast and loose. THat is a decsion someone with way more experience and the ability to deal with the sequelae might make....or, based on their experiences, NOT.
Your post bugged me and was a disappointment to read. I bet you have lots of positive things to offer us here, since clearly you are one of the experienced aquarists?
The comment about the microscopes was just ignorant, cavalier, and disrespectful.

Harriett

[OK, Brew, let me have it for being confrontational, if you must! Best regards!]




Honestly these threads get boring so fast.

So like many of you - I've been keeping fish for like years now. YOu go thru Salt, African, Community, SA, CA and the list goes on in no particular order.

After a few years you begin to like loose NO fish you become so good at it.

What are the times that you introduced fish and the rest dropped dead?

I know for me it basically never happened. The closest I've come to this scenario was when I was keeping Tropheus and they caught bloat from a goby I introduced. Treated and things were fine.

I think really it boils down to the fact that Discus as well as Marine fish like Angels and Tangs cost a heck of a lot of money and let's face it - no one likes to flush $100 or $200 dollars down the toilet. I think really that is the whole backing behind QT. Really - most of the time you can completely get away with just dropping a fish into the tank. But the question of course is - who's willing to gamble that expense?

9 times out of 10 - you probably get away with just dropping the fish right in and then that tenth time you get bitten in the butt!

As for the Microscopes - some people just need to get a life LOL

[poconogal]

Bravo, Harriett! Well said. [Might as well let us both have it, Al]

I didn't even want to dignify the ignorant, arrogant and disrespectful post (perhaps by someone from another forum looking to start a brawl????) with an answer but clearly Tito has never had the experience of losing a tankful of Discus and how heartbreaking it can be, the monetary issue aside. Hey, a tankful of Tetras is one thing (although I value my little Tetras just as much), a tankful of Discus is another. Nor does it seem that he actually has enough experience to be knowledgeable about the many, many instances where others have gone thru this very thing, or gone thru it while having other Discus actually in QT because they had an airborne pathogen or absentmindedly stuck a finger into another tank and broke QT.


and they caught bloat from a goby I introduced
Also, how does a fish CATCH bloat from another fish????

To the original poster, QT is extremely important for both the health of your current stock, which are usually the ones that get sick, and yes, your wallet as well.

[Harriett]

Whatever your agenda, now I am bored. Keep talking shite and see how well that works out for you--there's not much audience for that on this forum. Mostly a bunch of nerdy grown ups here, I suspect.
Done.
Harriett

[poconogal]

I'm still waiting for the voice of experience to tell us exactly how a fish can CATCH bloat from another fish? Hmmmmm..... as to the rest, I'm with Harriett. If a topic bores you Tito, there's no need to be rude, arrogant and disrespectful, just leave the topic. Ta ta!

[Graham]

My comment get a life - was reference to Microscopes and not the forum. Me personally - I think the whole microscope stuff is crazy! LOL but that's just my opinion. If you want to be a nerd and use microscopes go ahead - don't let me stop you - it's your scope. Happy germing LOL LOL LOL Ignorant am I - hey whatever pleases you. LOL

Tito we just had a hobbyist on this site treating thier fish for flukes for weeks with Fluke Tabs, an organophosphate...heavy duty meds. Only to find out that the fish didn't have a parasite at all. Now if they had a scope, they would have discovered this....time to get into the 21 century old guy.

[Schooly21]

Alright, well this has evolved greatly since I last looked. We are all entitled to our own opinion, even if it is something the rest of us don't like to hear. I find it unfortunate that some people will give advice like that, but hey if anyone one this forum is remotely intelligent they will find quite quickly a comment like that is something that should have no attention payed to it.

As for a question I have,
In my 90 gal, with a school of 7 or so discus, should I have a dither fish. Understand the concept of why we keep them, is 7 enough discus to where they feel comfortable alone or not. The reason Im contemplating no putting any in is that they produce waste, and I want to limit the waste to as little as possible. What does everyone think?

[Harriett]

I don't think you NEED dither fish in your 90g. There are some who like a bit of variety in their planted discus tanks and that's when we start looking for reasonable tank mates like cards and rummynose, etc. A clean up crew, however, is more of a priority in terms of planted tank balance and health--they are more of a must do for me; I am a big fan of a school of cards or rummies, etc swimming around--I think they look great and I love the behaviour. My discus just ignore them. They are hell on wheels for eating discus eggs and fry though, so beware!
Best regards,
Harriett

[poconogal]

Besides a clean up crew, dither fish are not needed in a Discus tank. I had Discus and my clean up crew alone in the tank for quite awhile. The only reason I have Rummies and will soon have some Harlequins is that I like the look with a school or two of little fish. As far as the waste they produce, it would probably take a Rummy Nose over a week to produce what one Discus produces with a single poo.

[YSS]

QT is like having an insurance policy for just in case. You don't really need it all the time, but when things happens, you are glad you have it. I am curious, though. How many people here who buy good stock (it's always people who buy good quality stock that follows strict QT process :D and vise versa) and while in QT discover problems so you treated the problem before introducing the new fish to the existing tank? I would be interested in finding out the %. For example, I know poconogal has some nice looking discus in QT at the moment. :) How are the fish doing? I will bet if you just put them in your main tank, everything would have been fine. But again, there's that small chance something may go wrong ...

[poconogal]

QT is like having an insurance policy for just in case. You don't really need it all the time, but when things happens, you are glad you have it. I am curious, though. How many people here who buy good stock (it's always people who buy good quality stock that follows strict QT process :D and vise versa) and while in QT discover problems so you treated the problem before introducing the new fish to the existing tank? I would be interested in finding out the %. For example, I know poconogal has some nice looking discus in QT at the moment. :) How are the fish doing? I will bet if you just put them in your main tank, everything would have been fine. But again, there's that small chance something may go wrong ...
Actually, I did have to treat them, they did develop a problem. This is actually the first time this has happened, but I'd rather deal with anything in a separate QT rather than have to deal with it with all of my discus in my main tank. Oh, they are now doing very well!

[Eddie]

Again, the best dither fish are other discus. ;)

Eddie

[waters10]

Don't want to add more to this, but why don't we let the mods and admin deal with this. I don't think his post needed any reply because we all knew where it would lead to, so let's not do it the next time! (yeah, a bit late already, but there will always be another one).

[Schooly21]

Excellent! Well thanks everyone for their advice, I enjoy getting everyones opinions, on what should, or shouldn't be done. Thank you!

[Justice]

Besides a clean up crew, dither fish are not needed in a Discus tank. I had Discus and my clean up crew alone in the tank for quite awhile. The only reason I have Rummies and will soon have some Harlequins is that I like the look with a school or two of little fish. As far as the waste they produce, it would probably take a Rummy Nose over a week to produce what one Discus produces with a single poo.Great choice on the Harlequins. IMHO!

[fishman1978]

I q/t all fish now when I first started discus i lost 9 fish from one bad apple by just throwing them together.QT all new fish trust me its worth the wait

[silent_thunder]

Honestly these threads get boring so fast.

So like many of you - I've been keeping fish for like years now. YOu go thru Salt, African, Community, SA, CA and the list goes on in no particular order.

After a few years you begin to like loose NO fish you become so good at it.

What are the times that you introduced fish and the rest dropped dead?

I know for me it basically never happened. The closest I've come to this scenario was when I was keeping Tropheus and they caught bloat from a goby I introduced. Treated and things were fine.

I think really it boils down to the fact that Discus as well as Marine fish like Angels and Tangs cost a heck of a lot of money and let's face it - no one likes to flush $100 or $200 dollars down the toilet. I think really that is the whole backing behind QT. Really - most of the time you can completely get away with just dropping a fish into the tank. But the question of course is - who's willing to gamble that expense?

9 times out of 10 - you probably get away with just dropping the fish right in and then that tenth time you get bitten in the butt!

As for the Microscopes - some people just need to get a life LOL

Not all of us are as *exoerienced* as...you.

If you find it so *boring*...why are you here posting...

[Patr1ck]

Not all of us are as *exoerienced* as...you.

If you find it so *boring*...why are you here posting...

Amen!:thumbsup:

[mcsinny99]

I have mixed theories on dither fish. I have kept cardinals in a planted with discus and they got along ok, but the discus found their favorite spot hiding behind an oversize piece of driftwood. Dither or not, that's where they went.
On my new planted the only "good" hiding spot is in an eighteen inch amazon sword. these are different fish, and started coming out more, but when I feed they let the other fish eat first, which is a big difference from eating like pigs in a bare bottom, this time the dithers are white clouds.

So my theories are if they are raised with some dither fish, I think they may be helpful. If not, they may confuse the discus (at least for a while).
And basshead is right, the best dithers are more discus, lol, but I want to see his planted tank. (if you have one basshead! jk, lol)

[TankWatcher]

I agree that dithers are not necessary, but a question of personal choice (except in a planted tank, where I think a clean up crew is important).

I'm one of those that like tank mates. Much as I love my discus, I don't want a tank with only discus. I love to see my cardinals, cories, ottos & apistos mixing up the look a bit. I have some harlequins & apisto in QT now. I want to get some rummys too. Think Connie's pretty much right to say that it takes one of these little guys a week to make the same mess that a discus does in one poop.

The only dither fish I avoid are the plecos. I know lots of people love them & I think they're kind of cute too, but from what I hear they're big poopers, creating far more waste than they clean up. For that reason alone, I have avoided them.

[poconogal]

...Think Connie's pretty much right to say that it takes one of these little guys a week to make the same mess that a discus does in one poop.

The only dither fish I avoid are the plecos. I know lots of people love them & I think they're kind of cute too, but from what I hear they're big poopers, creating far more waste than they clean up. For that reason alone, I have avoided them.
Robyn, after thinking about it, it probably takes a Rummy Nose 2 weeks to make the same mess as one Discus poo, LOL!!!

That's so true about the Plecos, my 2 BNs can make so much poo! I've wondered if its worth having them, but then I realized that its easier to vaccuum up their poo than to wipe the brown diatoms off everying in the whole tank. Something about the well water here, still getting the brown after years... and the BNs love it!

[plecocicho]

DO NOT KEEP WHITE ClOUD MINNOWS WITH DISCUS!!! Sorry to shout but that is pure animal cruelty because white clod minows are cold water species with prefered temperature of 18-22 degrees celzius.

[poconogal]

DO NOT KEEP WHITE ClOUD MINNOWS WITH DISCUS!!! Sorry to shout but that is pure animal cruelty because white clod minows are cold water species with prefered temperature of 18-22 degrees celzius.
Yes, they are cold water fish. I used to keep them in water in the high 60s. Discus temps must be torture for them...

[TankWatcher]

Connie, glad to hear that the BN are earning their keep in your tank. Not having to deal with the brown diatoms would make the cleaning up worth it.

[Roxanne]

What's a dither fish?:D...I'm serious guys...

[TankWatcher]

I've not really heard the term before in relation to discus, but hear it a lot when dealing with either a timid fish like apistogramma, or depending upon their mood, an agressive fish like apistogramma.

They serve a couple of purposes:-

1. If small tank mates are openly swimming around, the timid fish will decide that there are no predators & all is safe. Therefore, the timid fish will be more likely to venture out & about the tank

2. If the agressive fish is spending too much time beating up his partner or is not forming a proper bond with his partner, the dither fish a) gives him something else to chase instead of his partner and/or b) sometimes unites a pair as they team up to protect their terriroty or fry

Not sure this really applies to discus, as I find my discus ignore other fish (unless those other fish are small enough to fit in their mouth).

[Eddie]

Not sure this really applies to discus, as I find my discus ignore other fish (unless those other fish are small enough to fit in their mouth).

Very true Robyn, also...if a discus needs a dither fish...its an ill fish.

Eddie

[mcsinny99]

DO NOT KEEP WHITE ClOUD MINNOWS WITH DISCUS!!! Sorry to shout but that is pure animal cruelty because white clod minows are cold water species with prefered temperature of 18-22 degrees celzius.

Hmm, they are breeding. Can't be that "tortured".

[poconogal]

Hmm, they are breeding. Can't be that "tortured".

Since they're very hardy little fish, they are surviving, but that doesn't mean they are being kept properly. Would you put Goldfish in with your Discus?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Cloud_Mountain_minnow

Although the normal temperature range of the species in the wild is 18–26 °C (64–72 °F), it can survive water temperatures down to 5°C (41°F).[3] This makes it an ideal fish for keeping in an unheated aquarium in cold climates. In fact, White Clouds are more active and healthy at temperatures lower than most tropical tanks are kept.