Eye problem?

[mugzy213]

hey guys, I woke this morning and I noticed one of my discus has an eye that looks like it's growing?

I have a 40 gal with 2 discus total.

Any ideas? Some said to add salt? How much and should I take the other female discus out?

Thanks for all your help!

[DiscusDude85]

Growing? Does it look like its popping out of the socket? Does it look like that? http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/disease_medications/internal/bloat_dropsy_popeye.shtml


When was your last water change? Can you tell us your water conditions Ammonia? Ph? Nitrite? Nitrate?



Joe

[mugzy213]

yeah popping out of it socket... all my levels are good 30% every day

any ideas I totally new to this and any help you unstress me! :)

[Eddie]

yeah popping out of it socket... all my levels are good 30% every day

any ideas I totally new to this and any help you unstress me! :)

I read recently that a member had success using Maracyn Plus. ;)


Eddie

[mugzy213]

I read recently that a member had success using Maracyn Plus. ;)


Eddie

thanks Eddie:)

I have 2 discus in a 40 gal tank can I use the maracly plus with both fish? the other one is a female that can only be with the sick male.

I have a 10 gal but its not set up...

[mugzy213]

ohhh yeah here's a pic..

[rickztahone]

although you say your water is fine you mind sharing the numbers? i ask because water is usually an indicator which can easily be fixed with large WC's

[mugzy213]

ok i just did a 50% water change and here are my levels...

nitrite o

nitrAte = 0

pH = 7.0 - 7.2 (i use r/o water aged 1 day + add minerals)

ammonia = 0

I just went and bought some maracyn 2 getting ready to put it in...

you have another idea?

im pretty new to discus so any help I would LOVE!

[ShinShin]

Internal bacterial infections can cause a fluid build-up in whatever area if manifests. It is very possible for an infection in the internal facial-head area to cause fluid build-up to force the eye out of the socket. It happened to me once, and water was not an issue, as in your case. Kanamyacin cured my discus.

Mat

[poconogal]

How long has this tank been set up? You posted 0 NitrAte. If your tank is fully cycled you would show nitrAte especially since you were previously doing only 30% WCs. NitrAte is the end result of your biofilter's job. What type of test kits are you using and how old are they?

[mugzy213]

im using a fresh water master kit... I just bought it yesterday. is there a better one out there?

honestly I feel like im guessing...the test gives me a color chart and it seems like it never really matches?

relooking at my NitrAte card it goes from yellow to orange. when i ran the test it was just yellow? ill re run it again... the nitrate test seems to be the most complicated! (more steps involved)


thanks

[poconogal]

The FW master test kit, is that by API? They have an expiration date, located on the front of the bottle. The last 4 numbers is the date of manufacture and they are good for 4 years after that, but I'd only go as far as 2 or 3 years past that date. I found this out from the manufacturer. I use API test kits myself.

Did you just set this tank up recently?

[mugzy213]

yeah it is api.. date 11-07 here is a pic of the test I jsut ran.

yeah I just set it up... I set it up on Sunday. so 5 days

i bought a guys setup... I took all his water and spounge filters. Probably where the pop came from? so hopefully every thing staied the same...

so last night i did a 50% water change and added maracyn 2 woke this morning and no real change.. when should i start to see a change? I know it says not to do a water change but should I? should i add aquarium salt to the tank as well?

thanks

[poconogal]

You can do a daily 50% WC then redose the meds. I would actually use Maracyn and Maracyn 2 together, one treats gram positive and the other treats gram negative bacteria and they are designed to work together. You can add salt but I don't know that it will help in any way. It may take a few days to see results. I have my doubts about your tank having a cycle though, even though you took the guy's sponges since you show no nitrate. Sometimes it dies when transferred. (It happened to me personally). Since this is a newly set up tank where the bio may have taken a hit, please monitor your water carefully, at least twice a day.

[Roxanne]

when you say you took his water, do you mean his dirty tankwater?

...make sure you give the bottles a really good shake before you use them...the nitrate tester needs to be jiggled for a while longer than the others to get a really accurate reading...

Also, you tested your water after a WC....Try testing before you do a WC...and post the results here;)

Roxanne:)

[mugzy213]

hey guys im using maracyn 2 right now... (2nd of 5 day) (not any better)

if that doesnt work is this the right kind of Kanamyacin?


thanks again...

[mugzy213]

so Its third day of treatment and not any worse but not any better...

im using maracyn 2 now. I have a forty gallon so I put in 4 packets per day, If I were to use maracyn 1 as well do I just split the dose between the 2? so 2 packets of maracyn1 and maracyn2?


thanks:confused:

[Eddie]

so Its third day of treatment and not any worse but not any better...

im using maracyn 2 now. I have a forty gallon so I put in 4 packets per day, If I were to use maracyn 1 as well do I just split the dose between the 2? so 2 packets of maracyn1 and maracyn2?


thanks:confused:

You can use them both at the same time. Dose the required amount for the size of the tank (gallons).

Eddie

[mugzy213]

Hey guys,

Ok I have just finished the maraclyn 1 & 2. His eye is still big, but clear. Do you guys have any idea on what to do next? It hasn't gotten any worse, maybe a little improvement if not the same. :confused:

Thanks

[rickztahone]

Hey guys,

Ok I have just finished the maraclyn 1 & 2. His eye is still big, but clear. Do you guys have any idea on what to do next? It hasn't gotten any worse, maybe a little improvement if not the same. :confused:

Thanks

do you have carbon in your filters?

[mugzy213]

No I do not. I did buy some to get the meds out but have not used them yet.

[ShinShin]

Yes, that's the stuff.

Mat

[TankWatcher]

If the eye isn't better, I was wondering if you can get Waterlife products over there? For some reason, I thought that you can't, but not sure. I had same problem & Myxazin by Waterlife seemed to do the trick.

[mugzy213]

Ok thanks. I'll try and find it over the Internet. Our pet stores here in Washington suck for getting medication.


Thanks.

[Scribbles]

You might try calling Denny's Pet World in Kirkland. They're right off 405. They used to have a pretty good med section and if you call they will check to see if they have it in stock so that you don't make a wasted trip.

Chris

[mugzy213]

do you guys think a salt dip would do any thing to help the eye? Just wanted to know if I should try salt before I add more medication...

thanks again..

[Muzammil]

Hi!

What is your tank temperature?


Muzammil

[mugzy213]

it keeps moving from 82-85.. i cant seem to keep it at a set 82.. any ideas?

do you think that may be a reason?

[Muzammil]

I would suggest to raise the temp. using a thermostate.
I have cured this problem by gradually raising the temp. to 33 degree centigrade and keeping at their for atleast five days. But I would also suggest to add extra air stone for optimum aeration and low feeding i.e only once a day with good quality FBS or FBW. And before treatment do a 100% w/c. This is what worked for me and hope it will work for u.


Good Luck
Muzammil

[mugzy213]

I would suggest to raise the temp. using a thermostate.
I have cured this problem by gradually raising the temp. to 33 degree centigrade and keeping at their for atleast five days. But I would also suggest to add extra air stone for optimum aeration and low feeding i.e only once a day with good quality FBS or FBW. And before treatment do a 100% w/c. This is what worked for me and hope it will work for u.


Good Luck
Muzammil

so you think I should justt add salt and turn up the heat or add a medication with the heat?

[TankWatcher]

Yes, I think you should try salt first. It will work in some cases. I tried salt before I moved on to meds.

[Roxanne]

...put another heater in the tank with yours, on the opposite side and you will get more even temp around the whole tank....how bigs your tank?...and what wattage is your heater?...if it's too small for the tank size you will never get even temp...:)...it's always good to keep a spare heater around anyway, in case 1 craps itself

Roxanne

[mugzy213]

man trying to buy fish meds is crazy! only uk?

tried to order Myxazin by Waterlife online no go! (im kinda clueless on what to try next):(

I went to a LFS and he said its probably gas in his eye...??? He said I should give him frozen brine shrimp to help it. does that sound like a possible idea?

guess ill try a salt dip...

thanks for you help though:)

[mugzy213]

after looking at another web site for fish. I came across this.

This is called "Pop-Eye", and is caused by a gram-positive bacteria that affects the kidney.

Treatment: Treat the fish with Erythromycin Powder for a ten day treatment.


So if, pop eye is gram positive and I used maraclyn 1 and 2 doesn't that cover the gram nagtive and positive?

so does that mean its not pop eye?

have you guys heard of Erythromycin? is it different? is Fish Mycin the same thing?

I have just ordered Kanamyacin on amazon its called kanaplex hope it works..

another guy told me just to do big water changes everyday and it will fix it self.

I have way to much info I think im trying to do to much!:)

[TankWatcher]

man trying to buy fish meds is crazy! only uk?
tried to order Myxazin by Waterlife online no go!Sorry, I had a feeling you couldn't get it in USA, but just wasn't sure on that. Other than salt, I don't know what to suggest as the meds you have are different to the ones I can access.

[mugzy213]

Sorry, I had a feeling you couldn't get it in USA, but just wasn't sure on that. Other than salt, I don't know what to suggest as the meds you have are different to the ones I can access.

thank tankwatcher...

Yeah I talked to a LFS guy and he said people were talking fish meds and using them to get high... thats why he said they were pulled off the shelfs.

[Eddie]

Maracyn 1 treats gram-positive so it is similar to Erythromycin. Big WCs can definitely help.


Eddie

[ShinShin]

If you have an internal bacterial infection, all the WC's in the world will not take care of it or even help it. Kanamyacin worked for my experience with my yellow discus. Erythromyacin may work as well. Too many people think that this condition is strictly a water quality issue. It is not always.

Mat

[TankWatcher]

Yeah I talked to a LFS guy and he said people were talking fish meds and using them to get high... thats why he said they were pulled off the shelfs :thumbsdown: Crazy. They ruin it for the rest of us. Good luck with treatment.

[Muzammil]

so you think I should justt add salt and turn up the heat or add a medication with the heat?


Yes, for the very first attemp heat will work. But if you really want to add meds then I will suggest Erythromycin.


Muzammil

[mugzy213]

as of 4-20 he has stopped eating:(

is this the beginning of the end?

this sucks... any last idea?

i feel so bad for the guy.

[Eddie]

as of 4-20 he has stopped eating:(

is this the beginning of the end?

this sucks... any last idea?

i feel so bad for the guy.

No, it is not the end. A fish can go a long time without eating depending on the initial condition. Your fish looks fat and healthy. I am sure it will be fine. Many times fish go off their food when treating with antibiotics. Finish the treatment out and then when its all done, hit the fish with specific foods to entice him to eat. Also, after treatment, the heat can be raised a little to bring on the fishes appetite. Don't worry too much.

Eddie

[mugzy213]

Here is an update...

I have him in a QT now. and have him on meds...

it seem like the good eye is getting smaller? does that make sence?

the bad eye seems to be little better. the eye is very clear.

I see if I can get a good picture...

[Eddie]

Here is an update...

I have him in a QT now. and have him on meds...

it seem like the good eye is getting smaller? does that make sence?

the bad eye seems to be little better. the eye is very clear.

I see if I can get a good picture...

Sounds great! Good news

Maybe they had bulging eyes all along and now they are going back to normal size!

Eddie

[mugzy213]

eddie


it's hard to get a good pic.

the good eye look really small... it almosts looks to small? does that seem normal?

looking at all my other discus they all seem to have big eyes just not bulging out?

[Eddie]

eddie


it's hard to get a good pic.

the good eye look really small... it almosts looks to small? does that seem normal?

looking at all my other discus they all seem to have big eyes just not bulging out?

Not sure, never heard of it before. :confused:

Eddie

[mugzy213]

this is the best pictures i could take.

he doesnt seem to be doing very well.

do you see those holes? man im really starting to think he is not going to make it...

could he be blind in the small eye?

[Eddie]

Dude, I can't see anything from those pictures. They are too blurry. :(

Eddie

[mugzy213]

yeah i know... those were the best i could take...
I know they suck! sorry

thanks for looking tho!

[mugzy213]

ok I got a better camera:)


I hope this helps:)

do you think that the small eye looks weird?

what are those things that look like holes?

the fish is on penicillin which I got from a LFS...

the dose is one pill every 4 days and I am right in the middle of the 7 pill treatment.

I can't say that I see any improvment?

should I stop?

[Eddie]

Did you use Maracyn Plus?

Eddie

[mugzy213]

Did you use Maracyn Plus?

Eddie

i could not get it... so i went a kinda of the wall fish store and he said that what he was giving me was way stronger than maracyn plus...

[Roxanne]

...the fishes right eye is definately exopthalmic, Shin Shin Larry is right...culprit is bacteria

what are you feeding them?

and what's written on the bottle of meds you got?

[mugzy213]

...the fishes right eye is definately exopthalmic, Shin Shin Larry is right...bacteria

what are you feeding them?

I feed them Frozen blood worms and hikari Discus Bio gold

shin shin? what does that mean?

the LFS gave me 7 pills. He gave to me the meds out of his stash... he told me one pill every 4 days...

[Roxanne]

...shin shin means good luck in Chinese :D:D.....made me LMAO..sorry....Shin Larry Matincheck...Discus University....Simply Guru...he has many names so we all sort of make up something we remember...sorry...that was funny..


where were we?...oh yes...his STASH???? Can you ask him what's in his "stash"? You said Penicillin? That's for bacteria I think???someone???

can you add more variety to their diet and less bloodworms? the holes will heal if the diet improves....

[mugzy213]

...shin shin means good luck in Chinese :D:D.....made me LMAO..sorry....Shin Larry Matinchek...Discus University....Simply Guru...he has many names so we all sort of make up something we remember...sorry...that was funny..


where were we?...oh yes...his STASH???? Can you ask him what's in his "stash"? You said Penicillin? That's for bacteria I think???someone???

can you add more variety to their diet and less bloodworms? the holes will heal if the diet improves....

yeah penicillin...

So would you agree its not pop eye? what should i try next?

what else should i feed them?

[Roxanne]

it has pop eye which IME sometimes responds to anti bacterial meds, or in my case by fluke I found tetracycline worked, not that you should stop what you are doing...if the medication is making it better that's good, but the holes are a different issue...the holes are caused by not enough nutrients in the diet or nutrients not being absorbed from the diet, the last one can be caused by worms....but, first things first...you need someone better with meds to see this and advise but don't change anything until you get that advice...

Eddie can tell ya how to make his famous/infamous seafood mix...apparently very stinky & delicious...where's the link Eddie???...I personally do a little medly of everything/anything in the freezer/cupboard so they don't get used to any one thing...Connie gives hers bananas, think Eddie does too, but again, stinky ones:D...check out the nutrition section on the forum, loads of ideas

[mugzy213]

it has pop eye which IME sometimes responds to anti bacterial meds, or in my case by fluke I found tetracycline worked, not that you should stop what you are doing...if the medication is making it better that's good, but the holes are a different issue...the holes are caused by not enough nutrients in the diet or nutrients not being absorbed from the diet, the last one can be caused by worms....but, first things first...you need someone better with meds to see this and advise but don't change anything until you get that advice...

Eddie can tell ya how to make his famous/infamous seafood mix...apparently very stinky & delicious...where's the link Eddie???...I personally do a little medly of everything/anything in the freezer/cupboard so they don't get used to any one thing...Connie gives hers bananas, think Eddie does too, but again, stinky ones:D...check out the nutrition section on the forum, loads of ideas


thanks...:) he has stopped eating do you think thats way the holes are there?

[Roxanne]

...stopped eating since when? during the treatment?

[TankWatcher]

the fish is on penicillin which I got from a LFS...Wow, you can get penicillin from LFS in the USA?????

Sorry this is still ongoing for you. I hope this works out well in the end, but have no more advice I can think of right now. That doesn't mean that no-one else will - so don't take my lack of knowledge as a gloom & doom comment, 'cause it's not.

Here's a link to Eddie's seafood mix. http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=68857
(Rox - my mix has bananas too & is very stinky :D - I blame all the fresh garlic in it )

[mugzy213]

...stopped eating since when? during the treatment?

yeah I moved him to a QT and started treatment last friday and barely eats.. he may eat little just not in front of me...

[Roxanne]

compared to how the eyes were, are they worse, better, or no difference?

[mugzy213]

Wow, you can get penicillin from LFS in the USA?????

Sorry this is still ongoing for you. I hope this works out well in the end, but have no more advice I can think of right now. That doesn't mean that no-one else will - so don't take my lack of knowledge as a gloom & doom comment, 'cause it's not.

Here's a link to Eddie's seafood mix. http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=68857
(Rox - my mix has bananas too & is very stinky :D - I blame all the fresh garlic in it )


yeah I call a milion and a half stores and I found one. it was called the "little amazon." he has a ton of discus:)

But that doesnt seems to be working:(

do you guys think that there is something wrong with the other eye as well? or could he just be stonned?

[mugzy213]

compared to how the eyes were, are they worse, better, or no difference?

the big eye seems to be alittle better. very little, but the good eye seems to small? what do you think. you can really see it in the 2nd picture with the white back round

[Roxanne]

is it my eye sight or is that smaller eye kinda shrunk & sultana ish looking?

Does that smaller eye follow movement?

[mugzy213]

is it my eye sight or is that smaller eye kinda shrunk & sultana ish looking?

Does that smaller eye follow movement?

yes it has shrunk and it does seem to follow movement. do you think he could be high on drugs? have you heard of that before?

[Roxanne]

I haven't seen that extreme kind of 'stretching' in my fishes eyes, I'm guessing it could be a little stretched from being inflamed...if there is no clouding of the eye, it might be ok...the iris is a little "bent"....If I ask enough questions, the 'Simply discus doctors' can diagnose & prescribe...

Shin Larry might check back in here and have a look...;)

[mugzy213]

I haven't seen that extreme kind of 'stretching' in my fishes eyes, I'm guessing it could be a little stretched from being inflamed...if there is no clouding of the eye, it might be ok...the iris is a little "bent"....If I ask enough questions, the 'Simply discus doctors' can diagnose & prescribe...

Shin Larry might check back in here and have a look...;)

Man, I feel so bad for him... I feel like im slowing watching him die.

:(

thanks for you help Rox:)

[Roxanne]

...:oyeah, I know how you feel...I'm so sorry I can't be a help to you, you have already started medication and swapping it around isn't a good idea unless someone who really knows medicines enough tells you to do it..finish the medication as you were told by the wacky sounding LFS dude(with the "stash":D), unless someone here tells you different...and keep updating so we can see what's going on ok?

Roxanne

[mugzy213]

I just went back to the LFS and showed him the picture that I posted yesterday and he think he's fine. Do you agree? Hmmm???

[Roxanne]

hmmm...compare him to your other fish and you tell me:)....not being doom and gloom if the fish is ok, but you pointed stuff out and I could see what you meant...I wonder what Discus University would say about the eyes if they were rating the fish:confused:...the eyes are :confused: but they may work just fine if ya know what I'm sayin? my gold's eyes stuck out for months and even now I wonder if they are "right" cos they certainly ain't perfect...

[mugzy213]

Yeah I think I'm more worried about the non popeye eye. To me it seems like it shrank? I guess I'll finish the meds and put him back. And cross my fingers:)

[Roxanne]

Here's something for comparison....Exopthalmic Calypso on the left, her normal sister on the right....

[darksinister]

Hey, i had this problem about 3-4 days ago...I treated it with FURAN-2 and it worked immediately. I would suggest to put table spoon(per 10g)of aquarium salt into your qt tank. My discus is recovering very well....hes probably recovered 75% out of a 100 (3rd day). But i just notice white poop coming out =/... Good luck! You can also get maracyn-two at petco, it works wonders as well.

[mugzy213]

Hey, i had this problem about 3-4 days ago...I treated it with FURAN-2 and it worked immediately. I would suggest to put table spoon(per 10g)of aquarium salt into your qt tank. My discus is recovering very well....hes probably recovered 75% out of a 100 (3rd day). But i just notice white poop coming out =/... Good luck! You can also get maracyn-two at petco, it works wonders as well.

thanks!

I have tryied maracyn 1 and 2 with no success:(

He is on penicellin right now... which is a pretty stong medication.

[mugzy213]

Here's something for comparison....Exopthalmic Calypso on the left, her normal sister on the right....

hey rox what type of discus are those?

[Roxanne]

...Unofficially, I call them my "Rod Lewis Specials"...but they are really 'golds'...

Cute huh?....(Calypso is the favourite of 16 I have...quite a high ranking:))...I'd love to have her judged by the SD University guys, but the eyes will lose her points:o

She's much better now than in that pic, yet, I haven't seen her eat in months:confused:....I'd hate to lose that fish, but she hangs in there for me..I'll update her eye pics when I can get a decent shot..

How is yours doing today?

Roxanne

[Roxanne]

Hey, i had this problem about 3-4 days ago...I treated it with FURAN-2 and it worked immediately. I would suggest to put table spoon(per 10g)of aquarium salt into your qt tank. My discus is recovering very well....hes probably recovered 75% out of a 100 (3rd day). But i just notice white poop coming out =/... Good luck! You can also get maracyn-two at petco, it works wonders as well.

Hi DS:)

I'm really happy for you that those meds worked...I really want to get to the bottom of this thing cos it seems there are a few causes, the worst I won't mention, and a couple of different treatments have worked for different people. It seems to still be a hit & miss area of the hobby though and I think it would be great if we can investigate this type of thing as a group and try and nail the culprit/s. It's distressing when you think your fishes eyes are going to pop out of their sockets and nothing seems to be working...Some have had success with anti bacterial meds, I had more success with anti biots....the maracyn worked for you, but not for Mugz...

Roxanne

[mugzy213]

Hey rox,

Just an update:).

He is eating now! The eye with pop eye is not as swollin. The other still remains sultan looking and still seems to be small still. He has one more pill to go and I'm going to put him back with his mate. (she misses him).

How would you advise moving him? Should I wait a couple day after the meds? Or is it safe just to move back in the big tank?

Also I have a spounge filter in there is it safe to move it back. Or is it bad because all of the meds that it has in it?

Thanks:)

[Roxanne]

Thats great news he is eating...

I'd wait a day after the last dose, but that's just me....when you move him back, make sure the temp & ph are close as possible, and do the "drop & plop"...is ph very different in those 2 tanks?

Again just me, but I'd ditch the QT media and start fresh so you are not transferring any nasties back into your main tank...they tend to "lurk"...

[mugzy213]

Yeah the ph is different because I have to change the water in the QT every 4 day. But I will watch it before the tranfer. Would you throw out the sponge filter also?

The only media I have are ball and floss. What other media do you use in your tanks?

[Roxanne]

Yeah the ph is different because I have to change the water in the QT every 4 day. But I will watch it before the tranfer. Would you throw out the sponge filter also?
?

You could do a drip acclimatisation if you want him back in there sooner...do you know how to do that?

Sponge filter as in air driven or sponge in a filter...??



...

The only media I have are ball and floss. What other media do you use in your tanks?

balls & floss...only..;)

[mugzy213]

You could do a drip acclimatisation if you want him back in there sooner...do you know how to do that?

Sponge filter as in air driven or sponge in a filter...??




balls & floss...only..;)

No I don't know how to do a drip thing. I check the ph and it's 6.0 in the qt.
And 6.8 in main tank

Ohh a spounge air driven filter:)

How should I do the drip thing:)

[Roxanne]

You could just empty water from the QT and replace with the tank water he is going into slowly over the space of an hour or two, take a jug full out, add a jug full of main tank water back to the QT and repeat this over an hour or two until there is mostly main tank water in his QT...as he is going to a higher PH it won't be hard on him...then net him out and plop him into the main tank...

I have a new policy that when I use a sponge filter for a QT, it is discarded after treatment..this is only really viable if you have others cycling so that you always have one ready for a QT...another way is to throw a new one into the main tank and then you have a spare, however should you need that spare before it is cycled, you will have a problem..I am also going to be replacing my sponge filters every now and then with clean cycled ones...this is a personal choice but based on my observations of how bugs can get around...it's your choice to keep it or throw it....if you are going to keep it, I'd give it a really really good squeeze out and rinse in clean dechlored water first...

Roxanne

[TankWatcher]

Glad things are looking up for you & your fish

If you want to save the sponge on your sponge filter, you can either boil it for a few minutes (remove any plastic parts first of course & wash them well) or else there is a sterilisation product you can get for this purpose. I use it for any equipement I have used in a QT that was used for a sick fish. Everthing is soaked in the solution & then it should be safe for re-use.

Naturally all your good bacteria is now dead, but you haven't had to throw anything out.

I've learnt it's not a bad plan to always have spare sponge filters cycling away in known healthy tanks.